Topic: Why the world needs Ripple XRP - Whitepaper (Read 12425 times)

1 year latter, world still needs XRP!

A while back I needed to check an old ripple wallet a while back, they don't even have an official offline wallet.
Okay, there are some 3rd party options, but first thing that came to mind was lol..what a huge shitcoin.

wow, what is wrong with ripple, so many discussions with a lot of words, seems everyone has a lot to say about that coin, but I do know much about it.

Their plans are as follows:
https://ripple.com/dev-blog/decentralization-strategy-update/

In short: bring online a few more validators under their control and then turn them off one by one as soon as third party validators fulfill some to be defined criteria to be included on Ripple Labs' UNL.

One question. How would you solving the centralization? Ripple is an centralized coin. Didn't it?

Nope, I got my XRP without any problems and on time. Many people in that thread did not read the OP: "Anyone whose Bitcoin Forum account was created before February 19, 2013, 18:45 UTC, is eligible to receive XRP."
Your account: "Date Registered: July 18, 2013, 04:03:36 AM"
(in case this confuses you: July 2013 is not "before February 2013")

This is in addition to you posting a private key instead of an address (The address to that secret would be rhhhtVFyFuzbXXsMosxPLfGg9BGFzE19NS - but I STRONGLY encourage you not to use it, since the private key is known).

An address by them (back then OpenCoin, now Ripple Inc.) that was used in the giveaway was "rJR7gjNe3DpJ7kpB4CHBxjDKfwVMpTKPpj". Look it up and check which accounts were paid from there, then search bitcointalk for these addresses or just google them (forum search is a bit limited). This should get you started in researching and getting data on if/how something fishy was going on.

https://github.com/ripple/rippled

About coinmarketcap:
They take their "currency in circulation" data from https://ripple.com/xrp-portal/ (see the pie chart on the right side after scrolling down a bit).
You'll notice that it says "As of January 15th, 2017" at the moment. This means since they they could have sold or bought some, but it'll still take a while until they publish their current holdings again (check out on archive.org how this number evolved). Once they do so, CMC will update their numbers at once, since that's the only and best information they have at the time. This does not mean that XRP got dumped suddenly, it could have been a selloff over many weeks or also it could be them paying their employees in XRP (who might not sell at all for a while). I guess this will not calm you down, but might explain it for others reading your "facts". If you have other questions, feel free to ask them.

Well this is not about the giveaway per say but i sure as hell recall people saying they got no coins.
I recall no users saying they got some.. NONE !
That is not a "crazy conspiracy" and people know i have a damn good memory.
I would not make the accusation unless i was confident about it.

That fact you sampled random addresses in 2017 on a giveaway from 2013 does not exactly vindicate you Ripple guys.
For all i know you paid out a bunch of them long after the fact.

The way it played out happened like i said it ..i know i was here and watched it go down.
The topic was created and hammered and there was virtually no response or word back and people kept posting for ages with no word on what was going on.

What the result was is..
A whole lot of people going to Ripple.com etc then inputting their email address <-- valuable personal info.
Then creating a password if i recall correctly.. and uhh yeah in crypto that is worth large cash.
You all know how often hackers take the passwords from some pool and try them on exchanges etc.
If you use your password on 2 sites in crypto you will probably get hacked eventually.

You said Joel it was not handled properly.. so don't cry conspiracy later.
It wasn't and the motivations for doing that was obvious.. advertising.
And it was mighty convenient to let everyone keep going to the site to sign up and piss around making accounts and posting keys
..when you guys knew damn well you were not going to pay anyone out.
Anyone with half a brain could see that is in fact what happened.
And yeah that is in fact sleazy ass fucking shit.. not conspiracy.

Bottom Line ? motivations.
Ripple was never released as an open source decentralized currency.
It's a massive swirling vortex of BAD coincidences.
One thing after another that does not quite look right yet there is always some little excuse to brush off the bad shit swirling around it.
I can make a huge list of it and i have here.

What people need to take away from this is i am being told off by an "Employee" of Ripple.
If that doesn't tell you something then uhh.. happy "investing"

..in a company that is NOT transparent or regulated and has been accused of wrong doing by FiNCEN

I don't want you to assume anything. I want you to understand the procedural controls that I know are in place that make your crazy conspiracy theory extremely implausible.

Did you take a look at some random address from the thread and see that they all did receive their XRP? Did you track the accounts and see that most of the XRP went through to aggregators?

I don't recall the details. I think we did know at the time more precisely how it was gamed. But it obviously was gamed, that's why we suspended it. The evidence is still there for anyone who wants to look at.

The problem is that I can't respond to everything at once. And you have so many objections that I need to respond to that there's really no way to get it sorted out. You're not going to believe me on any one thing because you're holding everything else against me.

Please, at least actually check the accounts on the giveaway thread. This is easy to do. You will see they did receive their XRP and it did go to a small number of aggregator accounts. The giveaway was gamed. That's a fact.

All true. That's how companies work. We're a startup. We're trying to make money and maintain competitive advantage. We don't owe anyone any explanation of anything we do, so long as it's legal.

I agree, it's a good idea to say "I don't know" if you don't know. And I will say "I don't remember" if I don't remember. Or if I think I recall something but aren't confident it's accurate, I'll say so. My best guess about the giveaway on this forum was that people were brute forcing passwords for long-dormant accounts with weak passwords. We had a similar problem with another giveaway where the brute force attempts became a DoS on the service and they had to ask us to stop the giveaway to protect their infrastructure.

I agree now that the whole giveaway idea was a mistake and we never should have done any of them. You either need to collect so much personal information that the giveaway can't be gamed or your giveaway will go to criminals and fraudsters. Neither is what anyone should want.

In other words you don't know but want us to assume it was all legit.

And yeah i looked and my address starts with "ss" so maybe i did fuck up. (that is two errors i will admit to)
That did not change my perception on it though.
I explained how it went down and my posting the wrong address personally does not change the result.

All i see to be blunt is weak excuses handed out long after the fact when criticism is raised.
There is not much room for debate.
A lot of stuff with Ripple is highly sketchy and secretive.
Who ever is behind it seems to do what ever they want and we find out after it happened.

The way it actually works *IS* the problem.
Which has been pointed out by pretty much everyone in crypto endlessly for years.

Feel free to talk about why "..the world needs Ripple"
I was just trying to point out how in my view the world does NOT WANT Ripple.
Far be it for me to dare challenge the assertion of a mighty legit White Paper ROFL

PS:
The words.. "I don't know" are short & sweet and can save you from being raped later people.
Many dev's in Crypto don't get that concept and rail on with long winded speels of bullshit..
which simply digs their hole deeper and deeper.

Unfortunately, I don't remember the details any more of why we stopped that giveaway. I'm pretty sure we had very good reason to believe it was gamed, but I don't recall specifically what it was. It could just have been that most of the people receiving the giveaway immediately transferred the XRP to the same aggregator accounts (and they weren't exchanges or anything like that). But honestly, I don't recall.


I didn't look closely, but I did see the link where you posted your secret rather than your address. That would have allowed anyone to steal your XRP. It's an easy mistake to make, but it definitely would have prevented you from receiving the giveaway because the process was automated.

I don't know how many invalid addresses were posted in the thread. It's easy to check. So if you're going to make the statement, you can easily measure. It might be a lot, it might not. I don't know. I never looked. But I'm not making claims about it. Obviously, invalid addresses didn't receive anything. Valid ones did until we ended the giveaway due to evidence that it was gamed.

That evidence is still available today. Survey the addresses pasted and look at where the XRP went. You can see that it went to a small number of accounts that were not exchanges. I think we had other stronger evidence at the time, but I don't recall for sure.

Honestly, I don't personally know for sure. I don't track all of our partnership deals as they happen and since I left the board of directors, I don't normally get the details on those deals unless I have some reason to ask. We generally wind up making the deals public but not their exact terms and we don't announce them before they're complete. Partners almost always insist such things remain confidential until they can do a press release. We announced a few partnerships with exchanges around that time, it could have been one of those, but I'm just speculating. The ledger is public, so you can probably figure it out if you look closely enough. It wouldn't surprise me if someone already knew and likely discussed it on xrpchat.

Again, I don't know the specifics of this incident. But it would be hard for me to imagine it was anything but. Timing a partnership deal is really complicated and access to our XRP reserves requires multiple parties to act in concert and various levels of internal approval.

I agree that it's kind of strange to compare the "market cap" of systems that operate differently. In a sense, you could argue that the full, eventual supply of both LTC and XRP should be used to calculate the market cap since that's all priced in. But that would make the system gameable too -- say only one XRP was on the market, it might have a very high price. Multiplying that by 100,000,000,000 would obviously give a ridiculously large market cap.

At one time, our strategy was basically to do the same thing bitcoin was doing but to take market share from it by being technically superior. But that was a long time ago. We're not pursuing XRP as a retail payment currency. We're not pursuing XRP as an investment for individuals. Our strategy is primarily to promote XRP as a bridge currency for payments.

I just re-read my last comment and i see an error  
The forum that was hacked.. was THIS one !

Oh and i guess we all posted a wrong address huh ?
Yup we all went and handed over our emails etc and hit on create address on the site and then copied it here "wrong"

LOL mmmm hhhhmmm sure LOL  

Oh and is there any word on that "partnership" ?
You know the one where you said that is why they unleash more coins randomly with no warning or explanation ? (of course not to jump past LTC in the market cap standings)

Or are you going to insult all our intelligence by claiming it was a coincidence ?
http://coinmarketcap.com/
Kind of a coincidence dropping 333 more million coins on the public moved you Ripple guys from #4 position to #3 position leaping of Litecoin.

And yeah i would be just as insulted if LTC guys did that too.
Only thing is THEY CAN'T 

btw Spoetnik it looks like you did not receive xrp back then because you posted a wrong address:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2909682

r = public Ripple address

I'm not saying everyone received free XRP but yes I'm new, yes I'm a Ripple fanboy, whatever...

Well, that was three years ago. We're a much different company now. Not only are we more than ten times larger, but we've been able to recruit people with expertise in areas other than just crypto-currencies. But, yes, we're still trying to do things that are very new and we'll likely still make lots of mistakes.

You can check the addresses in that thread yourself, just like I did. Go to, say, ten random pages. On each one pick three random ripple addresses. Check what XRP they've received. I wasn't that thorough, I checked one address from each of three random pages (from roughly the middle of the thread, if I recall) and they had all received the giveaway. And yes, they had all forwarded it to an aggregator account, so they were probably all the same person. :/

Fundamentally, you either need to map what you're giving away to the actual people who receive it or your giveaway will be gamed by scammers. We're definitely not the only people who had to learn that lesson the hard way. I don't believe in those kinds of giveaways anymore -- it makes more sense to use partnership agreements.

I don't have any particular motive here other than to help people understand why we did what we did. The last thing I'd want to do is pump XRP because that will cause short term spikes in price with subsequent drops. That doesn't help us in any way.

Your recollection is shockingly wrong.. again Joel.
Because the simple fact is people were STILL asking "did anyone get their free coins ?"
..all the way up to page 400

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3291721



We gave over our personal info.
No one got any coins.
Then you guys claim you got hacked ?
Did we lose our personal info ? No one knows the topic was locked.

@JOEL
As usual your a liar spewing complete fucking bullshit and simply causing a diversion with long winded run-arounds here trying to defend the endless shitstorm of bullshit that is Ripple.

All i did was Google "Bitcointalk Ripple Giveaway"
And that page i mentioned was hit #1.
Yet you feel obliged to hand us some hazy recollection that contradicts reality.

HEY EVERYBODDY

CRYPTO NEWS - JOEL SAY'S RIPPLE IS LEGIT NOW !




..white paper approved  

PS:
He is a liar.. he did not "check" any accounts and see payments went out.. because none did.
I sure as hell did not get mine when i handed over my info and posted my address here.

What do you expect ? scroll back a page or two on the last 2 topics / pages on Ripple and see him lying about other shit.
Such as there was no 333 million dumped onto the market.. which we DO KNOW was true.
yet he tried like hell to claim it was lies & FUD etc.
..then later admitted it when he was cornered and threatened with talking to Gliss about it.

If you inadequate to the task of distribution then your certainly not up to the task of supporting a global currency.

You have provided the proof yourself.

It's been a long time, but my recollection is that the giveaway operated for some time, making hundreds of payouts. I just checked a random sample of the accounts pasted on the page, and all of them had received their giveaway. Sadly, most of them had transferred the XRP given to them to a small number of aggregator accounts. That could mean that they sold their XRP, but more likely I think it indicates that a significant fraction of the giveaway went to scammers. Yes, we screwed up. But our heart was in the right place.

No personal information was needed to participate in the giveaway. All you had to do was paste a ripple address. As a practical matter, most people probably did use our hosted services to create those addresses, but they didn't have to. The javascript code to create a secret and ripple address was public at that time.

You did have to publicly map your user ID to your ripple address. In later giveaways, we used a blinding system that made this mapping impossible. But later we switched to giveaways only to people who had completed KYC with us at first and later partners.

We tried again with several other giveaways. Some of them were moderately successful (as I think that one was) but in all cases, the giveaways were gamed. It turns out it's really hard to get this right. I think we were also more concerned than perhaps we needed to be about the legal risks of sending something that might be money to persons unknown to us. But you have to remember, it was 2013, and all this stuff was still pretty new.

It's absolutely fair to criticize us for the problems these giveaways had. We were totally blindsided by how hard it was.

Why the world needs Ripple ? In white paper form ? ooh la la so sounds so official & legit  

I am tremblin with excitement at the ROI'z possibilities.. my wallet is gonna vibrate out of my pocket !

So uhh hows the Big Banks are "using" Ripple News thing posted bi-monthly working out ?
Is THAT why the world needs Ripple ?
You think they enjoy your excuses for FiNCEN coming after Ripple bullshit ?

No worries bro.. shoot 'em a "White paper" ..problem solved !
Or are they not dumb like the rest of these greedy kids in crypto ?

Topic title ? Uhhh why again sorry i missed that part.
Got caught up in the endless stream of Ripple bullshit that all pretty much goes ignored year after year.

Hmm how did Cryptsy get in paid "anonymous" votes ?
How long did they refuse to add it because it was scammy ?

And about that giveaway.. how many of us did you scam out of our personal info with the 400+ page giveaway topic that you guys never paid anyone 1 single coin ?
It said right in the topic "Official"
You made all of us for 400+ pages sign up at Ripple's web site and create a wallet and then come here and post the address and not one fucking guy got a coin and then you simply locked the topic and never mentioned it again.

You want to talk about a group who have a scammy past ..your lookin' at the mother fuckers people  

..this crypto scene is a sleazy little fucking shithole full of corrupt human garbage.

THOSE are the "FACTS" sweety pie

Yes, these are things called facts.

No, but being accused and settling is not proof of guilt either.

As I said, this was only if you were interested in knowing the facts.

WOW really ?
So being accused then settling and handing over a half million dollar penalty is proof of innocence ?

The Ripple media-spin never does stop does it ?

I don't know if you particularly care about facts, but "Convicted guilty of a Financial Crime" is completely untrue. There was a criminal investigation and a civil enforcement action. Ripple settled the civil enforcement action by paying FinCen a fine (and agreeing to other terms, basically that we would follow the law as FinCen understood it) and FinCen agreed not to prosecute us.
https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/05/05/settlement_agreement.pdf

The agreement is an NPA.
http://us.practicallaw.com/9-608-6205

However, if we breach the agreement, FinCen can bring criminal charges against us. They can use our admissions under the NPA as evidence against us in a future criminal trial. So it's still a very serious matter.

Weirdly, though it was one of the most awful things we went through, it probably strengthened us. There was no actual prosecution, and partners reasoned that we probably would not have been able to get an NPA unless FinCen was convinced that our future conduct would be lawful. Oddly, I think in retrospect it actually helped us!

If you're ever in San Francisco, let me know. I'll buy you a beer and tell you the real story of that action.