Will the need to increase BTC's max supply arise in the future? - page 5.

20kevin20

legendary

Activity: 1134

Merit: 1599

Quote from: AmoreJaz on August 07, 2020, 04:50:59 PM

yeah, it just translates to the fact that smaller fraction of satoshis will be valuable in the future. no need to have additional supply. who knows in the future 1 satoshi will be worth $1? so whatever the supply right now is enough. the value of every fraction will just change thru time. if the fees received by the miners will just be few satoshis, that means at that time every satoshi counts and very valuable

This will happen way before a satoshi could touch $1. Even if it was worth a penny (and it's getting closer and closer to that point), it'd still be too much imo. Fungibility should be a thing even if BTC touches an insane price point, and one of the most interesting aspects about BTC is that you can precisely pay a very, very small fraction of a penny if you need to.

If $1 will be equal to a satoshi, at that point it'd just crash BTC's price as you'd have to pay more bucks for the fees than you'd send/receive - and nobody's interested in doing that. If price keeps increasing the same way it did after the past few halvings, by 2024-2028 this should already become an issue.

Bitcoin_bullish

member

Activity: 211

Merit: 55

Quote from: Abiky on August 07, 2020, 02:42:22 PM

Now, what if developers decide to increase that hard cap in supply?

I've read similar articles and I am certain that this subject will be up to a lengthy discussion at some point, but for now, we do not need to worry about this. It is actually consensus that will decide as developers alone do not rule Bitcoin. Communication between all entities that constitute the Bitcoin Community will decide. But as said it is a subject that probably won't be discussed for at least another three years and the next halving of miners rewards.

livingfree

hero member

Activity: 3024

Merit: 580

Hire Bitcointalk Camp. Manager @ r7promotions.com

Quote from: virasog on August 08, 2020, 01:06:59 AM

Quote from: livingfree on August 07, 2020, 06:52:46 PM

Increasing the supply is like the helicopter money.

I don't think that there's a need for it to increase. It's bitcoin and its scarcity is one of its asset and the best thing that it had. We are far seeing that day that there will be debates of increasing the supply. The concern is more of the transaction speed and fees.

The moment you increase the bitcoin supply, the bitcoin will dump so fast that you can't imagine. Why we see so high bitcoin price is that it's supply is limited and fixed. This makes it a valuable currency. Since more people will use bitcoin, its demand will keep increasing but the supply will always remain the same.

Being scarce is why many look at bitcoin as a valuable asset.

Yes, if the time comes and its supply will be increased, many things can happen and we have no idea if those things we have said will actually be one of it.

But as of looking at it, there's really no need for its supply to be increased.

bitcampaign

sr. member

Activity: 2016

Merit: 268

it seems like it would be better if the supply was not added, the rarer the better, no need to worry about losing miners, but if the value is high enough it will keep coming new miners for bitcoin, 21 million supply I think that's very sufficient

sujon5

jr. member

Activity: 93

Merit: 1

Why do we need to increase the maximum supply? Bitcoin is very dividable, so 21M is enough.

Wexnident

hero member

Activity: 2758

Merit: 675

I don't request loans~

Not really. IF the issue of supply was because there wasn't enough, Bitcoin could be split into satoshis and that could be used to transact, heck, that's what most transact it most of the time anyway afaik, since transactions with 1BTC or more are pretty rare (unless you're trading). The issue with miners fighting over profits should be remedied if the number of miners was gradually reduced. Mining farms are the ones that are profiting right now due to the sheer amount of miners each farm has but really, once the profits seen from there are reduced, miners would gradually reduce to a point where they would still get profit off of fees.

A 51% is possible, yes, and if it happens, you can honestly believe that Bitcoin would probably lose a lot of support. But I doubt people would vote to increase the supply to avoid the attack, simply because doing so goes against what Bitcoin is after all.

elda34b

sr. member

Activity: 910

Merit: 351

Quote from: virasog on August 08, 2020, 01:06:59 AM

The moment you increase the bitcoin supply, the bitcoin will dump so fast that you can't imagine. Why we see so high bitcoin price is that it's supply is limited and fixed. This makes it a valuable currency. Since more people will use bitcoin, its demand will keep increasing but the supply will always remain the same.

There is always a possibility of a fork, and then it's a matter of time to see which chain live and die. I also believe that the 21 million is somewhat a magic number that has been marketed through various channels (regardless we want it or not) as the bitcoin important value compared to fiat.

When the time come we'll see, I don't really think we need to predict so early.

cryptomaniac_xxx

hero member

Activity: 1344

Merit: 540

Quote from: erikoy on August 07, 2020, 05:12:03 PM

In my opinion it is better to make another coin same as bitcoin and tradable too but in different value. Until such time that coins market price are at the same value and ready to merge. This way prices of bitcoin will not be change but the supply will do. I think it could be done a done and pretty sure that the new bitcoin creation will get a hype and eventually will be able to get the same.price as the bitcoin in just a small period of time. Well I guess merging could be the best way to add more btc supply.

Isn't it we already have those bitcoin fork coins? BCH and BSV and others? Yes, it is doable because it is just a piece of code that can be modify specially that it is a open source. But the community will be split again.

For me there's no need to increase the 21 million supply, it is what it was designed. And the unit can be divisible. For the miners, it is still profitable, until the last every bit of bitcoin has been mine. It will just complicate things.

virasog

legendary

Activity: 3206

Merit: 1174

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: livingfree on August 07, 2020, 06:52:46 PM

Increasing the supply is like the helicopter money.

I don't think that there's a need for it to increase. It's bitcoin and its scarcity is one of its asset and the best thing that it had. We are far seeing that day that there will be debates of increasing the supply. The concern is more of the transaction speed and fees.

The moment you increase the bitcoin supply, the bitcoin will dump so fast that you can't imagine. Why we see so high bitcoin price is that it's supply is limited and fixed. This makes it a valuable currency. Since more people will use bitcoin, its demand will keep increasing but the supply will always remain the same.

hd49728

legendary

Activity: 2044

Merit: 1018

Not your keys, not your coins!

I don't need to see higher supply for bitcoin. Higher supply, lower price.

There are people think that tBTC or Bitcoin Testnet will have value someday so they hold it for the future but I think they exaggerate the future value of tbtc. It is important but don't hope or try to build its value like bitcoin. Things for tests, they should be free.

Soon if bitcoin price is high enough, then people will switch to talk about value of satoshi. How much does 10k satoshi cost at current market price of bitcoin? I think people will talk about it next 8 or 12 years.

CryptopreneurBrainboss

legendary

Activity: 2478

Merit: 4341

eXch.cx - Automatic crypto Swap Exchange.

They'll just have to find a way to make it work, miners don't deal on bitcoin alone as countless number of them mine various other cryptocurrency. Therefore, in a scenario when all bitcoin minable are exhausted I think the miners would just have to feed off the transaction fees with addition to mining other cryptocurrency available and keep the ecosystem running.

Increasing the supply of bitcoin isn't a way out of the problem since we doing that won't make us any different from the centralized government operating in our different countries that constantly increase the supply of fiat by printing trillions from nowhere. There has to be another solution which will be found before that due date, lets just keep faith with bitcoin.

odolvlobo

legendary

Activity: 4522

Merit: 3426

Quote from: Abiky on August 07, 2020, 02:42:22 PM

... If at that point in time, Bitcoin's prices stay just the way they are right now (less than $1m), it may become unprofitable for miners to continue supporting the Blockchain. With no block reward, they'll be living off fees. If prices are too low, earned fees won't be able to sustain miner's operations.

Bitcoin mining is designed such that it will always be profitable to mine for some people.

Quote from: Abiky on August 07, 2020, 02:42:22 PM

By then, developers would need to raise the limit of 21 million coins to a higher value, re-introducing a block reward in order to attract miners into the Blockchain. Otherwise, the security of the Bitcoin blockchain will be at risk.

You concern is well-founded. Bitcoin is designed such that the block reward determines the level of protection from a 51% attack, and if the block reward is too low, then Bitcoin may be vulnerable to a 51% attack. The question then is how much of a block reward is necessary to prevent a 51% attack, and will fees be enough? The answer to that question is unknown. We have seen 51% attacks against other coins, so we know how much is not enough. We just don't know how much is enough.

OTOH, a very low block reward indicates that nobody uses Bitcoin, so in that case it really doesn't matter if Bitcoin is attacked because Bitcoin has already failed.

Quote from: Abiky on August 07, 2020, 02:42:22 PM

Do you think that the need to increase BTC's max supply will arise in the future? Or will Bitcoin be able to "live" just fine with a max supply of 21 million coins? Your input will be greatly appreciated.

No. There is no benefit to increasing the limit.

pooya87

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 10611

Quote from: Abiky on August 07, 2020, 02:42:22 PM

For long, Bitcoin has been touted as the "store of value" of the crypto/Blockchain space with its limited supply of 21 million coins.

bitcoin is a currency that can work also as a store of value. if it were only a store of value then 1 million coin would have been more than enough!

Quote

Now, what if developers decide to increase that hard cap in supply?

bitcoin is decentralized so the community must decide not the devs.

Quote

By then, developers would need to raise the limit of 21 million coins to a higher value,

if price couldn't rise and it were causing problem for miners to make profit, raising the supply would crash the price and that new reward would be worth a lot less than what they were given before the stupid decision!

Quote

Do you think that the need to increase BTC's max supply will arise in the future?

not because of miners reward, that's for sure.

Little Mouse

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 2327

Marketing Campaign Manager |Telegram ID- @LT_Mouse

I do not think it will be necessary or even if it does, the coin will no more be existing. BTC is popular because of its limited supply of 21million. If it changes, or even if it changes to another limited number, there will be a deflation and I doubt many investor or long term holder would love that.
Satoshi had predicted that either BTC will be so expensive or it will just die. So, if miners can not be happy with the fee (if price low), bitcoin will no more be existed.

gentlemand

legendary

Activity: 2604

Merit: 3056

Welt Am Draht

If it's increased once it'll be increased again which means it's never going to happen as down that road outrageous dilution and endless splintering lies.

The longer Bitcoin stays alive the less likely the prospect of a fundamental change in its nature is. There'll be simply too many clashing points of view to ever reach enough consensus for a change that profound. It could well lead to a bunch of forks once more but they'll be ultimately irrelevant like all the others.

I'm yet to be convinced lightning networks will ever amount to anything, but they have the ability to break a satoshi down into 1000 smaller units. If that's still a problem we'll all be so dead and/or so incomprehensibly rich we'll be long past caring.

pixie85

hero member

Activity: 2184

Merit: 531

Quote from: Kemarit on August 07, 2020, 04:20:04 PM

I think Bitcoin can live with the 21 million supply, I think we have enough:

We would maybe have enough if there were really 21 million bitcoins in circulation.

Do you guys really not see that up to 20% of all mined Bitcoins could be lost at this point? This is going to be at elast 30% in the next 10 years and so on and so forth.

I don't know what can be done about those lost coins but we will have to think of something eventually or switch to Bitcoin 2.0.

hatshepsut93

legendary

Activity: 3038

Merit: 2162

This is a possible scenario, but keep in mind that just because the devs can release a new version of the client, it doesn't mean that the users will automatically adopt it. This is not Ethereum where developers can change protocol as they please.

I think the chance of this happening is higher than some might think, but overall isn't very high right now. If the community fill face this dilemma between inflation or low hashrate, I think most would choose inflation. Low network security is way worse for value than some small inflation rate like 0.5% per year. But for now we don't know what exactly the impact of no block reward will be, so it's all pure speculation right now.

livingfree

hero member

Activity: 3024

Merit: 580

Hire Bitcointalk Camp. Manager @ r7promotions.com

Increasing the supply is like the helicopter money.

I don't think that there's a need for it to increase. It's bitcoin and its scarcity is one of its asset and the best thing that it had. We are far seeing that day that there will be debates of increasing the supply. The concern is more of the transaction speed and fees.

erikoy

full member

Activity: 686

Merit: 125

In my opinion it is better to make another coin same as bitcoin and tradable too but in different value. Until such time that coins market price are at the same value and ready to merge. This way prices of bitcoin will not be change but the supply will do. I think it could be done a done and pretty sure that the new bitcoin creation will get a hype and eventually will be able to get the same.price as the bitcoin in just a small period of time. Well I guess merging could be the best way to add more btc supply.

AmoreJaz

legendary

Activity: 3122

Merit: 1102

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: 20kevin20 on August 07, 2020, 04:42:57 PM

I'd rather use smaller fractions of satoshis instead. I think the limited supply of BTC now became a very powerful psychological thing and having the supply suddenly turn into billions of BTC might do more bad than good, considering supply is one of the reasons some people are here.

Smaller fractions of satoshis is about the same thing as having more supply, without having to think "oh, now we have more BTC!". If Bitcoin ever gets to $100k or more, I personally believe this will become a problem not just for miners, but for everyone else.

yeah, it just translates to the fact that smaller fraction of satoshis will be valuable in the future. no need to have additional supply. who knows in the future 1 satoshi will be worth $1? so whatever the supply right now is enough. the value of every fraction will just change thru time. if the fees received by the miners will just be few satoshis, that means at that time every satoshi counts and very valuable

Topic: Will the need to increase BTC's max supply arise in the future? - page 5. (Read 790 times)