They will first make 5 units and then use these 5 units to mine and buy components to build another 10, and then use these 15 units to mine to buy components for another 30, etc...
Topic: why sell avalon box when they could mine themselves...? (Read 3732 times)
Currently I believe that they have to mine for themselves to earn the money to finish the production of the first batch
They will first make 5 units and then use these 5 units to mine and buy components to build another 10, and then use these 15 units to mine to buy components for another 30, etc...
They will first make 5 units and then use these 5 units to mine and buy components to build another 10, and then use these 15 units to mine to buy components for another 30, etc...
I put this link in another thread but i think it belongs here.
http://www.btcmu.info/articles/128-miner-speculation-avalon-s-look-to-the-future.html
http://www.btcmu.info/articles/128-miner-speculation-avalon-s-look-to-the-future.html
It appears that after all the reasons listed in this thread most still fall under "The hardware store that sells the shovels makes more money then most of the miners"
"Why would anyone develop and release a GPU miner for free? Anyone capable of writing GPU mining code could make a ton of money by mining themselves while everyone else is stuck using CPUs. A little common sense says that these GPU miners can't be real. Anyone downloading one is just asking to end up with a wallet stealing trojan."
The world is full of people with all kinds of motivations.
The world is full of people with all kinds of motivations.
lol..terrible analogy....
Writing code for existing mass market hardware is trivial compared to designing/fabbing hardware that is specialized in doing one task.
Consider that 300 of these would make a nice profit if mined by one entity.
The greedy algorithm usually covers most human behaviour..especially in the bitcoin world....only the naive or stupid believe otherwise.
"Why would anyone develop and release a GPU miner for free? Anyone capable of writing GPU mining code could make a ton of money by mining themselves while everyone else is stuck using CPUs. A little common sense says that these GPU miners can't be real. Anyone downloading one is just asking to end up with a wallet stealing trojan."
The world is full of people with all kinds of motivations.
The world is full of people with all kinds of motivations.
Miners risk many things... the network hash rate could explode with 4 vendors releasing ASICs at the same time, the price of bitcoin can crash, theft of hardware, broken hardware, fire/flood, etc.
Since they can still make a sizeable profit with absolutely no risks, why not do it?
PS: If you're ordering a lot of ASICs, make sure to get insurance. It will help you sleep better at night!
Since they can still make a sizeable profit with absolutely no risks, why not do it?
PS: If you're ordering a lot of ASICs, make sure to get insurance. It will help you sleep better at night!
Because it wasn't about the money?
>Bitcoin
>Not about money
maybe because cash today versus maybe cash in two weeks?
This is actually a test for the manufacturer's value. I think one year ago they would never expect the price of BTC has risen to a level that it even becomes attractive for them to mine the coin by themselves. Then the manufacturer who do not mine by themselves and distribute the machine evenly will gain the most orders
It's a bit pitty that bASIC quit the game, otherwise the playing field will be more even to ensure the competition, but I heard that ASICminer is going to deploy 800 unit this month, so the difficulty will rise quickly anyway no matter those manufacturer mine or not, their future order purely depend on the quality of their current delivery
It's a bit pitty that bASIC quit the game, otherwise the playing field will be more even to ensure the competition, but I heard that ASICminer is going to deploy 800 unit this month, so the difficulty will rise quickly anyway no matter those manufacturer mine or not, their future order purely depend on the quality of their current delivery
The logical approach for a manufacturer is a split between mining operations and selling units. That pretty much the best way for everyone as well. That covers capital and startup costs and reduces financial risk. I wouldn't believe any manufacturer that said they were not going to mine or have a sister company/associate mine. Normal business sense would determine that as the path but maybe logic business sense doesn't apply here.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Just read all the arguements and this is the best one.
Keep as many ASICs as possible to mine with and sell just enough to keep the masses onboard and Bitcoin afloat.
Hi,
60gh per box @ 300 boxes = way more money via bitcoins then selling them at $1299......
just a little common sense says something is not right here...why sell when you could make WAY more by mining them yourself.
60ghashes per box @ $1299 cost = 60000 million hashes = $6100 per month at current bitcoin exchange rate. $6100 per month per box * 300 boxes = $1.8 million.
LOL.
60gh per box @ 300 boxes = way more money via bitcoins then selling them at $1299......
just a little common sense says something is not right here...why sell when you could make WAY more by mining them yourself.
60ghashes per box @ $1299 cost = 60000 million hashes = $6100 per month at current bitcoin exchange rate. $6100 per month per box * 300 boxes = $1.8 million.
LOL.
Because Avalon were worried about one of the other ASIC developers creating a monopoly, so they developed their own and low and behold, they are the monopoly! Much to their disappointment.
/thread
Because it wasn't about the money?
The logical approach for a manufacturer is a split between mining operations and selling units. That pretty much the best way for everyone as well. That covers capital and startup costs and reduces financial risk. I wouldn't believe any manufacturer that said they were not going to mine or have a sister company/associate mine. Normal business sense would determine that as the path but maybe logic business sense doesn't apply here.
If they mined all the new coin themselves, as soon as they hit 51% we would know and would abandon the coin, making it worthless. There is actually a LOT more money in selling hardware. Especially if they get these products to you and your neighbors, relatives, and friends see you are making money, then they will also buy more products. Anyone in the first and second batch is likely going to see very quick ROI, especially if the price increases as the demand remains the same but the supply decreases. Third batch and BFL customers may also see some ROI. Where it's going to get crazy stupid to buy a miner is when people who don't even know what Bitcoin is right now are here and on the forums 3 months from now trying to figure out who to give thousands of dollars to "make them rich".
IMHO, people that don't understand why companies like BFL and BitSyncom are selling the hardware right now seem to believe everyone is rational just like them. People are irrational. You are taking a risk buying miners. For some, this is an easier choice than others. After all, what is 75 BTC when you own thousands?
If you had any question about whether or not old miners were buying Avalons:
http://blockchain.info/charts/bitcoin-days-destroyed-min-month?showDataPoints=false×pan=all&show_header=true&daysAverageString=7&scale=0&address=
IMHO, people that don't understand why companies like BFL and BitSyncom are selling the hardware right now seem to believe everyone is rational just like them. People are irrational. You are taking a risk buying miners. For some, this is an easier choice than others. After all, what is 75 BTC when you own thousands?
If you had any question about whether or not old miners were buying Avalons:
http://blockchain.info/charts/bitcoin-days-destroyed-min-month?showDataPoints=false×pan=all&show_header=true&daysAverageString=7&scale=0&address=
If one company suddenly started mining half the coins, it would most likely cause a large crash in market price. That and Avalon equipment may not be very profitable, if butterfly meets their specs.
So many responses and yet, nobody has given the correct answer...
You have to realize that the Avalon team is not a large company with lots of money. They did not have the $200-300k to cover the NRE costs to design even just a handful of these 110nm chips. They had no choice but to pre-sell 300 devices in order to get funding. And now that the chips are made, Yifu and ngzhang are obviously ethical people who are not going to steal customers' money by deciding to keep the devices and mine for themselves.
hi: yes, 300 units at $1300 does seem to cover the $200-300k NRE cost from TSCM + whatever other overhead they have.
You have to realize that the Avalon team is not a large company with lots of money. They did not have the $200-300k to cover the NRE costs to design even just a handful of these 110nm chips. They had no choice but to pre-sell 300 devices in order to get funding. And now that the chips are made, Yifu and ngzhang are obviously ethical people who are not going to steal customers' money by deciding to keep the devices and mine for themselves.
hi: yes, 300 units at $1300 does seem to cover the $200-300k NRE cost from TSCM + whatever other overhead they have.
How much did it cost to design/fab the asic chips? The $1299 price allows them to make a profit?
?
? Hi,
60gh per box @ 300 boxes = way more money via bitcoins then selling them at $1299......
just a little common sense says something is not right here...why sell when you could make WAY more by mining them yourself.
60ghashes per box @ $1299 cost = 60000 million hashes = $6100 per month at current bitcoin exchange rate. $6100 per month per box * 300 boxes = $1.8 million.
LOL.
60gh per box @ 300 boxes = way more money via bitcoins then selling them at $1299......
just a little common sense says something is not right here...why sell when you could make WAY more by mining them yourself.
60ghashes per box @ $1299 cost = 60000 million hashes = $6100 per month at current bitcoin exchange rate. $6100 per month per box * 300 boxes = $1.8 million.
LOL.
Of course they could do this, then they will risk of disappearing from the business, when the competitors who do not mine by themselves showed up
Imagine that after one month, people discovered that Avalon was mining with those machines themselves, then who is going to take a future order from them again?
Their batch 2 order only get 45 unit sold, could be partly due to this doubt from batch 1 customers, seems no one except the first 2 people have received an unit from them
Hi,
60gh per box @ 300 boxes = way more money via bitcoins then selling them at $1299......
just a little common sense says something is not right here...why sell when you could make WAY more by mining them yourself.
60ghashes per box @ $1299 cost = 60000 million hashes = $6100 per month at current bitcoin exchange rate. $6100 per month per box * 300 boxes = $1.8 million.
LOL.
60gh per box @ 300 boxes = way more money via bitcoins then selling them at $1299......
just a little common sense says something is not right here...why sell when you could make WAY more by mining them yourself.
60ghashes per box @ $1299 cost = 60000 million hashes = $6100 per month at current bitcoin exchange rate. $6100 per month per box * 300 boxes = $1.8 million.
LOL.
You're right! You should go into business making ASICs and keeping them instead of selling them.
Why do you think they aren't mining themselves? What would make you think they wouldn't claim to make 300 machines, charge preorders work 2x that amount and actually build 600 machines? They need someones money at the start to build them in the first place. No reason to think they aren't mining themselves as well.
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