Topic: Why will Bitcoin have value? - page 3. (Read 560 times)

What you have said is true. If people who enter the cryptocurrency industry are not sure and believe in Bitcoin, it is impossible for Bitcoin to have a lot of value and fans until the supply of Bitcoin itself is almost gone.
Maybe in the past 7-10 years there were still few people who believed and thought that Bitcoin was a very valuable asset, but with the development of the times and technology, more people began to believe and believe in bitcoin until they dared to invest and keep Bitcoin as an asset. them so far.

I believe all those main factor listed above will not be valid if people didn’t trust Bitcoin to begin with. Anyone can clone Bitcoin because it’s open source and start a new token with same feature but ofc people wouldn’t trust it since it’s not Bitcoin.

Holder trust and confidence on Bitcoin is what gives it value up to this point. All the valid point mention are the things people see to trust Bitcoin.

values(sentiment,desires,features, benefits)
is different than
value (economic number/measure)

note the 's' at the end
bitcoins values are the features/benefits mentioned above

but what give bitcoin VALUE
is not the market PRICE

the market PRICE
is a speculative amount that bounces between VALUE and PREMIUM and tests both boundaries

to work out VALUE and PREMIUM (the window that the PRICE bounces within) you have to look at the extremes of economics

yes lots of people have their own sentiment(values) about what prices they want to see. but the overall bit coin VALUE and PREMIUM are at the extreme ends of these

the value is the bottom where after all of the sellers have sold the last and lowest anyone dares sell for. is the bottom VALUE

when all the buyers have bought the last and highest anyone dares buy for is the top PREMIUM

this value/premium window can be calculated

the cheapest way to acquire bitcoin is to have the most efficient mining hardware bought at wholesale/bulk cost. which in 2022 sat at $15k VALUE
the most expensive way to acquire bitcoin is the reason to use but extreme cost of mining. EG highest electric and retail priced hardware

this sat at $90k in 2022.. the market PRICE then moves inbetween $15k-$90k where it may not hit either of these edges and stay somewhere inbetween and is not predictable what the price may be at any time within the window

2021 was a $10k-$75k window

in short there was a reason buyers fizzled out near the top of $70k in 2021 before hitting the window edge

in short there was a reason buyers fizzled out near the bottom of $15k in 2022 before hitting the window edge

this week its still ~under $100k top premium window edge. meaning dont expect speculation to cause a $200k btc price

this week its still ~ $15k bottom value window edge. meaning dont expect speculation to cause a $10k btc price

I think it's really stupid if someone who joined this forum still doesn't know how Bitcoin can have value when Bitcoin already exist since 14 years old.

Just to be clear value isn't same as price, Bitcoin has value because it's decentralized, high security, scarce, offer privacy, can't get manipulated or controlled and borderless transaction. While Bitcoin price is depends on demand and supply, if many people doesn't want Bitcoin, the price would dump very low since no one want to adopt it.

Nice statement, and all the points that the OP gave have the truth to make Bitcoin more valuable, but apart from all these points, the trust of everyone, organizations, companies and even the community is also a factor that makes Bitcoin so valuable, with the level of demand and offers of some large organizations/communities as well as requests for individual/public offers have the potential to be worth Bitcoin.

People's interest in Bitcoin keeps them adopting Bitcoin, because they believe in Bitcoin. and the main thing is Bitcoin cannot be controlled by an individual or government, Bitcoin has its own purpose and has a volatile nature.

Yes, that are some of the reasons.. but I think the most important one is that it is not being controlled by any government. Satoshi Nakamoto left some clues for us with the newspaper clipping, when he pointed to the second government bailout to the Banks, when Satoshi made this available for the first time.

He saw the need for people to have an alternative payment method, in case Banks and governments fail ....and we have  seen this happening in many countries. ( Zimbabwe / Cyprus / ....other examples ==> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation )

Scarce:
occurring in small numbers or quantities; rare.  insufficient for the demand.

sorry but 8billion vs 2,099,999,997,690,000 shareable units
do the math 252500 units each

oh and please FOR ONCE go look at the blockchain data.. the immutable data that even i cannot change!!!
(its not a fantasy. so even you can view it. they even make tools to make it easy for you to view it)

the bread starts off sliced.. its the slices that the bitcoin blockchain counts..
calling it a loaf.. is a separate OFF blockchain thing of a graphic user interface to combine slices.. for easy visual display

the pizza is already in wedges
the gold is already in dust form.
its not about breaking up or cutting..

block rewards 2009-2012 released 5000000000 units per block.
check the numbers
hex: 12A05F200
binary:100101010000001011111001000000000
amount: 5000000000

block rewards 2012-2016 released 2500000000 units per block.
check the numbers
hex: 9502F900
binary:10010101000000101111100100000000
amount: 2500000000

block rewards 2016-2020 released 1250000000 units per block.
check the numbers
hex: 4A817C80
binary:1001010100000010111110010000000
amount: 1250000000

block rewards 2020-2024 released 625000000 units per block.
check the numbers
hex: 2540BE40
binary:100101010000001011111001000000
amount: 625000000

Actually, 19 million coins have been mined, and we're about to witness 20 million mined coins in about 4 years.

Of course, another weird interpretation of franky. Being scarce isn't the same as being highly divisible, but who am I to ruin your fantasy? Bitcoins aren't scarce. Gold isn't scarce either, we have grams. Food isn't scarce if you cut it in multiple pieces! Time isn't scarce, we have nanoseconds.

Well over 19 million BTC has already been mined at this time.

Bitcoins value as you pointed out is tied to its qualities which people benefit from holding it - this is what drives demand.
I desire a decentralized, transparent and immutable asset which can be transferred across borders seamlessly and without the need for a third party, so I desire to own bitcoins.

The supply which is finite would not grow against demand as I pointed out in a reply few minutes ago. This means demand is the only variable and supply is constant or rather limited. This drives the value.

Being divisible does not make a product less scarce. Everyone can get a share of Bitcoin, but everyone is limited in the amount of Bitcoins they can own due to its limited supply.

The reasons have largely be discussed to death, but ultimately it allows you to be truly the owner of the your money, and not rely on anyone else to transfer it, which you simply can't do with fiat unless you mainly deal in cash. Which, of course has its limitations. Bitcoin can be traded globally without much fuss, and without relying on anyone else.

That's generally the direction we're heading. People might not realise it yet, but there's an upside of doing it that way, and partly it has the same reasons why Bitcoin has, and will be successful. I think it extends beyond even that, and the Blockchain will be continued to be used for all sorts of things. Obviously, when I say Blockchain, I mean it like you did; a Blockchain, and not necessarily Bitcoin's Blockchain.

All your points have a degree of truth in them but I also think that bitcoins have value because people have given it value and made it valuable, and people gave them value because it solved/addressed a problem for them. The first problem is the elimination of the need for a third party in transactions and also made making long term investment more accessible to everyone because there is no fixed amount that you need to have to be qualified to buy and hold bitcoins, although to gain well you need a good investment, but you get the point.

I think by having a set cap of 21M coins, it has been the first verifiable money that won't be printed away to no value.  Once you understand it, you realize that it has true power to transfer your wealth into the future without sacrificing it or having to invest and rely on businesses to stay afloat.  It also created the blockchain and mining method of solving the byzantine generals problem.  I believe that someday all digital assets (like stocks) will be tokens on a blockchain.  Maybe not Bitcoin's blockchain, but a blockchain based on that innovation and Bitcoin will still be the underlying store of value for this new economy.

Aside from the given characteristics please bear in mind that Bitcoin has value because people are willing to buy it. So having people demand it, the scarcity, utility, technological feature that helps boundless transfers are some of the factor that gives Bitcoin Value.



I believe having a limited supply ratio of the population makes it scarce.  No matter how we look at it, Bitcoin is only 21m.  We can divide it further increasing the amount to be distributed but still the number of Bitcoin to be in circulation will not change.

I got your idea here but permit me to correct that bitcoin isn't scarce yet since not all the 21 millions bitcoin have been mined already, it's been limited in supply is different from being scarce to say, other assets like gold and the likes were scarce to get because they are centralized while bitcoin can be easily acquired anytime anywhere using p2p network, so we cannot conclude that it's a scarce asset since it does not select who should and shouldn't invest in it, the more reason behind why it's decentralized.

I guess you forgot to say that all the reasons that you pointed out are exactly what gives Bitcoin its intrinsic value.  Its because of these factors that Bitcoin has real world value. Ot has a real usage in the real world and the reasons mentioned here are the main factors that confer Bitcoin its true value.

Apart from that, Bitcoin is valuable because we love it and buy it. The strength of Bitcoin is its community. Bitcoin has value because it is supported by a large community. The value of Bitcoin will exist as long as this community believes in it. Your points actually demonstrate why we love and support Bitcoin. We believe that holding Bitcoin will provide a good return. We can use it as a borderless money transaction and without any third party. So Bitcoin is valuable because of the trust of the community and investors.

The value of things is subjective to each individual, and it changes in time and space. Its not the same ice in the North pole than in Sahara, its not the same selling it to an ice manufacturer than a tourist, its not the same in the middle of the day than the middle of the night, or in winter vs summer...

Limited emission is a reality, doesn't matter the exact amount, it is limited and that's what matters. Also the rate that the remaining coins will be minted at, all of that is fixed in the code and cannot be changed trivially like politicians or banksters do with fiat. If the market price goes too high, the satoshi may start to become impractical, in that case could be proposed a further increase to the number of decimals. Yes, the bitcoin is only a unit of reference that means a 100 million satoshis but nothing changes except the way you end expressing your wealth.

There are the other features of Bitcoin, and every individual learns about them and decides if its valuable or not and how much, for how long and where. Are you fleeing a war and can't simply carry bags of gold with you across the border?

Or maybe you live in America or Europe where the USD and EUR don't seem to be going anywhere (yet) and can even use that money digitally in most parts of the world unrestricted. Some of those people see little value or even think its more cumbersome than "just cash" or credit/debit card.

The correlation of pro/cons is reflected in the market price. And of course the amount that doesn't reach the market because people don't want to part with it or is lost forever, so technically its even less than the so called 21 million. Like the million and so from Satoshi...

im a bitcoin maximalist. but also a realist so that people can be aware of reality and not the utopian.
i love bitcoin but its always best to keep it real.

bitcoin is not a scarce resource
there are going to be 2,099,999,997,690,000 sharable units. these units combine at a rate of 100,000,000 to be a basket term called a (btc) bitcoin, meaning bitcoin is devidable by 100,000,000 units
yep enough units for all 8 billion people to have some division of a btc

whats special about bitcoin is the limit mentioned above or simplified to being called "21m btc". its a known factor and should never change.. unlike fiat that increments its supply forever

decentralised network
the network and distribution of the blockchain data is decentralised. but the powerhouse of the protocol decisions is a current risk factor. everyone relies too much on "core" and even some core devs including the main maintainer has said so. this needs to change to be less vulnerable to abuse. its slow but it can happen

Store of Value
store of value is not the same as the scarce thing just mentioned in previous parts
the store of value is not even the market price
the store of value is an amount/cost that sits below the markets. this number increases steadily over the years
2012(<$2) 2017(<$1k) 2021(<$10k) 2022(<$15k)
this store of value is about the underlying acquisition cost that anywhere on the planet no one can get bitcoin for. which then forms a non zero bottom value. its mainly formed by the most efficient mining costs on the planet setting this store of value limit

golds value $900,, golds spot market $1904(premium today)
golds SoV is today 47%

ethereums  value $40,, ethereums spot market $1300(premium today)
ethereums SoV today is 3%

bitcoins value $15.5k,, bitcoins spot market $18.5k(premium today)
bitcoins SoV today is 84%

the value lock of $15k is a non zero bottom so knowing whatever the price was in 2022, atleast $15k of a btc was value locked and couldnt be lost

Great points, it's clear that the limited supply, decentralization, and resistance to inflation are all factors that contribute to the value of Bitcoin. And those factors have strengthened the most fundamental element: faith. People have faith in technology and its ability to revolutionize the financial system, and that faith is what drives demand and ultimately, value. As more individuals, institutions, and countries adopt and recognize the utility of Bitcoin, that faith is only reinforced and solidified. It's important to remember that without the belief and trust in the potential of Bitcoin, its value would not be sustained.

It is quite an adventure to still be able to witness many technological revolutions, and surely become a part of it.

Scarce Resource
One of the main reasons for Bitcoin's value is that the supply of Bitcoin is limited.  21 million bitcoins will be supplied over 18 million bitcoins have already been mined.  Because the value of Bitcoin is determined by the ratio of supply and demand.  Day by day the demand for BTC is increasing and the number of Bitcoin holders is increasing due to the growing population and the price is likely to increase in the future.  Experts believe that competition between holders will increase the value of BTC in the future when the supply of Bitcoin reaches 21 million while mining Bitcoin will not.
Decentralised Network
Another important reason for BTC's value is that BTC is a fully decentralized networking system.  Centralized network systems could be controlled by governments like traditional currencies or controlled by one or more institutions, individuals and groups.  But since Bitcoin is a completely decentralized system, it cannot be controlled by the government, so Bitcoin is completely Freedom.
Store of Value/Not to be Inflation
Bitcoin works completely against inflation, especially since governments can't regulate it and cannot print it in a printing press like traditional paper money and therefore cannot increase its supply.  So it doesn't get inflation like normal currency. Due to lack of inflation common people can't keep in purchasing power thus Bitcoin's value is maintained.
Bitcoin's Utility & Growing Globally Adoption
Bitcoin's value is maintained as it is exchangeable with various products and day by day various circles, famous people, institutions, countries are recognizing Bitcoin around the world.  Moreover, various business organizations are accepting Bitcoin as a payment system for their business.  Because Bitcoin is such a global revolution, its value will always remain.