wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF??

Meni Rosenfeld

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Meni Rosenfeld on June 19, 2012, 05:41:23 AM

It's not easy to to figure out which addresses belong to a given person. Case in point, I don't think it was ever done.

Quote from: John (John K.) on June 19, 2012, 05:39:38 AM

Bitcoins are ultimately untraceable provided the users cares to not reuse any of his addresses.

That's not true. The main problem isn't reusing addresses, it's merging outputs.

Correct.

See here for a tool that computes the list of addresses
that can be proved to belong to the same person:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--88584

Cool. "Proven" should be taken with a grain of salt, as advanced Bitcoin usage (such as oblivious mixing) can involve transactions with multiple inputs which do not belong to the same person.

SgtSpike

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Quote from: rjk on June 19, 2012, 09:20:53 PM

Quote from: doobadoo on June 19, 2012, 09:05:34 PM

Quote from: rjk on June 19, 2012, 08:05:52 PM

Quote from: malaimult on June 19, 2012, 06:37:33 PM

ok so the address it's traceable. but trace to what? no isp no psychical address

If you can trace it across many transactions, and several of those transactions have the same IP, it could be assumed that that IP is where the person is. Obviously this isn't always true, but it often can be.

I thought Ips weren't attached to txs...at least in the block chain. my understanding is that the client echos other txs it hears from neighboring clients..and when it relays those txs, it 'sounds' the same as when a client originates the tx. thus w/o active surveillance of the network (running dirty nodes) its tough to see where a tx may have originated.

There is also an option to route this traffic over TOR, in the next or the one after version, this TOR support is scheduled to include peer discovery and the ability to run all traffic thru a hidden service.

It does relay all transactions, but you never know whether yours will be detected by a service that collects IPs first, or whether it will be relayed before it gets detected by such a service. Probably half of my transactions on blockchain.info show my IP, and the other half show random nodes that relayed my transactions first.

And yes, Tor will make IP correlation impossible, if used correctly.

Interesting... none of my transactions show my real IP. Not that I'd really care if anyone found it anyway...

rjk

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1ngldh

Quote from: doobadoo on June 19, 2012, 09:05:34 PM

Quote from: rjk on June 19, 2012, 08:05:52 PM

Quote from: malaimult on June 19, 2012, 06:37:33 PM

ok so the address it's traceable. but trace to what? no isp no psychical address

If you can trace it across many transactions, and several of those transactions have the same IP, it could be assumed that that IP is where the person is. Obviously this isn't always true, but it often can be.

I thought Ips weren't attached to txs...at least in the block chain. my understanding is that the client echos other txs it hears from neighboring clients..and when it relays those txs, it 'sounds' the same as when a client originates the tx. thus w/o active surveillance of the network (running dirty nodes) its tough to see where a tx may have originated.

There is also an option to route this traffic over TOR, in the next or the one after version, this TOR support is scheduled to include peer discovery and the ability to run all traffic thru a hidden service.

It does relay all transactions, but you never know whether yours will be detected by a service that collects IPs first, or whether it will be relayed before it gets detected by such a service. Probably half of my transactions on blockchain.info show my IP, and the other half show random nodes that relayed my transactions first.

And yes, Tor will make IP correlation impossible, if used correctly.

doobadoo

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Quote from: rjk on June 19, 2012, 08:05:52 PM

Quote from: malaimult on June 19, 2012, 06:37:33 PM

ok so the address it's traceable. but trace to what? no isp no psychical address

If you can trace it across many transactions, and several of those transactions have the same IP, it could be assumed that that IP is where the person is. Obviously this isn't always true, but it often can be.

I thought Ips weren't attached to txs...at least in the block chain. my understanding is that the client echos other txs it hears from neighboring clients..and when it relays those txs, it 'sounds' the same as when a client originates the tx. thus w/o active surveillance of the network (running dirty nodes) its tough to see where a tx may have originated.

There is also an option to route this traffic over TOR, in the next or the one after version, this TOR support is scheduled to include peer discovery and the ability to run all traffic thru a hidden service.

nimda

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0xFB0D8D1534241423

Good luck tracing a tx to an ip...

rjk

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1ngldh

Quote from: malaimult on June 19, 2012, 06:37:33 PM

ok so the address it's traceable. but trace to what? no isp no psychical address

If you can trace it across many transactions, and several of those transactions have the same IP, it could be assumed that that IP is where the person is. Obviously this isn't always true, but it often can be.

malaimult

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with the banking system no. i was curious with btc since there is no info for the blockchain eg address: 837jsjre93ijas belongs to John Doe

proudhon

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Quote from: malaimult on June 19, 2012, 06:37:33 PM

ok so the address it's traceable. but trace to what? no isp no psychical address

That's the thing. Transactions are always traceable. They can be traceable to real world identities and sometimes they cannot be traceable to real world identities, and whether some transactions are traceable or not can depend on whether a person making a transaction wants them to be. Do you even have that choice with the traditional banking system?

malaimult

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ok so the address it's traceable. but trace to what? no isp no psychical address

proudhon

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Quote from: Bro on June 19, 2012, 06:08:06 PM

Quote from: proudhon on June 19, 2012, 02:33:48 PM

So, let's do an experiment. Here's a transaction that I just randomly picked to Wikileak's public address as you posted it above. And here's the request: Identify the person who made that transaction.

GO!

that's ridiculous, I do not have a backdoor access to all credit card/bank transactions, all gmail emails, etc like the US agencies do (and thousands of other things I can't think of)

and the context is wikileaks, not me

who is wikileaks' enemy? the USA. is it easy for them to 'track back to you'? hell yes

But you can make bitcoin donations to wikileaks without using credit cards, bank transactions, or traceable email accounts.

malaimult

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everything it's traceable.
cash aren't. so the best thing it's cash in hand. btc on paper

Bro

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Quote from: proudhon on June 19, 2012, 02:33:48 PM

So, let's do an experiment. Here's a transaction that I just randomly picked to Wikileak's public address as you posted it above. And here's the request: Identify the person who made that transaction.

GO!

that's ridiculous, I do not have a backdoor access to all credit card/bank transactions, all gmail emails, etc like the US agencies do (and thousands of other things I can't think of)

and the context is wikileaks, not me

who is wikileaks' enemy? the USA. is it easy for them to 'track back to you'? hell yes

bitstarter

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BitcoinStarter.com Support Account

Quote from: SgtSpike on June 19, 2012, 05:23:02 PM

Quote from: malaimult on June 19, 2012, 04:36:51 PM

so it's traceable or not?

Depends on how you look at it.

Picking a random transaction out of the blockchain and trying to figure out who it is is next to impossible.

Asking for a payment from someone you are trying to track, or paying someone you are trying to track, can make it much easier to find and track that individual's activities.

this ^^

SgtSpike

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Quote from: malaimult on June 19, 2012, 04:36:51 PM

so it's traceable or not?

Depends on how you look at it.

Picking a random transaction out of the blockchain and trying to figure out who it is is next to impossible.

Asking for a payment from someone you are trying to track, or paying someone you are trying to track, can make it much easier to find and track that individual's activities.

hazek

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Quote from: malaimult on June 19, 2012, 04:36:51 PM

so it's traceable or not?

A pretty accurate answer would be: It can be untraceable if you take extra precautions and know what you're doing.

malaimult

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so it's traceable or not?

RodeoX

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The revolution will be monetized!

I think that statement is true. It is not easy to track them back to you. There may be only a few thousand people on Earth who know how.

mb300sd

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Drunk Posts

Quote from: h00ters on June 19, 2012, 12:25:41 PM

Quote from: davout on June 19, 2012, 05:51:32 AM

Quote from: Meni Rosenfeld on June 19, 2012, 05:41:23 AM

That's not true. The main problem isn't reusing addresses, it's merging outputs.

+1, instawallet FTW

The fact its online does not mean its secure. Security thru ob-security does not work. *sigh*

I'd probably do coins -> instawallet -> torwallet -> silkroad -> wikileaks if I really wanted to hide the trail.. If anyone can get all 3 services to give you up your screwed anyway.

SgtSpike

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Quote from: Meni Rosenfeld on June 19, 2012, 05:41:23 AM

It's not easy to to figure out which addresses belong to a given person. Case in point, I don't think it was ever done.

With just a cursory look, I can tell you that the following addresses belong to you:
1ApQ87FJbjQCxNxwsHgvkYPEwfRhdvj3mE
19BMM9q378xM3k8Afpbhpq1nAJJeQrGZvy
1L7JGxAJyPdeub19air92YoyvU7HsquZNF
1KgyyHBg4oAyUc1YjbL73MjLiUv7bvYJmX
197ZQJdbMaZMkSWxvDAmT8kqhgraLD13VU
1GZuqj98TNipqxm7iULpdbuWc33sWehHPm
1Mho7R9VuPdacY6SWr53h7ThjRnX1D8mab

Quote from: h00ters on June 19, 2012, 12:25:41 PM

Quote from: davout on June 19, 2012, 05:51:32 AM

Quote from: Meni Rosenfeld on June 19, 2012, 05:41:23 AM

That's not true. The main problem isn't reusing addresses, it's merging outputs.

+1, instawallet FTW

The fact its online does not mean its secure. Security thru ob-security does not work. *sigh*

Your password is security through obscurity, so yes, it does work.

proudhon

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Quote from: Bro on June 19, 2012, 05:34:30 AM

Quote

Donate by Bitcoin

Bitcoin is a secure and anonymous digital currency. Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you, and are safer and faster alternative to other donation methods. You can send BTC to the following address:

1HB5XMLmzFVj8ALj6mfBsbifRoD4miY36v

Various sites offer a service to exchange other currency to/from Bitcoins. There are also services allowing trades of goods for Bitcoins. Bitcoins are not subject to central regulations and are still gaining value. To learn more about Bitcoins, visit the website (http://bitcoin.org) or read more on Wikipedia.

For maximum security and anonymity, you can request a one-time Bitcoin address. To do so, please join our IRC and type /msg Bitcoin new. Our helpful bot will generate a new donation address for each transaction. Please make sure Bot is active on #bitcoin channel and has @ to the left of his nick.

http://shop.wikileaks.org/donate#dbitcoin

WTF, right? Bitoins are highly traceable
and coming from wikileaks, nothing less.

So, let's do an experiment. Here's a transaction that I just randomly picked to Wikileak's public address as you posted it above. And here's the request: Identify the person who made that transaction.

GO!

Topic: wikileaks "Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you" WTF?? (Read 3004 times)