will asic's kill bitcoin ? | Bitcointalksearch.org

AlgoSwan

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ancap

Quote from: HappyBitCoinUser on April 18, 2013, 07:23:33 PM

If you had an ASIC that could make you $1k/day would you give it up? Or even advertise you have it?

If I have an ASIC that could make me $1k/day I wouldn't give it up, but advertise it to get/make more ASICs and earn $50k/day,,, whenever I decide its time to deliver, I can sell all my BTC and create a panic sell on the exchanges and start delivering orders. Sound familiar?

HappyBitCoinUser

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If you had an ASIC that could make you $1k/day would you give it up? Or even advertise you have it?

They will get rich, everyone else will lose money on electric bills.

GG

w00t

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on April 17, 2013, 01:55:36 PM

ASICs have always existed.

The "good guys" not using them doesn't somehow prohibit the bad guys from using them.

Today to attack the network with GPUs would probably take $50M+. Is someone going to spend $50M? No of course not they will spend maybe $1M and 99.9% the network.

Not using ASICs makes about as much sense as "a criminal with a gun could hurt me, so I won't carry a gun I will carry a knife that way if someone robs me, he can't have a gun and I will be safe"

Yeah you are most likely right. Those numbers - 50M and such, did you do some calculations for your self or is it just guesswork?

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

ASICs have always existed.

The "good guys" not using them doesn't somehow prohibit the bad guys from using them.

Today to attack the network with GPUs would probably take $50M+. Is someone going to spend $50M on warehouses of GPUs? No of course not they will spend maybe $1M or so on ASICs and 99.9% the network.

Not using ASICs makes about as much sense as "a criminal with a gun could hurt me, so I won't carry a gun I will carry a knife that way if someone robs me, he can't have a gun and I will be safe"

Meman

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If the ASIC's will ever be delivered is a speculation too.

zeroday

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ASICs owned by a single monopoly will kill bitcoin.
ASICs dispersed among thousands of individual miners will make bitcoin stronger.

evilscoop

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Quote from: b!z on April 17, 2013, 09:03:08 AM

The ignorant OP obviously doesn't understand this concept.

ignorant is a bit uncalled for, for a misunderstanding...
obviously is also an over used term....its only obvious if you already know the answer...

Quote

yeah ok running out was a silly point to make....

and please note, ive not been here long im still finding my feet and info...be more considerate plz

b!z

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Quote from: fitty on April 17, 2013, 08:01:34 AM

If anything, ASIC might save Bitcoin.

ASIC is good. Hashing power protects the network from certain types of attacks.

When hashing power goes up, difficulty goes up to match it. So ASIC won't suddenly jump us to 21M coins, the projections don't change all that much.

ASIC uses less power, it gives "average people" access to a lot of hashing power, which will decentralize it even more. The problem with lots of GPU hashing, it's hot, noisy, and burns a lot of power. Most people, even with the money, couldn't go setup 8-10-15G of GPU hashing.

Soon people will be able to run 20-40-60G of hasing, cheaply, which is good for everyone.

The ignorant OP obviously doesn't understand this concept.

fitty

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CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!

If anything, ASIC might save Bitcoin.

ASIC is good. Hashing power protects the network from certain types of attacks.

When hashing power goes up, difficulty goes up to match it. So ASIC won't suddenly jump us to 21M coins, the projections don't change all that much.

ASIC uses less power, it gives "average people" access to a lot of hashing power, which will decentralize it even more. The problem with lots of GPU hashing, it's hot, noisy, and burns a lot of power. Most people, even with the money, couldn't go setup 8-10-15G of GPU hashing.

Soon people will be able to run 20-40-60G of hasing, cheaply, which is good for everyone.

evilscoop

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rephrase, there is no bfl plz
avalon have shipped have they not, so there is asic

JimiQ84

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Quote from: HappyBitCoinUser on April 17, 2013, 07:35:04 AM

There is no ASIC

Care to explain this?

AlgoSwan

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ancap

It can't kill BTC. But I'm not so sure about GPUs. They really need to innovate to survive on this.

HappyBitCoinUser

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There is no ASIC

evilscoop

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Been looking at that little thing
that tinyhasher is up my street if I can drive it from a rasp pi ill be a happy bunny Cheesy

Evan happier if it can be over clocked Cheesy

rudrigorc2

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Quote from: w00t on April 17, 2013, 06:34:29 AM

Here is 1M USD printed by Bernanke. Go get some of those tools (ASIC Butterfly)

I hope they do that, we all be safe if they buy from BFL, maybe they are already in pre order? How does that feel, Bernanke?

if bitcoin price does not go up and if manufacturers flood the world with asic chips fast not allowing the first buyers to mine ASICS can kill the mining ROI for future mining investors. but, talking reality, batch1 owners now are, to not say rich, very satisfied with their returns, and I think batch2 and batch3 will pay off good. bfl might start shipping, asicminer already has the tinyhasher, I hope everybody now get access to more and more efficient asics that way the blockchain is safe

w00t

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Quote from: Qoheleth on April 17, 2013, 03:21:48 AM

....
custom solution. But for a theoretical attacker with millions of dollars to spend, they were an option from the beginning. Until we adopt ASICs, we are vulnerable. As long as mining is mostly a custom garage hobbyist thing, capital can crush us.

This.

This is what I was wondering a long time. If the ASIC is either a benefit or a drawback for the community around Bitcoin.

The point is if it is now only about money. Aren't we even more vulnerable?

You know - now it really came down to - let's make a killing (or let's kill this). Here is 1M USD printed by Bernanke. Go get some of those tools (ASIC Butterfly) and plug it into electricity plug over there (high school student can do that). Wait for several hours. Profit - Bitcoin is gone. And it did only cost 1M - that's really nothing.

evilscoop

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yeah ok running out was a silly point to make....

Im just ranting really, rich get richer etc etc and wishing id kept my mining rig running from years ago...

Thx for the reply's

arepo

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this statement is false

Quote from: Qoheleth on April 17, 2013, 03:22:36 AM

Quote from: arepo on April 17, 2013, 03:16:27 AM

the main misconception here is that the total hashing power of the network corresponds with how quickly bitcoins are mined.

Nah. There were a couple misconceptions in the OP, but that's not one of them.

Quote from: evilscoop on April 17, 2013, 03:03:28 AM

so difficulty will increase to silly amounts, but people will expand the asic clusters to compensate

but...

Quote from: evilscoop on April 17, 2013, 03:03:28 AM

Will we not run out of bitcoins to mine within 4 years or so... ?

Qoheleth

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Spurn wild goose chases. Seek that which endures.

Quote from: arepo on April 17, 2013, 03:16:27 AM

the main misconception here is that the total hashing power of the network corresponds with how quickly bitcoins are mined.

Nah. There were a couple misconceptions in the OP, but that's not one of them.

Quote from: evilscoop on April 17, 2013, 03:03:28 AM

so difficulty will increase to silly amounts, but people will expand the asic clusters to compensate

Qoheleth

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Spurn wild goose chases. Seek that which endures.

You're missing a couple essential concepts.

First: valuing "geekiness" is counterproductive. The point, the whole point, the sole point of mining is to outvote the computing power of an attacker trying to disrupt the economy via double-spend attacks. ASICs provide hashpower that cannot be matched with any more custom solution. But for a theoretical attacker with millions of dollars to spend, they were an option from the beginning. Until we adopt ASICs, we are vulnerable. As long as mining is mostly a custom garage hobbyist thing, capital can crush us.

Second: you seem to expect that if we mined the first half of the bitcoins in four years, we'll mine the second half in another four years. What you seem to misunderstand here is that the block reward drops every time you mine half of the remaining coins. Coins are being created half as fast now (25BTC/block) compared to how fast they were being created at the beginning (50BTC/block). We cannot run out until a number of blocks have been created equal to perhaps twenty or thirty times the number of blocks that exist today. There's no danger of somehow killing the golden goose in anything approaching the near future.

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