Why would people ever use bitcoin if its expected to always go up? - page 9.

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: jaysabi on August 07, 2021, 11:35:26 PM

Congratulations, you've identified the main problem with a deflationary currency- it disincentivizes economic activity. That's why inflation is built in to our economic system and monetary policy. It's a feature, not a bug.

Feature that robs people that save money. Great feature ... pickpocket guy in crowded subway is also a "feature"?

Quote from: bitsnack on August 07, 2021, 11:22:57 AM

I couldn't put the full title in the subject line due to character restrictions, but here is the full question:
If bitcoin was fully adopted into everyday life, why would it ever be used for day-to-day transactions if the general consensus was that the price would always appreciate?

After reading several posts on this forum many people seem to think that Bitcoin will always go up. If this were to be the case, why would people spend Bitcoin at all? In this theoretical time, wouldn't it just be a poor financial decision to do?

Or is it thought that in this future where there is widespread adoption the price would stop being so volatile and for the most part stabilize?

"wouldn't it just be a poor financial decision to do?"

Eating is not a financial decision. Eating is a physiological need that must be satisfied. Same as owning a car, or a place to sleep. You spend money when you need goods. With deflationary currency you focus on saving and spending when you actually need something. I own BTC since 2017. Using it when it was 6k$, 10k$, 20k$, 40k$, 60k$. I don't care that price went up and I could buy 2 times more at ath. I needed stuff i bought using BTC when I bough them, not now, not after 10 years because people can't survive 10 years without food. It was not financial decision. Its financial decision when you have 1% in BTC 99% in fiats - you spend fiats. If you have 99% in BTC and 1% in fiats ... you spend BTC when you need goods.

cryptoaddictchie

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Quote from: bitsnack on August 07, 2021, 11:22:57 AM

After reading several posts on this forum many people seem to think that Bitcoin will always go up. If this were to be the case, why would people spend Bitcoin at all? In this theoretical time, wouldn't it just be a poor financial decision to do?

Some uses it as for their convenience. You cant see it well cause you are only looking on the other reason why some uses it instead of holding it and becoming rich in the end.

Yes you are right this expensive digital coin is too expensive to spend right? Why not hodl it and sell it when the times come. However people that believe of use cases easily use their bitcoin for daily transactions. Some are even uses it for a simple payment terms.

Drop a merit for a very delicate question.

tippytoes

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Quote from: sunsilk on August 07, 2021, 04:49:28 PM

Situation. That's the main reason why people are using it for things that they need. If the person who holds bitcoin is in good situation and doesn't have to think of spending and selling his bitcoin, he'll be ending up holding it for long and there's no doubt with it.

But even if a person holds bitcoin, time will come that he has to sell it for such serious situation that he has no choice but to sell it at any price just because the situation permits.

That's actually true. Every person here has their own needs and reasons why they are into crypto. Also, at some point even long time holders will sell if they see that the price is quite attractive for them. And a lot of us here are also waiting for the good timing in the market to sell some of our stash. Not many people can afford to hold long term as a lot of us here has needs to address especially during this pandemic. And besides, if everyone here is expected to hold long term, the supply and demand in the market will not be good.

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So anyway, I applied as a merit source :)

Quote from: bitsnack on August 07, 2021, 11:22:57 AM

After reading several posts on this forum many people seem to think that Bitcoin will always go up. If this were to be the case, why would people spend Bitcoin at all? In this theoretical time, wouldn't it just be a poor financial decision to do?

Majority of the countries in this world do no consider bitcoin as a legal tender and to be used as money one has to heckle a lot of fees to finally be able to convert bitcoin to fiat. But they can buy bitcoin for selling in future and therefore it is easier to hold as a mode of investment.

There is the reason why the use of bitcoin as an investment mode became more popular even though it was intended to be a mode of payment. In fact if today the fiat currencies were deflationary they would also have had a similar economy.

Quote

Or is it thought that in this future where there is widespread adoption the price would stop being so volatile and for the most part stabilize?

Cost of price can be adjusted and bitcoin is divisible up to eight decimal places. So let the price rise, but it can still be used as a currency, although it would become less attractive to use as currency if an alternative inflationary currency already exists.

Of course people have to spend to survive, they need food and basic services, so they have to pay. So if fiat did not exist, they will be forced to spend their bitcoin.

jaysabi

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Quote from: bitsnack on August 07, 2021, 11:22:57 AM

I couldn't put the full title in the subject line due to character restrictions, but here is the full question:
If bitcoin was fully adopted into everyday life, why would it ever be used for day-to-day transactions if the general consensus was that the price would always appreciate?

After reading several posts on this forum many people seem to think that Bitcoin will always go up. If this were to be the case, why would people spend Bitcoin at all? In this theoretical time, wouldn't it just be a poor financial decision to do?

Or is it thought that in this future where there is widespread adoption the price would stop being so volatile and for the most part stabilize?

Congratulations, you've identified the main problem with a deflationary currency- it disincentivizes economic activity. That's why inflation is built in to our economic system and monetary policy. It's a feature, not a bug.

sunsilk

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Situation. That's the main reason why people are using it for things that they need. If the person who holds bitcoin is in good situation and doesn't have to think of spending and selling his bitcoin, he'll be ending up holding it for long and there's no doubt with it.

But even if a person holds bitcoin, time will come that he has to sell it for such serious situation that he has no choice but to sell it at any price just because the situation permits.

hatshepsut93

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If you get your salary paid in Bitcoin, you will have no choice but to spend it on your living necessities as well as entertainment, hobbies, etc. From time to time I am selling small amounts of coins when I need some extra money for my purchases, and I never care that these money could be worth 10 times more in the future, because I live in the present, not the future. I'm not going to sit in my house all my life and wait for Bitcoin to go to the moon.

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Quote from: Bravehash on August 07, 2021, 12:11:19 PM

Bitcoin is highly volatile and this will make it very hard to be use as daily means of payment for many businesses out there, I think the whole BTC idea is instability and that is what makes it the best, come to think of this if BTC is stable who will be using it today? Even if people use it there will be difference because there is zero gains in stable coins

this is what makes it more interesting because if btc becomes stable it won't be monotonous and maybe even some people will tend to move because of this.
which makes bitcoin a coin that is loved by people because apart from its pluctative nature and this coin is interesting in terms of its fundamentals which makes people interested in adopting it and if btc is stable of course people will start to change direction and will be the same as other stable coins and bitcoin will become common thing

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I think people are used to a currency that constantly lose value, so it will be a breath of fresh air for them to use a currency that appreciate in value. The long-term believe seem to be that a more even distribution of bitcoins will eliminate the "whales" that are causing these "Spikes" and "Dips" in the price.

I honestly think "Whales" will always exist, because there are some filthy rich individuals and groups.. that will always be in the position to buy a lot of coins. People will get used to the price cycle and they will capitalize on the "recovery" period. (Spending when it is on the Up and Up) Wink

Assface16678

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That's because they want to, they want to use it like a currency that can buy stuffs and services, nothing wrong with that plus if the seller favors to sell to someone at a discounted price to someone who pays in bitcoin. It's not always the speculative aspect that we should be focused on, remember that it's just half of what bitcoin is.

Silberman

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Quote from: bitsnack on August 07, 2021, 11:22:57 AM

I couldn't put the full title in the subject line due to character restrictions, but here is the full question:
If bitcoin was fully adopted into everyday life, why would it ever be used for day-to-day transactions if the general consensus was that the price would always appreciate?

After reading several posts on this forum many people seem to think that Bitcoin will always go up. If this were to be the case, why would people spend Bitcoin at all? In this theoretical time, wouldn't it just be a poor financial decision to do?

Or is it thought that in this future where there is widespread adoption the price would stop being so volatile and for the most part stabilize?

What you are seeing is something similar to the Gresham's law at work, we have two different types of currencies, fiat currencies and cryptocurrencies like bitcoin, and people are going to use the currency that loses value over time and they will prefer to keep the one that gains it, but what is the endgame? The endgame is that eventually we see a reversal and we see Thier's law in place and people will prefer to make transactions with a good currency and disregard the bad one, but how long is that going to take? No one really knows.

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Quote from: bitsnack on August 07, 2021, 11:22:57 AM

After reading several posts on this forum many people seem to think that Bitcoin will always go up. If this were to be the case, why would people spend Bitcoin at all? In this theoretical time, wouldn't it just be a poor financial decision to do?

1. Bitcoin goes up and goes down too. It has quite a wild range of price fluctuations. In general though, it goes up. But: I expect that after not too many more years the overall appreciation curve will no longer be this stiff and the "price going up" will not be such a big thing (it may go up at a rate similar to what current fiat goes down).

2. On short term, let's say from the monthly paycheck to the moment you'd spend (like for fiat) the price difference is quite often insignificant.

3. Although Bitcoin looks great now as long term investment, we don't live forever and we have to also "eat" today too. Hence:
- People who invested in the past does sell, at least now and then.
- People who earn bitcoin may sell now and then.
- Mining is a business. Miners pay for electricity and may have other expenses too. They also obviously sell.

So there are valid scenarios for also spending Bitcoin. And as I said, after more time will be passing, it should start making even more sense to spend too, not just hodl.

Bravehash

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Bitcoin is highly volatile and this will make it very hard to be use as daily means of payment for many businesses out there, I think the whole BTC idea is instability and that is what makes it the best, come to think of this if BTC is stable who will be using it today? Even if people use it there will be difference because there is zero gains in stable coins

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It seems like this...Why you are here in crypto? To invest in bitcoin. Why you need to invest in bitcoin? To earn profit. Why you need to earn? Just to live and survive. To have money to spend for foods, clothes, house, cars, pay bills, hang outs, etc.... What’s the benefit of bitcoin if people don’t use it? Don't forget that bitcoin was created from zero value and now it was so valuable because of it's limited supply with a higher demand. And while adoption keep on increasing, bitcoin is become more useful not just as an asset but also as digital currency that people love to buy and sell.

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Quote from: bitsnack on August 07, 2021, 11:22:57 AM

I couldn't put the full title in the subject line due to character restrictions, but here is the full question:
If bitcoin was fully adopted into everyday life, why would it ever be used for day-to-day transactions if the general consensus was that the price would always appreciate?

I have some sort of answer to that, I think it's probably the same as using a dollar to buy a candy, there's an exchange where you can trade foreign currency for your dollar. I think that it's the same as that although bitcoin is much more bigger in terms of growth plus wouldn't it be good that bitcoin is circulating through the usage of it as a transaction medium besides being a speculative asset?

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Quote from: bitsnack on August 07, 2021, 11:22:57 AM

I couldn't put the full title in the subject line due to character restrictions, but here is the full question:
If bitcoin was fully adopted into everyday life, why would it ever be used for day-to-day transactions if the general consensus was that the price would always appreciate?

After reading several posts on this forum many people seem to think that Bitcoin will always go up. If this were to be the case, why would people spend Bitcoin at all? In this theoretical time, wouldn't it just be a poor financial decision to do?

Or is it thought that in this future where there is widespread adoption the price would stop being so volatile and for the most part stabilize?

This is a really good question.

1)
One mindset is it is a hedge against inflation. = hodl hodl hodl.

This can drive the price up. Say I have $1,000,000 and want an inflation hedge I have to find some one willing to sell it. This can drive the price up.

2

Some people day trade 24/7/365. This churns the coins and in the long run should not make price go up or down

3

every day LN adoption is the unknown if it happens world wide it will churn coins it should not make the price go up or down

We are not sure if 2&3 will override 1

the coin is set in stone =21,000,000 so no inflation

rewards drop. mining cost pressure. both should rise price

2&3 add tx fees to help miners survive.

It is very much a balancing act. 2&3 need to be large enough to help mining work as profitable.

blocks are 6.25 soon to be 3.125 under 3 years and 1.5625 under 7-8 years

It should be interesting to see this play out.

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Quote from: bitsnack on August 07, 2021, 11:22:57 AM

If bitcoin was fully adopted into everyday life, why would it ever be used for day-to-day transactions if the general consensus was that the price would always appreciate?

Bitcoin price is determined by demand and supply, if people are selling Bitcoin, the price will be decreasing, if more people are buying bitcoin, the price will be increasing. So, I do not understand what you meant by consensus here, although the supply is limited to 21 million.

Quote from: bitsnack on August 07, 2021, 11:22:57 AM

After reading several posts on this forum many people seem to think that Bitcoin will always go up. If this were to be the case, why would people spend Bitcoin at all? In this theoretical time, wouldn't it just be a poor financial decision to do?

Why do people like to enjoy life before they die? I think that answers the question. Also, some people are just crypto traders, they sell and buy Bitcoin. Also, some people may go broke and have no option than to make use of some of their Bitcoin. Some people already seen enough profit and feel like selling some of their Bitcoin holdings, and many other reasons.

Quote from: bitsnack on August 07, 2021, 11:22:57 AM

Or is it thought that in this future where there is widespread adoption the price would stop being so volatile and for the most part stabilize?

There is nothing like volatility will be stabilized, although Bitcoin price may become less volatile as the level of adoption increased which I think it is the question asked.

bitsnack

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I couldn't put the full title in the subject line due to character restrictions, but here is the full question:
If bitcoin was fully adopted into everyday life, why would it ever be used for day-to-day transactions if the general consensus was that the price would always appreciate?

After reading several posts on this forum many people seem to think that Bitcoin will always go up. If this were to be the case, why would people spend Bitcoin at all? In this theoretical time, wouldn't it just be a poor financial decision to do?

Or is it thought that in this future where there is widespread adoption the price would stop being so volatile and for the most part stabilize?

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