Will central bank digital currency (CBDC) make bitcoin worthless? - page 2.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on January 20, 2022, 07:38:01 AM

You are assuming that CBDC will be like stablecoins but owned by government, but this is very unlikely. Governments are not going to let people have full control over their own money, so you won't be able to do cross-chain swaps between Bitcoin and CBDC without intermediaries.

Converting between BTC and fiat is really not a problem for users, there are even Visa/Mastercard cards that allow you to use your crypto exchange balance to pay anywhere.

I’m assuming that the Central Banks will keep BRRR-printing more fiat into existence, in the form of both paper money AND CBDC, to inflate their balance sheets. It doesn’t only make the black hole of Bitcoin suck more value, it also makes the value of the narrative for Bitcoin’s 21 million supply cap much higher in my opinion.

KaliLinux

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Quote from: henryvuong on January 20, 2022, 01:07:14 AM

There have been talks about central bank digital currency (CBDC), a kind of cryptocurrency that is backed by a central bank. Recently, China is rolling out digital yuan, its own version of CBDC (curiously, it's not using blockchain). Even though China is not the first country to have its CBDC, it's the first major economy to do so. Some people argue that CBDC will make bitcoin become obsolete, as in this article:
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4418567-bitcoin-china-launched-digital-yuan-and-will-change-everything

People who support this view fail to realize that, while CBDC has some characteristics of a cryptocurrency, it is still very much a fiat currency. It can be inflated whenever the government wants to. It is not anomymous (one of the features that crypto users prefer). Users of CBDC do not have the freedom as crypto users do. CBDC may be a great contribution to the economy, but it will not replace bitcoin. In fact, I believe that CBDC may even make bitcoin more valuable. Why? Because with CBDC, it's easier to convert bitcoin to CBDC and vice versa, so people who hold bitcoin may not even need to use an exchange to convert their BTC to fiat, and people who want to buy bitcoin can easily do peer-to-peer transaction without using a bank account.

I long for the day when the Federal Reserve issues the digital dollar. It will make conversion between bitcoin and USD even easier, and we may not need to use an exchange service.

What do you think?

Any country that has introduced its own CBDC check if there is a different value from the CBDC against their fiat currency. There are both one and the same only that they want to pretend that is their own type of cryptocurrency but in reality, it has nothing similar to the cryptocurrency. My own country is one of such where our government is against crypto trading and with the introduction of the CBDC, crypto is still trending amongst not just the youths now but there are even some private schools that accept Bitcoin back before the Government made that announcement and again, CBDC don't have any effect on Bitcoin.

oHnK

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Quote from: fiulpro on January 20, 2022, 11:53:05 AM

CBDC'S are not cryptocurrencies, they are not even decentralized for that matters, I don't even know what good it will be considering we already have Visa and other form of online payment available, the visa company have a few problems right now considering their High fee but I do think that it would be sorted out soon enough. The Altcoins are not able to touch bitcoins despite all their efforts what makes you think that the digitalization of fiat would do something new? I do think that everyone is trying to move to a digitalized future meaning the companies are the government are bringing out something like the tokens but at the end I do think that how it works out depends on how people take it as, which would not be remotely close to bitcoins.

I also think that CBDC is only presented to threaten the existence of crypto because the government has been very disturbed by the results of this innovation, the reason is because of the bubble that was created. How can BI be able to easily raise large amounts of funds under the guise of an unreasonable transaction. Again, due to its prestige, it is only natural that CBDC will beat Crypto because that was the initial sale.

Leviathan.007

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Not at all and these two are not even directly related together because the central bank digital currency is not a cryptocurrency and there is a big difference between digital currencies and cryptocurrencies the important thing is digital currencies are centralized and the total supply can be changed by the owner and the government behind it they can also check and change the transactions and that's not what the investors want, so I think these two are not related to together at all.

fiulpro

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CBDC'S are not cryptocurrencies, they are not even decentralized for that matters, I don't even know what good it will be considering we already have Visa and other form of online payment available, the visa company have a few problems right now considering their High fee but I do think that it would be sorted out soon enough. The Altcoins are not able to touch bitcoins despite all their efforts what makes you think that the digitalization of fiat would do something new? I do think that everyone is trying to move to a digitalized future meaning the companies are the government are bringing out something like the tokens but at the end I do think that how it works out depends on how people take it as, which would not be remotely close to bitcoins.

dothebeats

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I don't think bitcoin or any other crypto for that matter, will succumb once CBDCs come out. CBDCs are, in essence, just your fiat currency existing on the digital realm. Way easier to mint, way easier to change its specifications. Also, people would still know the difference between cryptocurrencies and CBDCs that it will not matter much to them. There are already deep roots thriving within the ecosystem, and deep pockets already involved in the game that will surely not want to see bitcoin fail.

savetheFORUM

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Quote from: henryvuong on January 20, 2022, 01:07:14 AM

People who support this view fail to realize that, while CBDC has some characteristics of a cryptocurrency, it is still very much a fiat currency. It can be inflated whenever the government wants to. It is not anomymous (one of the features that crypto users prefer). Users of CBDC do not have the freedom as crypto users do. CBDC may be a great contribution to the economy, but it will not replace bitcoin. In fact, I believe that CBDC may even make bitcoin more valuable. Why? Because with CBDC, it's easier to convert bitcoin to CBDC and vice versa, so people who hold bitcoin may not even need to use an exchange to convert their BTC to fiat, and people who want to buy bitcoin can easily do peer-to-peer transaction without using a bank account.

It is not even possible for CBDC to make Bitcoin useless or replacing it, Bitcoin has been here for more than a decade without any major threat since it was introduced and it will continue to be same here among many CBDCs by governments across the globe.

Importantly, the CBDC currency is totally centralized against what cryptocurrency should be because the government will always have control on our transactions and may track and filter out easily with the help of CBDC. But, on a positive note CBDC will help growing the awareness of bitcoin to the average man in the society.

OcTradism

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[GUIDE] All About Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC)

After you read that topic and hyperlinked articles, I believe that you will have deeper insights about CBDCs. Then you will understand that fiats, CBDCs are only make inflation worse.

Bitcoin is a store-of-value asset so that it can be a very good weapon against inflation and fiats, CBDCs. You are saying oppositely to the truth.

Husires

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Competition does not make something worthless, but rather less valuable, as the success of digital currencies will not make the value of Bitcoin zero.
What will make bitcoin worthless is either there will be a problem that cannot be solved in the code, such as access to the private key, or the absence of adoption so that no one wants to buy and invest in bitcoin.

So by making Bitcoin worthless, the chain will die and a problem with the code will occur. Other than that, there is nothing that makes Bitcoin worthless.

nullama

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AFAIK any kind of CBDC is just a digital version of what they're doing already, which is controlling the supply.

Bitcoin is decentralized, no one gets to decide there will be more or less bitcoin, the generation of new coins is established and known to everyone in advance.

CBDC is just a way to print money more efficiently.

kryptqnick

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Currencies like digital yuan are competing against fiat, not cryptos. It's a digital version of fiat, and it's not aiming to grow in value or be a good trading asset. It's merely a way of moving transactions within your country to the next level and to keep track of them in a new way. So no matter how many people in China use this CBDC, it doesn't mean anything for people who are into decentralized cryptocurrencies. As of November, it wasn't even available to people who aren't Chinese citizens, and it's still sort on in the testing mode, which, by the way, doesn't seem to be going well because the transaction volume remains low. Having nominal users is one thing, but having people actively use it is another.

Smartvirus

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Quote from: Bttzed03 on January 20, 2022, 06:07:46 AM

Yeah not BTC but CBDCs could make stable coins worthless. Maybe even XRP because I remember they were boasting about their partnership/collaboration with banking institutions before. Bank customers would probably prefer using a CDBC than USDT for reasons pointed out by @pooya87. In addition to that, banks would likely offer CBDC for their crypto custodial services.

Not entirely if the stablecoins operates on a decentralized system. That's one of the points that makes crypto strong as, one can stay off the hook of government and financial institutions. That its pegged with fiat doesn't necessarily make it centralised or its value equations as such. Decentralisation is one key approach to look at it and would save it. Another point is,

Given the fact that, these coins, BTC, Altcoins and Stable coins or even, the idea of cryptos is that, it could be used anywhere in the world. It distinctively attains the aim of a global currency so long as, you can fund a merchant who owns a wallet for such cryptocurrency and is willing to take payment using such media.

This is one thing that CBDN currency can't attain and its very much centralised.

hatshepsut93

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You are assuming that CBDC will be like stablecoins but owned by government, but this is very unlikely. Governments are not going to let people have full control over their own money, so you won't be able to do cross-chain swaps between Bitcoin and CBDC without intermediaries.

Converting between BTC and fiat is really not a problem for users, there are even Visa/Mastercard cards that allow you to use your crypto exchange balance to pay anywhere.

Wind_FURY

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OP, no. Users of shitcoins like CBDC and worthless fiat always find their path to convert them to hard money, Bitcoin, and HODL. But “What is hard money” is different for some people. Some people say it’s Bitcoin, other people say it’s Gold. Whatever it is, it’s not CBDC. CBDC will make Bitcoin more valuable.

Bttzed03

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Yeah not BTC but CBDCs could make stable coins worthless. Maybe even XRP because I remember they were boasting about their partnership/collaboration with banking institutions before. Bank customers would probably prefer using a CDBC than USDT for reasons pointed out by @pooya87. In addition to that, banks would likely offer CBDC for their crypto custodial services.

pooya87

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on January 20, 2022, 03:27:23 AM

A CBDC is not a crypto currency.

A crypto currency is a digital form of currency that uses cryptography and blockchain technology. With that definition a CBDC can be categorized as a cryptocurrency too but it is a centralized one similar to other centralized altcoins like Tether but with a lot less risk since it is created and controlled by a bank instead of a shady company, a bank isn't going to be closed down by the government (at least not that easily) but a shady company will eventually be shut down.

Regardless of the definition, you are right it is the same as "digital fiat" and it isn't even in the same category as bitcoin to have any effects on its future let alone making it "worthless"!

Jawhead999

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CBDC doesn't have any relation with Bitcoin, if CBDC has been exist it wouldn't make Bitcoin worthless or valuable. Well it's only your assumption if CBDC can be used to buy or sell Bitcoin, there's no exchanges or article mentioned it. Probably only local exchanges will list CBDC, while we know local exchanges often charge large fees and doesn't really reputable.

There's no any reason why someone need to buy CBDC except they want cashless (even electronic payment already solve this).

tippytoes

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Quote from: sunsilk on January 20, 2022, 03:43:45 AM

Quote from: henryvuong on January 20, 2022, 01:07:14 AM

it is still very much a fiat currency.

It really is. There's no different with the current setup in China using wechat and alipay for their digital payments. Adding CBDC is just like putting up another payment option for fiat. There's really nothing that much of a difference between those payment methods that I've said.

They're tying it up with cryptocurrencies but as you've said with their description, they're not using blockchain and more of, they're not really a cryptocurrency. There's no need for any argument with that since it's going to be backed up by the government as it's centralized.

We can really equate CBDC as digital fiat. So if you are concerned with privacy matters, you won't patronize the use of CBDCs. In this aspect alone, CBDCs won't make bitcoin worthless. Instead, once people understand the difference between CBDC and bitcoin, they may even switched to using bitcoin especially those who don't want to be tracked by their governments. So even with the initiatives from different governments today, creating their own CBDCs, it won't make bitcoin worthless or obsolete.

sunsilk

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Quote from: henryvuong on January 20, 2022, 01:07:14 AM

it is still very much a fiat currency.

It really is. There's no different with the current setup in China using wechat and alipay for their digital payments. Adding CBDC is just like putting up another payment option for fiat. There's really nothing that much of a difference between those payment methods that I've said.

They're tying it up with cryptocurrencies but as you've said with their description, they're not using blockchain and more of, they're not really a cryptocurrency. There's no need for any argument with that since it's going to be backed up by the government as it's centralized.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: henryvuong on January 20, 2022, 01:07:14 AM

China is rolling out digital yuan, its own version of CBDC (curiously, it's not using blockchain).

Nothing curious there. A CBDC is not a crypto currency. It's a digital representation of the actual fiat, like the money one has in the bank.
And since the government wants full rights over that money, including the rights to empty your account if they want to, they clearly don't want traces of that recorded in a blockchain.
Also this way they don't have to pay miners or worry about 51% attacks.

Quote from: henryvuong on January 20, 2022, 01:07:14 AM

You've captured pretty good most of the problems with CBDCs, but you seem to have failed to comprehend some of the implications.
All in all, I tend to agree, although for different reasons: CBDCs may give Bitcoin more legitimacy, hence making it more valuable.

Quote from: henryvuong on January 20, 2022, 01:07:14 AM

CBDC, it's easier to convert bitcoin to CBDC and vice versa, so people who hold bitcoin may not even need to use an exchange to convert their BTC to fiat, and people who want to buy bitcoin can easily do peer-to-peer transaction without using a bank account.

I long for the day when the Federal Reserve issues the digital dollar. It will make conversion between bitcoin and USD even easier, and we may not need to use an exchange service.

Here I think that you are wrong. We already have stablecoins, which, although some are rather shady, we still can be pretty much sure won't give all ever transaction details to government on a silver plate. At least not all and not so easy.
Also you fail to understand how much power would CBDCs give to the govt institutions over your money.

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All in all, CBDCs may be handy, although stablecoins have already fixed that many years ago. And CBDCs have the potential to be a very powerful tool for governments, maybe too powerful, hence we should be rather wary about them.

I really don't understand why people enjoy giving all the details of their life for free to anybody, especially the governments, without a second thought. Learn to value your privacy!! Please!!

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