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Topic: Why would anyone buy this DAO crap? - page 3. (Read 6491 times)

legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
May 19, 2016, 11:37:42 AM
#66
Who decides how and which issues are organized and presented to the voters; and is that influence effectively centralized control?

I'm not sure what side you're trying to take on if it's an investment security or not, but since it's not possible to even have a decentralized system without PoW (PoS is a permissioned ledger), that seems like it would automatically fail for all Eth's legal defenses once they switch to proof of stake.  The fact that they held an IPO for the proof of stake system just puts them further in the grave.

Maybe I should buy just 1 Eth so I can sue them for fraud.
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1000
May 19, 2016, 09:36:26 AM
#65
I bought in but just hope i dont get burned Embarrassed
hv_
legendary
Activity: 2534
Merit: 1055
Clean Code and Scale
May 19, 2016, 04:30:34 AM
#64
If you sit on a (big) bunch of ETH, what would you do with it?

There is no real use case (yet) - so kick them into sth new hypy / at least with 20% ...


For physics:

You can solve a 2 body Problem, good!

3 bodies ? - Ohh - hard....


Many bodies ?  -> do some mean field aproach and look for equilibrium states.


I predict that the DAO power w/o any CEO  or 2-lead CEOs  will fall into the many body trap and tend to equilibrium decisions   ==  DEATH

Look @bitcoin actual Problems: Here 2-3 groups cannot agree on a consensus solution...

Cheers
newbie
Activity: 29
Merit: 0
May 19, 2016, 04:21:07 AM
#63
The decentralized autonomous company has already been explored with things like Bitshares.  Frankly, it kinda sucks.  You have people providing decentralized funding, then the workers that take it have no real incentive or liability to perform unless the worker is already a huge shareholder...but that kind of extremely narrows down your field of workers doesn't it?  You could issue legal contracts with the workers and sue them if they don't perform, but who is the figurehead of the DAO that handles all these things and appears in court?  The DAO converges to centralization resembling a normal, publicly traded company because business is only efficient in a strict, hierarchical, top-down function.

So what exactly do you accomplish out of all this?  If the DAO doesn't collapse on the way to it's evolution in becoming top-down controlled, your only real benefit is the ability to bypass the legal framework and issue a publicly traded stock from your basement (which will probably get people arrested somehow).  So the pros are slightly less legal bureaucracy (only in the short term), with the cons of having nobody at the helm of the company who actually has any idea what they're doing with a valid business plan (you know, the actual important part of a business).

How does a project effectively function with the daily or even major decisions of a project delegated to the fluctuating whims and politics of voting? Who decides how and which issues are organized and presented to the voters; and is that influence effectively centralized control?

Does the DAO bypass the classification of an ICO as an investment security?

The voting aspect confers legal rights and requires centralized organization. Whereas, decentralized version control open-source has no elected center; and proof-of-work decentralized mining controlled protocols have no permanent voting shares.


http://www.cuttingedgecapital.com/what-is-a-security-and-why-does-it-matter/

“when a purchaser is motivated by a desire to use or consume the item purchased . . . the securities laws do not apply.”

“Finally, we examine whether some factor such as the existence of another regulatory scheme significantly reduces the risk of the instrument, thereby rendering application of the Securities Acts unnecessary.”

“The court formulated a new test for whether something is a security, called the “risk capital test” which considers whether funds are being raised for a business venture or enterprise;

whether the investors are substantially powerless to effect [sic] the success of the enterprise


https://coincenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Bitcoin-Primer-2ndEd.pdf#page=35

it [the protocol] would become truly nebulous, running on the shared resources of thousands of distributed computers and not controlled by any central authority.”


https://coincenter.org/2015/02/cryptocurrency-investments-different-securities-investments/

“As a result, these crowd sales share many similarities with traditional securities offerings where investors purchase stock as a bet on the future success of a company.”

“Although most people consider the dollars in their pockets as nothing more than a means for paying for goods and services, the truth is that those dollars are also an investment. The U.S. dollar fluctuates in value relative to other foreign currencies and relative to the goods and services that can be purchased with dollars. If today, you can buy more packs of gum, more light bulbs, or more Euros than you could have bought yesterday with the same amount of dollars, you have profited from your investment in dollars. The value of a U.S. Dollar investment fluctuates based on countless factors such as interest rate levels, trade deficits with other countries, and government policy. To some extent, an investment in the U.S. dollar is an investment in the U.S. economy relative to other countries’ economies.

Holding bitcoins is also an investment. But instead of an investment in a country’s economy, holding bitcoins can be seen as an investment in the network and technology behind Bitcoin.”

No management structure – Indeed, most platforms that require users to transact with a proprietary coin are called decentralized applications because they operate not based on the decisions of a management team or central authority, but based on a defined set of protocols. (For context, a good analogy is to look at how email functions with no central authority behind it.) As a result, when purchasing a coin, unlike when purchasing a stock, an investor is not making the equivalent of a bet on a management team’s ability to operate a profitable company. Instead, an investor is often making a bet on how useful and popular a particular network application will become.

This distinction is not as clear cut when a development team sells a proprietary coin during a crowd sale. In that instance, investors can also be seen as making a bet on a development team’s ability to launch some related project or platform like Storj.”

“Different information asymmetry – Securities laws are based primarily on a principle that full disclosure helps close information gaps between management and investors. As a result, companies planning to offer securities to the public are required to publicize certain defined information about their operations and financial health. Due to the fact that cryptocurrency investors are often investing in a decentralized application and not a management team, they are likely most interested in learning how the protocol behind that application works, not how the initial development team operates. And most popular decentralized applications are already open source, meaning that the protocol for how they will operate can be viewed by anyone.”

“No legal rights – Another key distinction is that cryptocurrencies do not grant their holders any traditional legal rights granted to securities holders. Holding a proprietary coin does not legally entitle one to share in profits realized by the project funded by the sale of that coin or to vote on key decisions that may need to be made about that project’s future.”
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1000
May 18, 2016, 10:33:17 PM
#62
I'm sure your anti semitic rants will have institutional investors rushing to buy bitcoin...or litecoin...or any crypto that isn't ethereum

what's happenning to this digixdao scam now? is this dao hype still on?
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
May 18, 2016, 10:04:13 PM
#61
You can retweet that with all your accounts and hope you get all the satisfaction but nothing stops DAO still.
member
Activity: 90
Merit: 10
May 15, 2016, 06:56:38 PM
#60
have to wait and c what happens
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1011
FUD Philanthropist™
May 15, 2016, 05:37:03 PM
#59
Notice how all the negative things said about Eth, then a month later these FUDers get proven wrong.

Stop trying, Eth along with everything created on top of it is here to stay, and yes it is real.

End the FUD.



This is NOT a topic about ETH believe it nor Shill.

And you just lied through your teeth.. badly.  Roll Eyes

People this Ethereum clown is not too smart.. he couldn't make hot in a fire !
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
May 15, 2016, 05:18:40 PM
#58
The decentralized autonomous company has already been explored with things like Bitshares.  Frankly, it kinda sucks.  You have people providing decentralized funding, then the workers that take it have no real incentive or liability to perform unless the worker is already a huge shareholder...but that kind of extremely narrows down your field of workers doesn't it?  You could issue legal contracts with the workers and sue them if they don't perform, but who is the figurehead of the DAO that handles all these things and appears in court?  The DAO converges to centralization resembling a normal, publicly traded company because business is only efficient in a strict, hierarchical, top-down function.

So what exactly do you accomplish out of all this?  If the DAO doesn't collapse on the way to it's evolution in becoming top-down controlled, your only real benefit is the ability to bypass the legal framework and issue a publicly traded stock from your basement (which will probably get people arrested somehow).  So the pros are slightly less legal bureaucracy (only in the short term), with the cons of having nobody at the helm of the company who actually has any idea what they're doing with a valid business plan (you know, the actual important part of a business).

hf bagholder, with your pointless, outdated clone coin and play games while the world moves on

I don't know for sure but I don't think r0ach is a BTS bag holder. He was involved earlier but probably sold long ago and is sharing his (relevant imo) experience.
full member
Activity: 157
Merit: 100
May 15, 2016, 05:15:44 PM
#57
The decentralized autonomous company has already been explored with things like Bitshares.  Frankly, it kinda sucks.  You have people providing decentralized funding, then the workers that take it have no real incentive or liability to perform unless the worker is already a huge shareholder...but that kind of extremely narrows down your field of workers doesn't it?  You could issue legal contracts with the workers and sue them if they don't perform, but who is the figurehead of the DAO that handles all these things and appears in court?  The DAO converges to centralization resembling a normal, publicly traded company because business is only efficient in a strict, hierarchical, top-down function.

So what exactly do you accomplish out of all this?  If the DAO doesn't collapse on the way to it's evolution in becoming top-down controlled, your only real benefit is the ability to bypass the legal framework and issue a publicly traded stock from your basement (which will probably get people arrested somehow).  So the pros are slightly less legal bureaucracy (only in the short term), with the cons of having nobody at the helm of the company who actually has any idea what they're doing with a valid business plan (you know, the actual important part of a business).

hf bagholder, with your pointless, outdated clone coin and play games while the world moves on
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
May 15, 2016, 05:10:42 PM
#56
it is here to stay, and yes it is real.

Idiot. Only the legal issues of a DAO are real and here to stay.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
May 15, 2016, 05:06:40 PM
#55
Notice how all the negative things said about Eth, then a month later these FUDers get proven wrong.

Stop trying, Eth along with everything created on top of it is here to stay, and yes it is real.

End the FUD.

hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
May 15, 2016, 04:39:22 PM
#53
The decentralized autonomous company has already been explored with things like Bitshares.  Frankly, it kinda sucks.  You have people providing decentralized funding, then the workers that take it have no real incentive or liability to perform unless the worker is already a huge shareholder...but that kind of extremely narrows down your field of workers doesn't it?  You could issue legal contracts with the workers and sue them if they don't perform, but who is the figurehead of the DAO that handles all these things and appears in court?  The DAO converges to centralization resembling a normal, publicly traded company because business is only efficient in a strict, hierarchical, top-down function.

So what exactly do you accomplish out of all this?  If the DAO doesn't collapse on the way to it's evolution in becoming top-down controlled, your only real benefit is the ability to bypass the legal framework and issue a publicly traded stock from your basement (which will probably get people arrested somehow).  So the pros are slightly less legal bureaucracy (only in the short term), with the cons of having nobody at the helm of the company who actually has any idea what they're doing with a valid business plan (you know, the actual important part of a business).

That is the main issue with DAO. A graduate level lawyer would be able to explain to the idiots why this is an unsolvable issue with DAO. (Not that the idiots who "invest" in this nonsense would care at all as they couldn't care less about DAO - they are involved to realize the "ROI").

http://www.coindesk.com/how-to-sue-a-decentralized-autonomous-organization/

"Second, for a DAO to operate in a world in which legal relationships are formalized by contracts, and enforced by courts, I don't see how a DAO can act unless it is either a corporation or it has no corporate form and it is simply an extension of its human members."

and this is the most interesting bit

"Among other things, the members of a general partnership can end up jointly and severally liable on a personal basis for partnership obligations. One potential flaw in their structure is that they may not have assets from which to indemnify third parties.".

However the DAO operators try to twist the facts around the legal responsibility issue, the court will enforce its orders and rulings on the human operators of the network. Would Vitalik get as far as operating a DAO? I doubt he will. It is nothing else but selling a useless, fraudulent fucking cryptoasset.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 501
May 15, 2016, 11:03:10 AM
#52
I bought it just because the hype.

You will probably be burned by the whale as soon as they try to get more DAO from the weak hands.
newbie
Activity: 53
Merit: 0
May 15, 2016, 10:02:14 AM
#51
I bought it just because the hype.
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1026
★Nitrogensports.eu★
May 15, 2016, 06:06:48 AM
#50
This is going to be one, if not the biggest scam in cryptoland so far!!
Unbelievable how stupid people can be!

Stupid + Greedy.
The fear of missing out on an ETH like rally is driving all the investments.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
May 15, 2016, 05:59:42 AM
#49
DAO crap is as crap as ETH !

"Crap I failed to buy that 1000% ROI crap."

We were crazy for ignoring what Bernie SandersMadoff was selling, until the clawbacks[1]...

Oh so you aren't aware they can come take your profits long after you've disposed of the asset. This is a clawback.[1]

[1]http://www.businessinsider.com/the-truth-behind-how-gerald-celente-got-screwed-by-mf-global-2011-11
http://www.businessinsider.com/two-mf-global-clients-share-their-stories-2011-11
legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1016
May 15, 2016, 05:50:25 AM
#48
This is going to be one, if not the biggest scam in cryptoland so far!!
Unbelievable how stupid people can be!
legendary
Activity: 3976
Merit: 1421
Life, Love and Laughter...
May 15, 2016, 05:28:55 AM
#47
The decentralized autonomous company has already been explored with things like Bitshares.  Frankly, it kinda sucks.  You have people providing decentralized funding, then the workers that take it have no real incentive or liability to perform unless the worker is already a huge shareholder...but that kind of extremely narrows down your field of workers doesn't it?  You could issue legal contracts with the workers and sue them if they don't perform, but who is the figurehead of the DAO that handles all these things and appears in court?  The DAO converges to centralization resembling a normal, publicly traded company because business is only efficient in a strict, hierarchical, top-down function.

So what exactly do you accomplish out of all this?  If the DAO doesn't collapse on the way to it's evolution in becoming top-down controlled, your only real benefit is the ability to bypass the legal framework and issue a publicly traded stock from your basement (which will probably get people arrested somehow).  So the pros are slightly less legal bureaucracy (only in the short term), with the cons of having nobody at the helm of the company who actually has any idea what they're doing with a valid business plan (you know, the actual important part of a business).

Sure.  But give it a chance and see where it goes this time around.  

Edit:  Like people here have a choice whatever they say.  The DAO crowdfund is ongoing and could be the largest in history of crowdfunding.
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