Why won't Pelosi let the HOUSE VOTE for an impeachment inquiry? - page 2.

TECSHARE

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Quote from: TwitchySeal on October 08, 2019, 11:14:57 PM

Can we agree that completing the hearing before Christmas would be a substantial political win for the Dems? I'm not saying impeachment will be successful or even a win for the dems. Just that having Trump impeached and waiting trial the longer the better for them.

One way they could slow the whole process down is by convincing Pelosi to call for a house vote. If that were to happen, they would have a bunch of chances to slow the vote down.

As soon as the house investigation is over, I expect them to switch again. The GOP will want the trial to happen ASAP and the dems will be dragging their feet.

It doesn't matter what they do, the dems are painted into a corner. There is no winning move for them. If they impeach, Republicans can bring their own evidence via subpoenas devastating the dems. If they don't impeach, they piss off their base. If they continue with this impeachment theater they piss everyone off.

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Quote from: TECSHARE on October 08, 2019, 10:22:41 PM

Quote from: TwitchySeal on October 08, 2019, 10:13:26 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 08, 2019, 09:33:27 PM

She can't allow an actual vote on impeachment, because that would mean she is bound by house rules allowing Republicans to issue subpoenas, which she knows is the end of the Democrat party as we know it. That's why she is beating a dead horse in "pretending to impeach but not actually impeaching" land. They are boxed in, there is no good move for them now.

At this point I think things have swapped. Dems are now speeding to get the investigation going asap and GOP are doing whatever they can to slow it down since right before Christmas would be the ideal time for the Democrats to have the Investigation completed.

It's like an Impeachment Tango.

Nope. They can start official proceedings at any time. The GOP can't prevent it from starting they can only prevent it from being completed.

Can we agree that completing the hearing before Christmas would be a substantial political win for the Dems? I'm not saying impeachment will be successful or even a win for the dems. Just that having Trump impeached and waiting trial the longer the better for them.

One way they could slow the whole process down is by convincing Pelosi to call for a house vote. If that were to happen, they would have a bunch of chances to slow the vote down.

As soon as the house investigation is over, I expect them to switch again. The GOP will want the trial to happen ASAP and the dems will be dragging their feet.

TECSHARE

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Quote from: TwitchySeal on October 08, 2019, 10:13:26 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 08, 2019, 09:33:27 PM

She can't allow an actual vote on impeachment, because that would mean she is bound by house rules allowing Republicans to issue subpoenas, which she knows is the end of the Democrat party as we know it. That's why she is beating a dead horse in "pretending to impeach but not actually impeaching" land. They are boxed in, there is no good move for them now.

At this point I think things have swapped. Dems are now speeding to get the investigation going asap and GOP are doing whatever they can to slow it down since right before Christmas would be the ideal time for the Democrats to have the Investigation completed.

It's like an Impeachment Tango.

Nope. They can start official proceedings at any time. The GOP can't prevent it from starting they can only prevent it from being completed.

TwitchySeal

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Quote from: TECSHARE on October 08, 2019, 09:33:27 PM

She can't allow an actual vote on impeachment, because that would mean she is bound by house rules allowing Republicans to issue subpoenas, which she knows is the end of the Democrat party as we know it. That's why she is beating a dead horse in "pretending to impeach but not actually impeaching" land. They are boxed in, there is no good move for them now.

At this point I think things have swapped. Dems are now speeding to get the investigation going asap and GOP are doing whatever they can to slow it down since right before Christmas would be the ideal time for the Democrats to have the Investigation completed.

It's like an Impeachment Tango.

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legendary

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She can't allow an actual vote on impeachment, because that would mean she is bound by house rules allowing Republicans to issue subpoenas, which she knows is the end of the Democrat party as we know it. That's why she is beating a dead horse in "pretending to impeach but not actually impeaching" land. They are boxed in, there is no good move for them now.

Spendulus

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Quote from: squatz1 on October 07, 2019, 09:16:23 PM

... if you don't believe an average of polls then that's just not fair.

You might be right in general, but given the actual real world track record of polls on Trump, I have to say that we might disregard polls in his case.

squatz1

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Quote from: yoseph on October 03, 2019, 11:32:07 PM

I really don't trust polls whatsoever, I often find that most polls are biased so as to convince people that they either have people backing them but Nancy Pelosi is sure to give Trump power to win the next election and easily as well, Even Clinton who lied under oath wasn't impeached. They know that they don't have the vote to carry it out that's why they are stalling maybe they want to destabilize Trump's campaign for re-election.

Sometimes true, but this is something that would only stand true for one or two or something like 3 polls.

If you're going to aggregate polls and average them all out -- hundreds of polls with all different questions and different results -- and find a result, then I would trust that result. Yes, there's no way for all polls to be right -- but if you don't believe an average of polls then that's just not fair.

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Quote from: TwitchySeal on October 03, 2019, 11:59:10 PM

Quote from: yoseph on October 03, 2019, 11:32:07 PM

I really don't trust polls whatsoever, I often find that most polls are biased so as to convince people that they either have people backing them but Nancy Pelosi is sure to give Trump power to win the next election and easily as well, Even Clinton who lied under oath wasn't impeached. They know that they don't have the vote to carry it out that's why they are stalling maybe they want to destabilize Trump's campaign for re-election.

What is your method of determining the opinion of those 200+ Million Americans?

There are definitely biased polls out there, but Quinnipiac is one of the most respected.

Even if your poll is legitimate, all it shows is how completely polarized the nation is with the majority of dems supporting impeachment, and the majority of reps rejecting it.

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Quote from: yoseph on October 03, 2019, 11:32:07 PM

I really don't trust polls whatsoever, I often find that most polls are biased so as to convince people that they either have people backing them but Nancy Pelosi is sure to give Trump power to win the next election and easily as well, Even Clinton who lied under oath wasn't impeached. They know that they don't have the vote to carry it out that's why they are stalling maybe they want to destabilize Trump's campaign for re-election.

What is your method of determining the opinion of those 200+ Million Americans?

There are definitely biased polls out there, but Quinnipiac is one of the most respected.

yoseph

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I really don't trust polls whatsoever, I often find that most polls are biased so as to convince people that they either have people backing them but Nancy Pelosi is sure to give Trump power to win the next election and easily as well, Even Clinton who lied under oath wasn't impeached. They know that they don't have the vote to carry it out that's why they are stalling maybe they want to destabilize Trump's campaign for re-election.

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https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=3642

Thats a really big jump.

squatz1

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Quote from: bluefirecorp_ on September 27, 2019, 04:54:17 PM

Impeachment's polling pretty high among citizens. 44% independents. 78% democrats, 18% republicans. I think she's waiting until the number's above 50% for independents. Mind you, Nixon impeachment at the start was only polled at 18% public support.

If you want to point at history. Clintons impeachment was low as well, and he was impeached but wasn't found guility in the senate. Clinton was someone who had used the impeachment effort against him to frame Republicans as partisan and out to get him for personal matters. Clinton won his second term and Dems won many seats in both chambers.

I don't think I'd say that's pretty high. Even if 40 percent of the public or 44 percent of the public supports impeachment -- that still leaves a large number of Amercians who DONT support impeachment.

Look at something like the RNC and Trumps reelection campaign raising tons and tons of money off of this whole thing. They're literally breaking records when they raised 125m in one quarter.

Spendulus

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Quote from: bluefirecorp_ on September 27, 2019, 04:54:17 PM

Impeachment's polling pretty high among citizens. 44% independents. 78% democrats, 18% republicans. I think she's waiting until the number's above 50% for independents. Mind you, Nixon impeachment at the start was only polled at 18% public support.

Nixon, the man who fired his independent prosecutor.

Trump, the man who asked the Ukrainian leader to look into the firing of the independent prosecutor ...

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legendary

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Quote from: bluefirecorp_ on September 27, 2019, 04:54:17 PM

Impeachment's polling pretty high among citizens. 44% independents. 78% democrats, 18% republicans. I think she's waiting until the number's above 50% for independents. Mind you, Nixon impeachment at the start was only polled at 18% public support.

Source? I call bullshit.

"Most Americans remain opposed to impeachment, with 37% saying President Donald Trump should be removed from office and 57% saying he should not, according to a poll released Wednesday."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/impeachment-was-unpopular-before-pelosi-acted-campaign-update/ar-AAHP5dF

bluefirecorp_

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Impeachment's polling pretty high among citizens. 44% independents. 78% democrats, 18% republicans. I think she's waiting until the number's above 50% for independents. Mind you, Nixon impeachment at the start was only polled at 18% public support.

TECSHARE

legendary

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She realized that impeaching Trump for this Ukraine thing is a trap. It will not only fail to get the requisite votes, but will put most of the democrat party on record as judging this as an impeachable offense. At that point all Trump has to do is drop all the documentation of Biden and Obama's past activities doing even more than he was accused of, and the whole party will be boxed in an exposed as being corrupt, partisan, and self serving at the expense of the nation. The democrat party has painted themselves into a corner with their frothing hysterical obsession over getting Trump.

squatz1

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In every single past impeachment inquiry, the full house has put it to a vote on if the inquiry should even exist. Nixon and Clinton both went through this, and both impeachment inquiry passed through the full house by a majority vote. Pelosi has the majority -- why won't she put this to a vote to see where people are and if they're willing to go through with this, instead of just using this as a PR and media machine to hurt the President.

She's now saying that she supports an official inquiry, but nothing is changing in terms of committees and what exactly is going on.

If she trusts that this process is going to work out -- either with the President being impeached by the House, and then being found guilty later on in the Senate -- or this leading to the President losing in 2020 -- then she would put this to a vote for the full house.

Until she does that though, we know that she's just using this for short term gain.

Topic: Why won't Pelosi let the HOUSE VOTE for an impeachment inquiry? - page 2. (Read 232 times)