Bitcoins are a currency. It only becomes a type of "scheme" if we keep linking it to Fiat currencies.
IF the time comes where WE decide the a BITCOIN is a BITCOIN and people that buy and sell goods for Bitcoins keep fixed prices (accounting for inflation) then the market volatility will go AWAY.
People are treating Bitcoins more like Stock instead of a currency. Until people change the way they use Bitcoins, there will be volatility.
Topic: Will anyone admit that bitcoin is looking like a sophisticated ponzi scheme? - page 3. (Read 5738 times)
April 10, 2014, 09:30:32 PM
April 10, 2014, 08:51:51 PM
It more closely resembles a pyramid scheme (but so does every other commodity ever traded).
Government currencies are ponzi schemes because when they collapse the central banks come out rich.
Government currencies are ponzi schemes because when they collapse the central banks come out rich.
So wrong. Commodities are priced on supply & demand. Soybeans, oil, coal..all these commodities are priced on supply demand. Not pyramid at all
Government currencies are not Ponzi. Ponzi is taking in new investment money to pay earlier investors. Giving them the impression the investment is profitable so they invest more money.
In fairness BTC is not a Ponzi either. Its a pump & dump. Early investors try to draw in new investors to drive up price so they can dump their holdings
Ahhh so nice to be young and naive...
April 10, 2014, 08:50:23 PM
time dude time. cant fight progress. they'll be plenty of incentives for using bitcoins.
I doubt it. Like I said, most people will never own Bitcoins and they honestly don't need to. The double-spend problem has been solved. The tech can be duplicated and enhanced in an infinite number of ways now. At this point, there is nothing unique about Bitcoin other than it was first. Any merchant accepting Bitcoin can easily accept an alternative and they will move to that which consumers deem useful, which means it needs to be available. And of course, not taxed as property. That's just a non-starter.
April 10, 2014, 08:43:49 PM
April 10, 2014, 08:42:53 PM
You see, it doesn't matter how high you can pump the price of something, if it's not useful to people, they won't use it. It's as simple as that.
yeaa... wait until you'll get to save transaction fees from the average products and services you buy.. worldwide..
Most people don't buy worldwide, they buy local. On top of that, Bitcoin's not useful because it is poorly distributed and slow. For remittences, there are already better options. Just because Bitcoin was first, doesn't mean it will be here in the end. As a long time Bitcoin bear, none of this is surprising. It was inevitable. People can't spend, what they don't have.
well, one of the major groceries stores from where i live is going to implement bitcoin payments within this year.
So. How many people have Bitcoin where you live? People just don't seem to get it. Look how many merchants have joined since the $1200 run up. Did it matter? No, because nobody has Bitcoins to spend and those that do have them are holding. But it makes sense, why in the hell would you spend a deflationary currency?
time dude time. cant fight progress. they'll be plenty of incentives for using bitcoins.
April 10, 2014, 08:39:05 PM
You see, it doesn't matter how high you can pump the price of something, if it's not useful to people, they won't use it. It's as simple as that.
yeaa... wait until you'll get to save transaction fees from the average products and services you buy.. worldwide..
Most people don't buy worldwide, they buy local. On top of that, Bitcoin's not useful because it is poorly distributed and slow. For remittences, there are already better options. Just because Bitcoin was first, doesn't mean it will be here in the end. As a long time Bitcoin bear, none of this is surprising. It was inevitable. People can't spend, what they don't have.
well, one of the major groceries stores from where i live is going to implement bitcoin payments within this year.
So. How many people have Bitcoin where you live? People just don't seem to get it. Look how many merchants have joined since the $1200 run up. Did it matter? No, because nobody has Bitcoins to spend and those that do have them are holding. But it makes sense, why in the hell would you spend a deflationary currency?
April 10, 2014, 08:32:21 PM
You see, it doesn't matter how high you can pump the price of something, if it's not useful to people, they won't use it. It's as simple as that.
yeaa... wait until you'll get to save transaction fees from the average products and services you buy.. worldwide..
Most people don't buy worldwide, they buy local. On top of that, Bitcoin's not useful because it is poorly distributed and slow. For remittences, there are already better options. Just because Bitcoin was first, doesn't mean it will be here in the end. As a long time Bitcoin bear, none of this is surprising. It was inevitable. People can't spend, what they don't have.
well, one of the major groceries stores from where i live is going to implement bitcoin payments within this year.
April 10, 2014, 08:26:43 PM
You see, it doesn't matter how high you can pump the price of something, if it's not useful to people, they won't use it. It's as simple as that.
yeaa... wait until you'll get to save transaction fees from the average products and services you buy.. worldwide..
Most people don't buy worldwide, they buy local. On top of that, Bitcoin's not useful because it is poorly distributed and slow. For remittences, there are already better options. Just because Bitcoin was first, doesn't mean it will be here in the end. As a long time Bitcoin bear, none of this is surprising. It was inevitable. People can't spend, what they don't have.
April 10, 2014, 08:15:19 PM
You see, it doesn't matter how high you can pump the price of something, if it's not useful to people, they won't use it. It's as simple as that.
yeaa... wait until you'll get to save transaction fees from the average products and services you buy.. worldwide..
April 10, 2014, 08:00:29 PM
I think ponzi is the wrong term. It more resembles a pyramid. Not the tech, that's irrelevant but the way it's promoted is 100% pyramid. That's why it doesn't matter how many businesses "accept" Bitcoin, the price keeps falling. Nobody is buying and certainly not to use as a transactional currency. Greed killed Bitcoin and better alternatives, with better distribution will reign. You see, it doesn't matter how high you can pump the price of something, if it's not useful to people, they won't use it. It's as simple as that.
Greed killed Bitcoin and better alternatives, with better distribution will reign. You see, it doesn't matter how high you can pump the price of something, if it's not useful to people, they won't use it. It's as simple as that. April 10, 2014, 07:43:11 PM
yes, it is digital fiat tbh
April 10, 2014, 07:14:02 PM
Pushing a digital coin which doesn't offer anything unique vs the other unlimited alt coins.
I does have something unique and very important: a lot of places to spend it
Most alts have little more than a few exchanges and maybe a dice game, but bitcoin has many businesses that accept it, which gives it use as something other than just a speculating game.
April 10, 2014, 07:03:28 PM
So I've been using Ed as a contrarian indicator...
Expect BITCOIN TO DA MOON any day now.
trolololo
Expect BITCOIN TO DA MOON any day now.
trolololo
April 10, 2014, 06:46:08 PM
Yes ... ponzi because we (the people) is only on the top left on the screen (green cloud).
http://imageshack.com/a/img716/2961/sd3g.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img716/2961/sd3g.jpg
April 10, 2014, 06:37:30 PM
Our monetary system is the biggest Ponzi scheme around.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0
April 10, 2014, 06:36:29 PM
Just wondering if anyone has changed their ideas yet about bitcoin?
All you have read over the last months and even today is people saying how you will get rich etc. To buy buy buy.
Pushing a digital coin which doesn't offer anything unique vs the other unlimited alt coins.
A digital coin that doesn't do anything better than fiat.
The ultimate sophisticated Ponzi scheme, so sophisticated you can even argue that it isn't a Ponzi scheme.
Anyone brave enough to admit it or will we only have the cheerleaders in here posting how bitcoin is going to the moon.
All you have read over the last months and even today is people saying how you will get rich etc. To buy buy buy.
Pushing a digital coin which doesn't offer anything unique vs the other unlimited alt coins.
A digital coin that doesn't do anything better than fiat.
The ultimate sophisticated Ponzi scheme, so sophisticated you can even argue that it isn't a Ponzi scheme.
Anyone brave enough to admit it or will we only have the cheerleaders in here posting how bitcoin is going to the moon.
Have you stopped beating your wife yet?
Wait, what? The beating was supposed to stop?
April 10, 2014, 06:31:14 PM
Go away ed.
What an in depth and sophisticated response from this user
April 10, 2014, 06:30:58 PM
It more closely resembles a pyramid scheme (but so does every other commodity ever traded).
yep, like gold, silver and stocks.
April 10, 2014, 06:29:28 PM
No, it is not a ponzi scheme. 
April 10, 2014, 06:28:12 PM
It more closely resembles a pyramid scheme (but so does every other commodity ever traded).
Government currencies are ponzi schemes because when they collapse the central banks come out rich.
Government currencies are ponzi schemes because when they collapse the central banks come out rich.
So wrong. Commodities are priced on supply & demand. Soybeans, oil, coal..all these commodities are priced on supply demand. Not pyramid at all
Government currencies are not Ponzi. Ponzi is taking in new investment money to pay earlier investors. Giving them the impression the investment is profitable so they invest more money.
In fairness BTC is not a Ponzi either. Its a pump & dump. Early investors try to draw in new investors to drive up price so they can dump their holdings
Is Bitcoin priced on a principle other than supply and demand? The pyramid scheme isn't imbued into the commodity being traded. The distribution of availability creates a pyramidal distribution. Each traded commodity has groups and organizations that drive the markets; look at gold, silver, and oil as examples.
The government ponzi doesn't ask for a voluntary investment; they do however take money to pay the earlier investors (treasury bonds). It is a Ponzi scheme, just one with the ability to force investment of wealth with higher taxes, inflation of the money supply, etc...
Its based on supply demand. But my reply was to correct the guy who said "all commodities are pyramids". They are not. A pyramid is you invest $100 and when you bring in 5 other investors you get $500 in return. What I said was BTC is a pump & dump
I'll have to agree to disagree that's not what Ponzi scheme means so you can't apply that to govt currency. In a Ponzi scheme is investors are paid on supposed profit but the money actually coming in from new investors
It looks as if the communication broke down between us; I communicate very literally. When I wrote "It more closely resembles a pyramid scheme (but so does every other commodity ever traded)." I literally meant that every commodity is subject to the same uneven distribution. The majority of every commodity is in the hands of a few, then the pyramid forms on top of that.
When I mentioned the resemblance to a pyramid scheme I wasn't insinuating that the pyramid is formed from a malicious intent. Bringing in more investment capitol into any traded commodity will increase the potential return.
I will accept the "agree to disagree" on the government Ponzi. When I look at a Ponzi scheme, I see a chain between the creator of a Ponzi and the rest of the investors; the money always funnels from the bottom towards the top. The Federal Reserve is a singular organization funneling value from everybody else. The income tax revenue is given to the Fed, the income tax is an involuntary investment which is used to pad the pockets of a single group. I consider that a Ponzi...
Income tax isn't used for any other purpose but to pay the Fed; every beneficial use of tax money is drawn from various Sales taxes or specific and separately defined employment taxes.
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