Will Bitcoin client do direct peer-peer coin exchange - page 2.

maaku

legendary

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Merit: 1012

Quote from: BurtW on January 20, 2014, 06:20:12 PM

Someone has to go first.

They are on different protocols.

This is incorrect. See, for example, CoinSwap and the atomic exchange contract on the bitcoin wiki as ways this could be done now.

Also, with protocol extensions the limitations of these techniques could be worked around as well.

StevenS

full member

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Merit: 100

The only way I can see this working is if there is a kind of transaction (tx) that depends on a tx from a different protocol. That is:

tx1: Send X BTC to wallet two if and only if there is a tx2 (which has to be allowed to be attached after tx1 is signed) that meets certain parameters, such that it sends Y altcoin from altwallet two to altwallet one. Part of tx1 has to be a "timeout" value that either cancels the transaction, or sends the BTC somewhere else if tx2 doesn't happen.

After the owner of wallet two sees tx1 on the network, he could then issue tx2, which would do the altcoin transfer and also be attached somehow to the Bitcoin blockchain.

The problem is that this would greatly complicate the Bitcoin protocol. I have trouble seeing how something like this could be made generic enough for arbitrary altcoins.

I would guess that there is a .01% chance of this happening.

coinbridge

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

Quote from: BurtW on January 20, 2014, 07:04:39 PM

Quote from: coinbridge on January 20, 2014, 06:55:16 PM

The question always is: who sends first?

That's when middlemen step in, but that's the old world way!

I can see crypto-fiat trade in that fashion because there are no options.

But inter-crypto trades going through centralized exchanges is a disgrace.

It's deeply unsatisfying to see that, especially the solution is very simple for crytocurrencies. I don't know why Bitcoin does not have this feature. May be it never anticipated the viability of altcoins.

So, you already have a solution to the "who goes first" issue? Can you describe it please.

I'll describe it that after I get some responses to my original question.

coinbridge

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

Quote from: BurtW on January 20, 2014, 06:44:55 PM

I do not see a way to do it without escrow because someone has to go first or you have a deadlock - see my post above.

Maybe someone smarter than I can help you out.

Yes you can do it without escrow. I just want to know if Bitcoin or any altcoins already have it in the plan so I'm not wasting my time.

BurtW

legendary

Activity: 2646

Merit: 1137

All paid signature campaigns should be banned.

Quote from: coinbridge on January 20, 2014, 06:55:16 PM

The question always is: who sends first?

That's when middlemen step in, but that's the old world way!

I can see crypto-fiat trade in that fashion because there are no options.

But inter-crypto trades going through centralized exchanges is a disgrace.

It's deeply unsatisfying to see that, especially the solution is very simple for crytocurrencies. I don't know why Bitcoin does not have this feature. May be it never anticipated the viability of altcoins.

So, you already have a solution to the "who goes first" issue? Can you describe it please.

coinbridge

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

The question always is: who sends first?

That's when middlemen step in, but that's the old world way!

I can see crypto-fiat trade in that fashion because there are no options.

But inter-crypto trades going through centralized exchanges is a disgrace.

It's deeply unsatisfying to see that, especially the solution is very simple for crytocurrencies. I don't know why Bitcoin does not have this feature. May be it never anticipated the viability of altcoins.

BurtW

legendary

Activity: 2646

Merit: 1137

All paid signature campaigns should be banned.

I do not see a way to do it without escrow because someone has to go first or you have a deadlock - see my post above.

Maybe someone smarter than I can help you out.

coinbridge

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

Yes but I want to do it without going through a centralized exchange. The trade needs to be direct peer to peer, no escrow accounts and so on. There can be a website where people post offers and bids and make deals but the actual exchange are purely between their wallets.

BurtW

legendary

Activity: 2646

Merit: 1137

All paid signature campaigns should be banned.

I assume you are asking for the following:

Wallet one: send X BTC to wallet two but only after getting Y crapcoins.

Wallet two: send Y crapcoins to wallet one but only after getting X BTC.

Someone has to go first.

They are on different protocols.

Now I could see someone offering a web site escrow service that would do something like this.

Wallet one: put X BTC in escrow at the escrow site, waiting on Y crapcoins.

Wallet two: put Y crapcoins in escrow at the escrow site, waiting on X BTC.

Escrow site: when both parts of the escrow are confirmed, send Y crapcoins to wallet one (minus a fee) and send X BTC to wallet two (minus a fee).

coinbridge

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

Is there a plan in the future Bitcoin versions to implement a function to allow the user to directly trade Bitcoins with altcoins without the "take and run" risk? I see this as a valuable feature and wonder if it's already built into the current Bitcoin protocol or it can be easily added to the current client via an API.

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