Topic: Why Ripple has failed. (Read 10880 times)
wow nice necro, im a necromancer myself so let me help you out
i had to bump this thread to remind everyone how much of a failure this piece of shit ripple is.
katz is a clown.
hearn is a dbag.
ripple is a scam.
thanks for taking my fucking wallet and turning it over to a bunch of KYC assholes who are now holding it hostage for personal information.
o wait! nevermind. they are only worth $0.006
keep 'em.
wasn't that the plan?
Ripple hasn't failed, ripple is the future and my investments will be soon converted in XRP.
Check the article here http://www.cryptobang.com/2014/09/03/ripple-just-another-scam/
It contains more info about ripple
"Info", seriously? It's just spin. For example, your first point:It contains more info about ripple
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In order to get involved in Ripple community, you have to have a friend in the network. Either the creators were dreaming about some kind of wannabe secret society either they do not know how this limits the involvement.
OMG! Dollars are a scam because in order to get dollars, you have to get them from someone who has them!
Your only actual argument seems to be that there's indirect trust in Ripple, except there isn't.
Check the article here http://www.cryptobang.com/2014/09/03/ripple-just-another-scam/
It contains more info about ripple
It contains more info about ripple
One problem I see with Ripple, is that common people will not understand Ripple, therefore are unlikely to see any reason to use it.
Because of this, therefore Ripple will spend an awful lot of energies trying to explain to people, and people will still go away shaking their heads not knowing what you are talking about.
I also think that 'Ripple' was given some money to advertise and push this stuff on us, and if that money dries up, then ripple will just dissappear and go away, and the people here will continue to mine and be interested in crypto-coins and eventually we will all forget about 'Ripple'.
Oh please, even kids understand how Ripple works:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7lbBV8Y8xs
I can see now what the real benefits of this quasi-Ripple is, and wish them luck in their goals. There are externalities that are going to make these goals very hard to achieve. They are discussed in length by TradeFortress and QuantPlus, but I don't have much interest in the subject.
I only mention it because anyone that buys XRP or invests in Ripple Labs should consider those problems very seriously.
$3 million worth of investors, including Google Venture has considered them and backed it. I'll take their word for it over a couple of dime a dozen Ripple haters.
Ripple's success is inevitable simply because it works and it's scalable, unlike Bitcoin. The future is not in the continued attempts to destroy Ripple...those attempts have failed miserably. Rather, the future is in solving the flaws that Ripple may have, just as Ripple has solved the flaws that Bitcoin has. Natural progression. Ripple represents a huge step forward. Let's continue to move forward and not backwards. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water, let's work together as a crypto community to make it better for all. Thus providing a stronger and more adoptable crypto infrastructure. And I'm betting that in a scenario as such, that the value of Bitcoin is going to skyrocket because more people will have access to it and become exposed to its benefits. So for those that love Bitcoin but hate Ripple, you really are cutting your own nose off despite your faces, by impeding the very thing that will make your own crypto portfolios, more valuable.
...community credit. That's an idea from the past. Maybe it will become the future one day but for now, it is totally irrelevant and IMO shouldn't be promoted in any way, shape, form or fashion.
Other than the portion I crossed out, I totally agree.(
)People tend to overvalue the skepticism of Bitcoiners. Sure, it resonates on a Bitcoin forum but out of 7 billion people on the planet, these critics will largely go unheard and thus irrelevant.
That's not what I meant by skepticism. I was referring to the fact that people couldn't naively rely on automatically trading debt aggregates by being Liquidity Providers. That they have to rely on standard market orders/sells, like any other debt marketplace.What they will know, is it's cheaper to use XYZ gateway over Paypal, Xoom, Dwolla and the likes.
What makes it different though is that the cost for entering the system as a liquidity provider is basically zero.
I can see now what the real benefits of this quasi-Ripple is, and wish them luck in their goals. There are externalities that are going to make these goals very hard to achieve. They are discussed in length by TradeFortress and QuantPlus, but I don't have much interest in the subject.I only mention it because anyone that buys XRP or invests in Ripple Labs should consider those problems very seriously.
1.) JoelKatz all but admitted that the original Ripple idea (Community Credit/Liquidity Providers/Web of Trust) has been almost entirely discarded. That tiny portion which remains only exists to facilitate some obscure niche by a specialized user base.
This is a good thing. This complicates the message, brings discussions of trust lines and "Rippling" to the forefront when it's totally unnecessary, given the majority of the worlds population is not ready for community credit. That's an idea from the past. Maybe it will become the future one day but for now, it is totally irrelevant and IMO shouldn't be promoted in any way, shape, form or fashion.
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2.) Because skepticism is necessarily pervasive in the Ripple network -the users need to be active market participants rather than passive "Liquidity Providers"- the average user is likely not to find anything particularly intriguing about putting their money into it. Hence why JoelKatz suggests that Ripple could very well end up as a Gateway/Market Maker only network.
People tend to overvalue the skepticism of Bitcoiners. Sure, it resonates on a Bitcoin forum but out of 7 billion people on the planet, these critics will largely go unheard and thus irrelevant. Ripple is a gateway/market maker network. That's what it's for or at least, that's the purpose it best serves. As I said previously, MOST users will never even know they are using Ripple, nor will they care to know.
What they will know, is it's cheaper to use XYZ gateway over Paypal, Xoom, Dwolla and the likes. And soon, they will know the freedom to be able to send balances between major banks and other major gateways, in seconds and for virtually nothing. Just as the federation of email has changed the way we communicate, Ripple will change the way send and receive currency, how we bank and how we think about currency in general.
Well, to be fair Bitcoin also is not really used as a currency at all - rather as a digital asset ("electronic gold"). Still both in Bitcoin and Ripple the possibility exists to use them in the originally planned/intended way. There is a cluster of accounts that are heavily interlinked for example and that most likely belong to the RippleClassic userbase. Just because new users choose not to use this model, does not mean it is not supported any more. It is a less likely use case though I admit and I personally also think Ripple will grow more by being something like the e-mail of payment systems (which also means that there will be huge mail providers like gmail or hotmail) rather than hawala 2.0.
With 2) I agree to some degree - it is a chicken-egg problem (if there is low liquidity, the system is not very interesting - see the trolling of QuantPlus leading to even lower liquidity etc.). What makes it different though is that the cost for entering the system as a liquidity provider is basically zero. Starting from BTC you can trade to nearly any IOU on the market and start to make that market. You do not have to have an order of at least 10000USD to hedge towards the Euro, you can just provide a single dollar and try to beat larger players by a tiny margin over time. I would also love to see easier options to market make (if you do trust more than 1 gateway especially in one currency, after all this means you are basically making money), but on the other hand this also enables more savy people in the meantime to get some nice profits.
With 2) I agree to some degree - it is a chicken-egg problem (if there is low liquidity, the system is not very interesting - see the trolling of QuantPlus leading to even lower liquidity etc.). What makes it different though is that the cost for entering the system as a liquidity provider is basically zero. Starting from BTC you can trade to nearly any IOU on the market and start to make that market. You do not have to have an order of at least 10000USD to hedge towards the Euro, you can just provide a single dollar and try to beat larger players by a tiny margin over time. I would also love to see easier options to market make (if you do trust more than 1 gateway especially in one currency, after all this means you are basically making money), but on the other hand this also enables more savy people in the meantime to get some nice profits.
Perhaps credit cards will one day be called Ripple Cards
Eh?Look, setting aside that Ripple has enormous difficulties to overcome before it can work as now intended, even if they manage it there will be virtually no difference observed by average folk other than they will be able to use their particular currency in more places.
I feel like Ripple users read this thread and don't understand a couple key points;
1.) JoelKatz all but admitted that the original Ripple idea (Community Credit/Liquidity Providers/Web of Trust) has been almost entirely discarded. That tiny portion which remains only exists to facilitate some obscure niche by a specialized user base.
2.) Because skepticism is necessarily pervasive in the Ripple network -the users need to be active market participants rather than passive "Liquidity Providers"- the average user is likely not to find anything particularly intriguing about putting their money into it. Hence why JoelKatz suggests that Ripple could very well end up as a Gateway/Market Maker only network.
Taking a glance at their website today you can see that their bellicose far-reaching claims have been tempered severely, but it seems a lot of the veteran Ripple fans didn't get the memo.
right, I believe that's what Ripple's gonna do.
American Granny has a PayPal account, logs in as usual and sends money to an email address [email protected]
She doesn't know or need to know that grandson doesn't even have a PayPal account. Grandson has a MtGox account however. Ripple does all the magic inbetween.
American Granny has a PayPal account, logs in as usual and sends money to an email address [email protected]
She doesn't know or need to know that grandson doesn't even have a PayPal account. Grandson has a MtGox account however. Ripple does all the magic inbetween.
One problem I see with Ripple, is that common people will not understand Ripple, therefore are unlikely to see any reason to use it.
Because of this, therefore Ripple will spend an awful lot of energies trying to explain to people, and people will still go away shaking their heads not knowing what you are talking about.
"Common people" don't need to understand Ripple. "Common people" don't understand HTTP OR SMTP but they do understand how their browser and email client works. Same is true for Ripple. It's the gateways people will need to understand. Those providing feature sets that rival current systems like Paypal and online banking, will likely be successful. Most "common" users will never own a Ripple wallet or even know they are using Ripple. "Granny" only cares that she can send and receive money from A to B simply, quickly, safely and cost effectively. As long as the network, works...the rest is on the gateways.
Fair enough. It won't raise adoption in and of itself, but simplification is the key to mass adoption of the network.
We're testing the system while they create it, so yeah, there will not only be unnecessarily complicated hoops to jump through, but also bugs along the way. Perhaps credit cards will one day be called Ripple Cards, who knows how the adoption stage will kick in, but what is currently available, is one of the most aesthetically pleasing, mathematically secure payment networks ever created.
They just added the email bridge recently that allows you to send a payment to an email address rather than a Ripple Wallet address. Changes like this will be added periodically which will raise adoption rates by orders of magnitude. Once enough improvements are made, it will simply integrate into everyday life running on whatever financial instrument we use most, and even if people aren't fully aware they are using it, Ripple will probably be the underlying system it is running on.
i would say that "Changes like this will be added periodically which will raise the potential for adoption rates by orders of magnitude." They just added the email bridge recently that allows you to send a payment to an email address rather than a Ripple Wallet address. Changes like this will be added periodically which will raise adoption rates by orders of magnitude. Once enough improvements are made, it will simply integrate into everyday life running on whatever financial instrument we use most, and even if people aren't fully aware they are using it, Ripple will probably be the underlying system it is running on.
We're testing the system while they create it, so yeah, there will not only be unnecessarily complicated hoops to jump through, but also bugs along the way. Perhaps credit cards will one day be called Ripple Cards, who knows how the adoption stage will kick in, but what is currently available, is one of the most aesthetically pleasing, mathematically secure payment networks ever created.
They just added the email bridge recently that allows you to send a payment to an email address rather than a Ripple Wallet address. Changes like this will be added periodically which will raise adoption rates by orders of magnitude. Once enough improvements are made, it will simply integrate into everyday life running on whatever financial instrument we use most, and even if people aren't fully aware they are using it, Ripple will probably be the underlying system it is running on.
They just added the email bridge recently that allows you to send a payment to an email address rather than a Ripple Wallet address. Changes like this will be added periodically which will raise adoption rates by orders of magnitude. Once enough improvements are made, it will simply integrate into everyday life running on whatever financial instrument we use most, and even if people aren't fully aware they are using it, Ripple will probably be the underlying system it is running on.
There is a complexity Sweet Spot for software/internet products... not too simple, not too complicated.
Bitcoin, EBay, Twitter, YouTube, Bittorrent, Apple hit the nail on the head...
Ripple has completely, massively, ARROGANTLY overshot on the complexity side.
Ripple/JoelKatz: "We are gonna take granny and educate her".
Bitcoin, EBay, Twitter, YouTube, Bittorrent, Apple hit the nail on the head...
Ripple has completely, massively, ARROGANTLY overshot on the complexity side.
Ripple/JoelKatz: "We are gonna take granny and educate her".
You need to be careful dealing with bitcoin, because you can lose your money.
In Ripple you can end up in debt!!!
One problem I see with Ripple, is that common people will not understand Ripple, therefore are unlikely to see any reason to use it.
Because of this, therefore Ripple will spend an awful lot of energies trying to explain to people, and people will still go away shaking their heads not knowing what you are talking about.
Because of this, therefore Ripple will spend an awful lot of energies trying to explain to people, and people will still go away shaking their heads not knowing what you are talking about.
This is a central problem.
There is a complexity Sweet Spot for software/internet products... not too simple, not too complicated.
Bitcoin, EBay, Twitter, YouTube, Bittorrent, Apple hit the nail on the head...
Ripple has completely, massively, ARROGANTLY overshot on the complexity side.
Ripple/JoelKatz: "We are gonna take granny and educate her".
Ripple may wind up being predominantly used between payment systems rather than between users directly.
Could you expand on this? I'm not sure I follow what you mean.You think that Ripple may only have Gateways?
1) The PayPal customer logs into their PayPal account and selects to make a payment.
2) The PayPal customer specifies the Western Union customer using something functionally equivalent to an email address.
3) PayPal talks to Western Union and gets the Ripple account and destination tag to use for the payment.
4) PayPal uses Ripple pathfinding to find out what the payment will cost and informs their customer.
5) The customer approves the transfer.
6) PayPal makes a Ripple payment to Western Union. PayPal decrements the balance on their customer.
7) Western Union sees the payment and credits their customer.
This allows payment systems to federate through Ripple. The payment system operators don't have to handle any cross-currency or cross-issuer issuers so long as there is sufficient liquidity through market makers in the Ripple network. The users don't have to know that the two payment systems used Ripple to make the payment.
This payment can be reversible or irreversible, depending on the agreement between the payment networks (which can be automatically negotiated at step 3). Payment systems can be payment systems themselves and/or they can accept balances from one or more gateways of their choice.
Now, you might wonder why PayPal and Western Union wouldn't just agree to do this without Ripple. And, for this example, they probably would. But if you imagine a number of payment systems using different currencies, you can see why this works better. Email used to work with ad hoc arrangements -- if you had AOL, you could use their Compuserve email gateway to email a Compuserve user. But nobody does it that way anymore, and for good reasons.
If this model takes off, Ripple's direct user base could consist mainly of gateways, payment systems, market makers, large merchants, and power users.
not if each counter party holds a relevant amount of risk to a third party(s) equity/capital.
and if they do - then each would need to underwrite that risk.
then comes into play all the other aspect of the equation that I mentioned previously .
but, as stated , I could be wrong.
The only reason prices are going up is because ripples get destroyed in every transaction
People lose XRP far faster than transactions fees are destroyed. People lose XRP by forgetting or losing access to their password and secret. Jump to: