Topic: Will bitcoins become illegal? (Read 5671 times)

I'll just leave this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number

Definitely. The Hidden Wiki clearly states this. http://3suaolltfj2xjksb.onion/hiddenwiki/index.php?title=Girls
 

this is the exact point i was trying to make. because they will never like it, it's useless to try and make them like it (aka paying taxes, following regulation).

when you run a gigantic exchange like mtgox or bitinstant then yes you should probably legitimize your business, but i somehow doubt you are grossing as much as they are. in the "fortune 500" companies of bitcoin you would ideally want those to be legal businesses that pay taxes, but your definition of a business is too formal. you can open an anonymously hosted website on tor (or not) and open anonymous bank accounts and funding sources to turn your btc into cash. it's the same thing as your "real business" you run now, but you make 20% more money because you don't pay taxes, plus you cannot be shut down regardless of how big you get. if you had the influence that a gigantic exchange does then yes you give BTC more of a bad name (but giving it a bad name is not necessarily a bad thing).

just look at silk road. their profits are estimated to be in the tens of millions annually, and the website has only done positive things for bitcoin. once you get past the initial shock that a massive drug trading website exists, like out of a fairy tale, you realize it has probably done more for bitcoin then bitinstant ever has.

you really dont need to cater to the legitimate side of things my man. the government can do whatever they want and their opinion on the matter is irrelevant. they cannot shut down bitcoin, they cannot shut down your business if configured properly, and there is hardly a reason to pay taxes on any of this.

there will never be a day in which you can go into a walmart and pay with bitcoin, this I guarantee you. 

The government will never be happy with a currency they cannot directly control. Even if people attempt to placate them with tax payments, they can't directly control the money supply and it's pseudonymous, they will never like that.

Likely depends on the jurisdiction. In the U.S., I doubt they will ever be outright illegal. Exchanging them for fiat, OTOH...

well now your looking at it as one section of the community. I agree the users that don't own a business or don't make an income in bitcoins. It is ok not to pay taxes on them, until you convert it to your fiat currency, which is called the capital gains  tax. When your a business owner and your income is only bitcoins, I could easily say I made $0 which would be true, but I don't. I hope people don't treat bitcoins as an offshore account or as you put as a tax free heaven. Stuff like this makes it harder to put money into bitcoins which is important right now. Bitinstant could easily say they don't want to pay for the licensing but they do cause in the overall benefits the community. That is all I am saying is lets think like a community and not an individual. Of course you do what you want, but it just hurts people like me running and starting up business. Believe me I look and see my taxes going out it doesn't make me happy. But in my mind I say this is what is needed for the community currently. Also where did you get the number 99% don't pay taxes, cause a lot of legitimate business owners do. I would almost bet every single user of bitpay conversation tool from BTC to USD pay taxes. That is a lot of people.

"money" laundering is illegal yes, but bitcoin is not money.

considering 99% of the bitcoin community does not pay taxes on their coins, i think your point of view, while not laughable, is not going to go a long ways

there is really no reason to try and legitimize bitcoins with government. you can't create a secondary currency where tax and business laws are a gray area and make the government happy with their existence. it will piss them off no matter what you do, just go about your business and be grateful for this tax free heaven that exists in 2013

You completely wrong, money laundering is illegal, and people that use bitcoin as such are just going to hurt what the other community members are working so hard for. So while I am not going to say not to do that, I am just going to say think about the community and not yourself.

and that's the beauty in them
legal money laundering

regardless all my coins are cashed out anonymously, as should anyones

That's why we love bitcoins!

Until you convert them into USD or some other tangible asset, they're not considered any more taxable than a pile of chuck-e-cheese tokens would be - unless of course you received them in exchange for some kind of goods or service, then they would be income at whatever the rate was when you accepted them.

I was talking about when you convert to dollars or any fiat currency, you should be paying taxes on the gains. But if you own a business you should be doing your books as if you were getting dollars, and paying taxes on your income. Currently for me my only income is bitcoins yet I still pay my taxes on those coins.

you couldnt pay taxes on bitcoins even if you wanted to. i have 495349 coins in my wallet, what address do I send my 30% to pay for taxes?

The key to keeping bitcoins legal, is to work with governments and respect their regulations. As I have stated many times before just cause we have the power to not pay taxes, or not follow regulations, doesn't mean we should. We should only execute that power in critical situations. Currently working with the government to help them understand what and how bitcoin works, is the best thing we can do.

in essence they already are

Actually, they only become nonexistent when the very last copy of the blockchain is non-recoverably erased from the very last hard drive of the very last bitcoin node. As long as a single copy exists somewhere in the world, the bitcoin network will reconfigure itself automatically as nodes are reconnected. It is as resilient as the internet itself.

Making bitcoins illegal in any given jurisdiction would be about as pointless as making TCP/IP or electrons illegal. Bitcoin just don't care.  

Please lead by example.

True

The complexity that you see and admire I see as a web of deceit spun to lull the population into a position of complacency. I am fairly well off and really want for nothing. I could drive down the street stopping at traffic lights and roll up my window when a homeless person walks by with a sign but instead I give him a few bucks. I wonder how many homeless we could feed with just one less aircraft carrier. I drive from Oakland to San Leandro and see the horrible poverty and wonder why we can't change it. Then I turn on the TV and see reports of the masses of money that my government wastes. I watched WAMU, Wachovia, Merill Lynch, IndyMac and many more go bankrupt from greed and mismanagement. The government makes sweetheart deals with company's like Chase to take over the failed branches, wipes out the mortgage debt, bails out the auto makers all using my wallet. I read about organizations like the CIA that have secret budgets and new agencies like DHS that are set on controlling the masses. All these things add up to a far less than magical system that desperately needs to change. The Occupy Movement is made up of people that see the inequity and mismanagement but they are too few in number to really make a difference. These problems are happening worldwide too.

Bitcoin might not be the solution but it's a place to start. Bitcoin can't feed the homeless but it might be able to take funding away from greedy banks and corrupt governments. I'm sick of my government telling me what to do when they clearly don't know what they're doing. I intend to support Bitcoin as long as it remains a system powered by individuals free from government abuse and control. They're going to attack Bitcoin. What lies around the corner is a very rough road but a survivable one.