Topic: Will it be profitable for the business? - page 2. (Read 1835 times)

Probably for the next 20 years to 100 years while we are transitioning between fiat systems and bitcoin system, and while we are likely having parallel systems in place, it seems quite practical that we are going to at least refer to values in terms of fiat values.  Yet, even if we are referring to fiat values, we do not necessarily have to interact with fiat systems in the event that we have more and more people who are willing to transact with us in bitcoin.... so surely it likely is going to take a long time (such as somewhere between 20 years to 100 years) to transition to a way in which a large number of the population is ready, willing and able to transact directly with bitcoin.. especially if currently, we still have less than 1% of the whole world's population that has value in bitcoin, and even those who have value in bitcoin, likely they are low coiners and do not have enough of their personal wealth in bitcoin. .since in the future (maybe 20 to 100 years?), we will have more people holding more value in bitcoin.. .and value will continue to gravitate more and more and more into bitcoin, even though while we are in the process of witnessing such value gravitating into bitcoin, it seems as if it takes a long time to see much if any progress.. especially when we see quite a few rich folks getting reckt as fuck in 2022.. through a variety of scams such as FTX, Terra/Luna, 3AC, Celsius, BlockFi, Genesis/Gemini/GBTC, Voyager, etc.

Accepting bitcoin is not bad at all because its features fast transfer you in control of your asset so much cooler than that of fiat. The payment method has actually focused too much on fiat and its transaction, and that is what we are facing right now in my region since the implementation of the fiat policies with minimal fiat withdrawal and failed transfers everyone is currently suffering because of all these policies in my region they actually need diversification. Thank God, Bitcoin is already being accepted and the world is changing. so it's actually a profitable business.

Your numbers are quite unusual, and also your way of specifying your numbers is kind of vague and even potentially misleading/confusing.

I would suggest that the vast majority of folks are not in a situation in which they can save/invest 50% of their income, so if you have that much ability to save/invest you are in a very strong financial position.  Now if you are in some kind of a sheltered situation in which many of your lodging and food expenses are covered, then maybe that could be a temporary situation - or surely it is possible to find some kinds of living arrangements that are not toiling in terms of the amounts if the cost of the location is being shared.  For many years, I used to sublet out portions of my living space, which caused my own living expenses to be way lower than other similarly-situated people of my then income level.

There are a lot of ways to classify out the ways that you use your cashflow, and I would surmise that the category of having a savings is merely a way of having a float in which that money could be used towards investing or used towards expenses depending on how much of a float that you want to maintain, and many people do have trouble even allocating more than 10% of their income towards investing.. even though it is healthy to have 10% to 20% (or more if possible) that can be invested on a regular basis.. perhaps keeping track monthly cashflow/expenses and then at least projecting out 3-6 months or maybe even projecting out up to 24 months is good.. with most of the focus being on making sure that the 3-6 months is pretty well understood and so the further out periods can be more vague and ballpark ideas, but still there should be abilities to identify if there might be some cashflow crunches that might happen 1 year or 2 years out based on information already largely known.


I question why you are so inclined to include periods of uncertainty, as if the deal needs to be renegotiated at various points in time, when it does not.  The parties likely have already agreed from the point in which the sale was made about the various terms to such a level that they don't need to agree to hardly shit.. the job is finished and delivered and no more negotiation is needed or even preferred - absent one of the parties not delivering on one end or the other... but that has nothing to do with using bitcoin as a transaction mechanism, but instead disputes that can arise in any business arrangement regarding quality of product/services... no additional dispute needs to be present merely because of volatility if they terms of payment had already been agree to..

Maybe we can discuss this in terms of some kind of a hypothetical.  Let's say that one of the parties makes customized beds, so the two parties agreed that there would be a purchase of 10 beds, that need to be delivered one month after the agreement, and the buyer agreed to buy the beds for $1k each, and he will sell them for $2k each.  The seller/builder of the beds requires 50% down that is paid upon the date of the sale (signing of a sales contract), and then the remainder of payment upon delivery (or there could be other payment terms, but let's make this simple).  The buyer pays $5k down payment using bitcoin at the time of the sale, and no problem right? They agree to how the payment is going to be made, and who is going to cover the fees. 

And then one month later, the 10 beds are delivered, and the buyer needs to pay for the beds right, and they already agreed that he was going to be paid in bitcoin.  They could have agreed to a bitcoin value, but more likely they would have agreed to a dollar value that is then converted to bitcoin so that the buyer will know how much to pay at the time of the delivery which is exactly equal to $5k plus whatever other ways that they had already agreed to any fees or who would pay the fees or whatever.  Where's the complications?  Sure the BTC price might have changed, but so what, the contract is denominated in dollars and the method of payment is agreed to be bitcoin... They figure out the amount to send right then, and they might have already specified that they use the fees that are depicted in the app or wallet that they use or maybe they agree to use the Bitstamp exchange rate for the time of payment. 

Now if the BTC price is moving around a lot at exactly the time of payment, they could agree to wait and to pay 24 hours later, or they could agree to take an average of the price over the past 12 hours or 24 hours.. and those parameters could be worked out in advance, or maybe if the beds are already delivered then the seller does not want to be fucking around with payments because he already did his part and he delivered the beds.


Each person assesses on their own, so if the buyer does not want to use bitcoin to pay, and if the seller ONLY takes bitcoin, then they are not going to reach an agreement.  The same is true if the seller chooses not to take bitcoin, but if all of his competitors are taking bitcoin, but he is not, then if the buyer says that they want to buy in bitcoin, then the seller would need to convince the buyer to change his/her mind or perhaps to show something about his product/service that causes the buyer to want to change his/her preferred method of payment... Sometimes people have options to change their method of payment and sometimes they don't.  Sometimes people have options to change their method of payment, but they choose not to change their method of payment for a variety of reasons, including just maybe that they might find it difficult to set up and to get used to - including that even within the decision to start to accept bitcoin as a means of payment, the ways that it is set up or the processes might get easier.. but at the same time, there can be some reluctance to learn how to set it up or to make changes each time, and even if the system is set up, there can be some questions about whether it is secured and backed up, so even if it is working, there can be worries about holding a lot of value on a hot wallet or even needing to monitor that the price is going up or down, so it can take time to put systems in place in order to feel that there are not needs to monitor the price changes on an hourly basis.. and maybe just once a week or so... or once a quarter.

More precisely, this can use Bitcoin Gateway payments by utilizing several third-party E-commerce such as coinbase, Bitpay, etc.

With a Bitcoin gateway, companies can accept payments directly in Bitcoin without having to convert to fiat currency first.
This makes the payment process quicker and easier, and also reduces the costs associated with currency exchange processes.

To make payments with lower fees and faster it is highly recommended to use the Bitcoin Lightning Network service. This will make transactions faster and cheaper and can be done with a small nominal.

To convert to Fiat, there are many third-party E-Commerce gateways as I mentioned above that can convert bitcoin to fiat at a low cost without bothering to sell manually, everything will be done automatically.

Most likely, these points can be taken into account by the parties, for example, payment can be made in bitcoin but at the rate on the day of payment, so that the parties receive exactly the amount that was prescribed in the contract. When the company works with payment in bitcoin, then over time all these points can be worked out, experience will appear and it will be possible to take into account a number of points that may affect one of the parties.

Payment in bitcoins will only be used if it is beneficial to both parties, if everyone can appreciate the benefits of it. This can be beneficial due to low fees, but may incur significant costs to convert it to fiat. All these points must be taken into account in order to evaluate the benefit.

There is a difference between bitcoin HODlers who have large capital and those with small capital, for those with large capital they can take entries even though the price is relatively high, while for those who have small capital they are more likely to take opportunities when a correction occurs to buy, this difference is clear in the utilization of each -respectively, due to achieving stable profits that can be converted repeatedly into new purchases and that is why for those with large capital it is quite easy to set the standard Invest in bitcoin, even if you have to take an entry at a slightly higher price.

Everyone has to determine cash inflows and outflows, this stability must really be feasible which is projected to support daily needs using fiat, as long as the process goes on for months and after everything is stable, then people can place investment standards in bitcoin, for me there are simple steps to get us involved consistently in bitcoin investing by creating a balanced cash flow pattern. For example, for every 100% accumulative income, 50% is used for daily needs, 20% for savings and 30% for investment, thus the calculations carried out will revive three important sectors and not ignore basic responsibilities as fulfillment. The percentage of the amount of money collected is in accordance with the income of each individual and it is not cumulatively the same.

The approach you explained was only done by cryptocurrency users who only see Bitcoin as a means of expanding and making more money with their business because they are only into it for the greedy not for the beauty of the technology.
Despite the harm, their move may cause the market will still need them and we can't all have the same understanding of the Bitcoin market. However, i like the OP business concept.

This things are not so difficult to implement, just like the way sellers do make used of invoice in shopping and paying of items, the same can be done with crypto, the QR codes are easier to make payments, the seller should mount it on the items they are putting for sales and the equivalent amount will be displayed on the buyer screen, not necessary that conversion should be required.

If I'm the seller and I sell small items that are not too costly, I will make them have my payment done in sats, it encourages buyers to think of Bitcoin in lower denominations than in larger caps, imagine telling customer to pay 2 bitcoin may sound too big for a small item even if it worth it in usd, it might discourage the buyer.

Don't get me wrong.  For sure, if you are fairly new to bitcoin, it can take many years to figure out various systems in which you are able to feel comfortable in managing any bitcoin transactions that you make, and surely the larger the size of the bitcoin transaction (relative to your wealth or your investment portfolio or your floating cash), the greater concerns that you will have to manage volatility. I have been there myself several times, and maybe there are ways to consider bitcoin related transactions as part of a game in which you are figuring out a kind of good balance on a personal level, but still from my perspective, the mere fact that any of us likely need to deal with  various aspects of bitcoin's volatility should not rule out getting involved in bitcoin and figuring out ways to attempt to advantage ourselves from the volatility rather than considering volatility as an obstacle that is too great to penetrate.

From my perspective, we are a very long way before reaching a time in which we should be completely keeping our value in bitcoin, and surely there are some bitcoin HODLers who actually choose to enter into relatively high levels of bitcoin holdings and even holding all of their value in bitcoin, which I believe is less than practical for the overwhelming majority of normies.. so the folks who choose to completely (or near completely) hold their value in bitcoin are very much aberrations.. perhaps close to unicorn status?

For the vast majority of folks, income, cashflow and expenses are likely mostly denominated in fiat.. so if we want to try to create a decent amount of stability in our own lives in terms of finances and psychology, we need to keep a certain amount of value within the unit that we are expecting to be paying expenses on a regular basis, and surely 3 months would be a minimum that we should be projecting out our cashflow, but preferably we should have good ideas for our cashflow 6-24 months into the future with greater degrees of certainty on shorter periods, and it can take a decently long time to get systems in place in order to be able to project out cashflows, and surely the less complicated our cashflows, the less need to project out or even to keep a cushion (including various emergency funds).

Each of us has a right to NOT project out our cashflow and to just wing our finances by living paycheck to paycheck, but I would suspect that a lot of people are going to be better off when they make sure that they have decent understandings regarding how they are earning and spending their cashflows... and surely some folks need help when they are managing their cashflows too... but even people who are not very sophisticated are likely going to be in better positions if they know their cashflows including making sure while they are investing and building stages, that they are spending less than they are earning, but surely some people know that they are spending more than they are earning, and in those cases, they might be spending their value on investments or they may be spending their value on consumption or they may have a variety of spending habits which they may or may not have assessed whether they are spending in ways that are likely to increase their wealth or that they are sufficiently and adequately managing risks.

JJG believe it or not currently we are still stuck in the centralized thinking approach as a maximum of us take the BTC as the payment system and then again convert them back to local cash for easy finance management and accounts but it makes it worse and complex I think we should go with BTC without the fiat approach. As selecting the value of the service or product in Stoshi not in the fiat money that will highly reduce the volatility problems as now you are not concerned with BTC price in Dollar your concern is the selling product for bitcoin regardless of the market value.

I doubt that long lead times necessarily create insurmountable obstacles in regards to whether transactions can (should or would be preferable to) be made in bitcoin, even if the transaction amounts might be denominated in dollars and then ultimately the value sent in bitcoin.  

Of course, the value of the transaction should be agreed at the time that it is sent, and perhaps even the method of sending needs to be agreed to and an agreement regarding who pays the fees, yet none of these considerations should necessarily be considered as insurmountable obstacles, and there are likely ways in which both parties would be able to benefit by transacting in bitcoin.  

Of course, it is up to each party to calculate whether they prefer to transact in bitcoin or if they want to use dollars or some other transaction medium, and there should be a presumption that the parties are ONLY going to transact in bitcoin if each of them independently perceive that it is either in their benefit to transact in bitcoin or that the costs of transacting in bitcoin do not outweigh the benefits (or potential benefits if all of the benefits might not be known at the time of the transaction).  


I don't understand why volatility by itself would be any kind of major deal breaker because there are a variety of ways to deal with volatility, including figuring out how long to hold onto bitcoin before or after transacting with it, and so depending on the method in which bitcoin is held and the various transaction fees that might be involved, then volatility could become a concern in terms of creating more costs in the event that there are additional needs to convert back and forth depending upon how value is kept.

Yes, of course there will be an automatic converter to see prices to maintain volatility in bitcoin or crypto itself, price fixing must be done for this.

Regarding profitability, I don't think it's based on bitcoin and or the currency used for transactions, it depends on the goods being sold because basically this is buying and selling where consumers will look for the goods they need, even though the OP uses Bitcoin as an option payment is not certain people will buy the goods if the goods being sold are goods that are not needed by the market and that is what will determine whether you can profit or not because if it is associated with fluctuations in bitcoin or other crypto we can peg the price with fiat currency to problem solving.

Volatility will be very beneficial in investment, we invest in bitcoin because of this special feature of bitcoin. But when it comes to using bitcoin as a means of payment, that volatility is really a demerit because if you can't convert to fiat immediately, then chances are your profits will drop if bitcoin price drops. That will affect revenue as well as make it difficult to manage finance to maintain business operations, as capital is used for business, it cannot be held for a long time but needs to be rotated accordingly.

I look at it this way - any additional payment method gives me extra customers. I'm not sure what kind of business you're running: selling goods or services or something else and what is your profit margin as for some businesses currency fluctuations may be critical. There are some services which would process your crypto payments and convert them to fiat immediately after the transaction is made.

I came across a case when companies signed a cooperation agreement, the currency of the agreement was the US dollar, and under this agreement the company was supposed to produce goods, but the difficulty was that the calculation had to be made upon completion of the order, and this took several months, since there was a large order for several hundred thousand items. And the production was in another country and the materials for production had to be bought for local currency (not US dollars). The result is that after completing the order, the customer paid for the order, but over these few months the national currency has strengthened significantly and the manufacturer has lost a significant part of the profit because of this.

Even so, there are very big risks when it comes to long lead times. In the case of paying in bitcoins, this can be even more significant, since its volatility is much higher. And in the case of this venture, they simply cannot afford such risks, since they cannot wait for the price of bitcoin to rise, they will need to exchange everything for fiat at once, since they need to pay taxes, pay wages to workers and pay utility bills, as well as to buy materials for the production of the following orders.

Perhaps if the company has large financial reserves and is looking for additional sources of investment, bitcoin can be accepted as a means of payment for this company, but in an economic crisis, there are probably not many companies that can afford it.

The business venture with Bitcoin is very good.  If you want to do business with Bitcoin then there are two suggestions for you.

First, you can hold Bitcoin long-term as the market for Bitcoin is volatile.  Because if you hold now you will surely succeed because the price of Bitcoin is increasing bit by bit.  It can be a part of your business dividend.
Second, it is a very good strategy for you to trade bitcoins in small amounts.  At present, the price of Bitcoin is going up and down, if you can trade at this time, you will definitely get benefits.  You can also exchange bitcoins through P2P and here too you will have benefits.

it will be very profitable, moreover, you will have a lot of support from the community for your merchandise, volatility issues must be considered because it may be a measure of loss or profit in your business, I thought so for a while. But maybe what can be a solution for this is that you have a benchmark price with a relatively stable value even though the payment uses bitcoin, just like you adjust it with the fiat currency in your country or the dollar to set the value of goods and even so the payment must be in bitcoin. To protect your money, you may, when someone buys, exchange it directly for stablecoins or direct fiat currency to continue the production of your merchandise.

Everything depends on you to make a choice on how the volatility will affect or play a good role in your business. If your goods are in fixed price and you receive payment with bitcoin and the price of bitcoin drops, and you feel if this happens it will affect your business. I will advise you no to do what you feel it will affect your business if their is shortage. But if your business is big and you have enough money at hand and volatility won't be a problem to you and even if the price falls you can have patience to wait till it comes up then it will be good to accept Bitcoin as payment.

I think those who accept Bitcoin as payment in their business are not to keep the BTC as an investment asset but directly exchange it for fiat and the decision to include BTC in one of their business payment systems is a form of opportunity to also get customers from people who like payments with BTC, so if you want to receive BTC in one of your business types, you will immediately exchange it for fiat as a form of protection from BTC volatility which can reduce your profits.

There will be for sure an automatic converter if OP pushes for this type of payment method for his customers. As he's aware of how volatile bitcoin is then, the price of any goods or products that he'll sell on his business will vary based on the market's status and pricing as it changes most often.

Talking about the profitability of the business by just accepting bitcoin won't really give that result. It should be the business in itself that's being profitable whether he accepts or not bitcoin on it.