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Topic: Will the real Satoshi please stand up? (Read 1055 times)

sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 257
May 04, 2016, 07:31:53 PM
#21

That is a jumbled analysis which doesn't explain well the situation.

I already explained it more clearly:

Remember that Craig Wright had obtained funding for and was running a the largest Supercomputer in Australia. So what Craig has ostensibly done is he is used supercomputer resources to find the inverse of a hash function and then used one of Satoshi old transactions to pretend he has the private key:

The implication is that either Craig Wright has stumbled upon an infinitesimally rare occurrence of an SHA256 collision, or that he had used the signature from block 258 to reverse engineer a hash (the first shown in his blog demonstration) and hoped that nobody would notice. ycombinator user JoukeH noticed.

And with his access to a supercomputer, it is plausible he was able to reverse the hash in order to find a text that matched the signature that was already on the blockchain. Without that explanation, then he must have the private key! You seem to not understand the technology.  Roll Eyes

Let me unpack that more for n00bs. The point is that every Bitcoin signature signs the hash (of a hash) of the transaction. And so if someone can create two transactions that have the same hash, then one can use the same signature for both, i.e. no need to have the private key to generate a new signature.

What Craig did was reuse an existing signature from the block chain which is attributed to Satoshi, and supplied it as the signature for a new transactions. Specifically the new transaction is some text written by Sartre but the key point is that normally it should impossible to find a new set of data which can generate the same hash, because of the preimage resistance security property of the SHA256 cryptographic hash function.

Re-read my post, you didn't seem to understand it. Craig has not said he is Satoshi. Find a quote where he said that. You won't. He has always said it was his colleague.

Listen to the first few minutes of the BBC interview

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36191165

"You're going to show me that Satoshi is you?"

Craig - "yes"

Remember Craig is a lawyer. Remember how Bill Clinton explained in court what the meaning of 'is' is.

Craig has consistently claimed he was backing "the persona behind Satoshi" and was part of a group involved with Satoshi, so the above statement is consistent with that, without him actually being the man who developed the code of Bitcoin with his own fingers. The interviewer did not ask Craig "are you going to prove you are the man who wrote the code of Bitcoin?" which obviously can't be proved nor disproved by any signature since Satoshi did not sign the code of Bitcoin.



Is Satoshi after all of Blockstream?

Quote
I have had no communication with Mr Wright at all, let alone signed anything. I understand that there is some information sheet Wright is giving reporters that specifically attacks me, however!

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4hs2ca/can_all_core_developers_confirm_they_havent/



Hey dufus - why don't you look at the BBC article itself: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36168863

It says: "Australian entrepreneur Craig Wright has publicly identified himself as Bitcoin creator Satoshi Nakamoto."

Where did they get the information from - they got it from Craig Wright - still going to say he hasn't identified himself as being Satoshi?

You are quoting what a reporter has said, not what Craig has said. I said find a quote where Craig has claimed his is the man who wrote the code for Bitcoin. You will never find that.

Butthurt idiot. Bye.

I see you locked your thread again. You are an emotional basketcase.

I am replying to every topic where my post is relevant. I am not the one who created so many duplicate topics.

It isn't relevant and it is just spamming (you could start your own topic of course).

And if he was saying that he just knew Satoshi and is not Satoshi then why does Gavin come out this "meeting" saying that he is Satoshi (surely he would  have told Gavin it was his friend and not him).

You are just butthurt.

It is very relevant.

Craig has played Gavin. He knows Gavin needs support for his preferences for the block scaling debate.

Butthurt by what exactly?

(perhaps due to seeing your same post spammed in every topic?)

Don't pretend you've forgotten when you closed the technical thread where we were debating and told me in PM that you never wanted to talk to me again.

I don't have time for your melodrama. Bye.



It's increasingly obvious that despite not being able to present actual cryptographic proof Wright is putting a lot of effort into obfuscation and trying to sway the public opinion, whether it's for his business interests or something else.

You do not seem to understand the math. Either Craig broke SHA256 or he has Satoshi's private key.

Also by getting core Bitcoin devs and their tribe to claim that the proof Craig provided is not a proof, he has revealed them as being disingenuous. Very clever political game theory he has concocted.

Craig has astutely accomplished his goal, as only 42% of Bitcoiners conclude he can't be Satoshi. And when and if Craig signs coins from an early block of Bitcoin, the level of confusion will increase. Craig is playing a political game theory.

I think bringing in a dead person into this is just a scapegoat by Craig Wright to confuse spectators. If this is true, why would he pretend being Satoshi by signing a fake message? Until Craig comes up with this extraordinary proof he says, I refuse to believe anything that came from him.

Refusing to believe is not the same as proving he is not. Craig is winning the political game theory. He is a clever lawyer mofo.


One theory that is being floated on Reddit runs like this:

Kleiman is Satoshi, and had the keys to the ~1 million bitcoins. He dies, and his USB stick/computer/whatever went to a relative, who doesn't realize what he is holding. Wright knew Kleiman and knew he was Satoshi. So he invents this crazy story about being Satoshi, but that he can't spend the coins because they are all in a trust that was held by Kleiman.

So now Wright comes public claiming to be Satoshi - and sets himself up to launch a lawsuit against Kleiman's relative to get "his" bitcoins back. If Wright pulls this off, he gains the fabled treasure of 1 million bitcoins off Kleiman's estate.

Thoughts pro and con?



I just came up with another theory though...we might be missing the forest for the trees. Much of what CW has said has proven sketchy, or even downright lies (claiming multiple fake phd's for instance). We do know one thing that's incontrovertible: CW was very interested in high performance computing / supercomputing. Think about that for a minute.

Now what if Kleiman, being the typical computer geek, enjoyed the intellectual challenge of creating the code but had little interest in testing...and asked his friend CW to help test Bitcoin by mining. It's very possible that CW could own Block 1, and even if not, it's still possible that a significant part of Satoshi's stash...actually doesn't belong to Satoshi. What if most/all the coins we thought were Satoshi's were actually CW's?

It's also possible that Kleiman wrote the first version of the Bitcoin code, and that CW took over testing, bug fixing, and future development. Kleiman could have written the code, while CW could have been the "Satoshi" that communicated extensively with Gavin and others...

I think that CSW stumbled upon Bitcoin circa 2013 (late 2012 at the earliest) and started concocting a narrative to fit his long con. Stumbling upon the death of David Kleiman, a person who CSW co-wrote with, Craig saw that the pieces of Dave's life fit nicely in what's known about Satoshi. It was just a matter of creating docs to make it look like he and Dave were partners of sorts which I've demonstrated he's done.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 257
No - what Craig did was grab an existing signature used by Satoshi and pretend he had created it to sign a document by Sartre (which is fraud and even Gavin is not sure what on earth to make of that).

And he *is* claiming to be Satoshi (which is why he asked Gavin to come and *verify* his claim).

Also - why are you posting the exact same thing in multiple topics?

Re-read my post, you didn't seem to understand it. Craig has not said he is Satoshi. Find a quote where he said that. You won't. He has always said it was his colleague.

And with his access to a supercomputer, it is plausible he was able to reverse the hash in order to find a text that matched the signature that was already on the blockchain. Without that explanation, then he must have the private key! You seem to not understand the technology.  Roll Eyes

I am replying to every topic where my post is relevant. I am not the one who created so many duplicate topics.

I am replying to every topic where my post is relevant. I am not the one who created so many duplicate topics.

It isn't relevant and it is just spamming (you could start your own topic of course).

And if he was saying that he just knew Satoshi and is not Satoshi then why does Gavin come out this "meeting" saying that he is Satoshi (surely he would  have told Gavin it was his friend and not him).

You are just butthurt.

It is very relevant.

Craig has played Gavin. He knows Gavin needs support for his preferences for the block scaling debate.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 257
Quote
Craig "Satoshi" Wright said he was going to move them

hahah this guy is so funny lol. He doesn't need to move any coin to prove it, just sign the fcking message if he has the prive keys

Something is weird. He provided a message and a signature, but there's nothing in the message to indicate that he signed it himself, or when it was signed. It could have been signed months or years ago and there's no way to prove otherwise.

To understand what is really going on, you need to read carefully what Craig Wright has always said and continues to reiterate:

In his initial blog post, Wright noted that “Satoshi is dead... but this is only the beginning.” He also said that he would follow up with a more detailed mathematical explanation for the revelation. Now, the world will likely have to wait for “the coming days”—however long that may be—for more clues.

If I sign Craig Wright, it is not the same as if I sign Craig Wright, Satoshi.

I think this is true, but in my heart I wish it wasn’t.

Since those early days, after distancing myself from the public persona that was Satoshi,

Satoshi is dead.

But this is only the beginning.

You need to remember that Craig Wright has never claimed he is Satoshi Nakamoto. Instead, he has claimed that his former colleague (who died) was Satoshi. He claims he was backing his colleague's the development of Bitcoin.

This Australian Says He and His Dead Friend Invented Bitcoin



David Kleiman, Craig Wright's friend more likely Satoshi Nakamoto

OK so this might get a little meandering but I keep finding tidbits of David Kleiman's life that makes him a far more likely candidate for Satoshi than Wright. So here are some in no specific order.

Remember that Craig Wright had obtained funding for and was running a the largest Supercomputer in Australia. So what Craig has ostensibly done is he is used supercomputer resources to find the inverse of a hash function and then used one of Satoshi old transactions to pretend he has the private key:

The implication is that either Craig Wright has stumbled upon an infinitesimally rare occurrence of an SHA256 collision, or that he had used the signature from block 258 to reverse engineer a hash (the first shown in his blog demonstration) and hoped that nobody would notice. ycombinator user JoukeH noticed.

Realize that he has probably promised to endorse Andresen's block chain scaling preferences and thus probably why Gavin wants him to be Satoshi:

Andresen’s only attempt at an explanation for Wright’s bizarre behavior, he says, is an ambivalence about definitively revealing himself after so many years in hiding. “I think the most likely explanation is that … he really doesn’t want to take on the mantle of being the inventor of Bitcoin,” says Andresen, who notes that his own credibility is at stake, too. “Maybe he wants things to be really weird and unclear, which would be bad for me.”

That uncertainty, Andresen says, seemed to be evident in Wright’s manner at the time of their demonstration. Andresen describes Wright as seeming “sad” and “overwhelmed” by the decision to come forward. “His voice was breaking.

Remember that after his death, David Kleiman's family recovered his USB flash drive and gave it to Craig Wright. Thus likely Craig Wright may have an unpublished transaction but not the actual private key. So he may be about to fool the world into thinking he is Satoshi, or making some proof that he was the man behind the man who was the real Satoshi.
full member
Activity: 265
Merit: 100
Seems like Craig Wright liked the joke



EDIT - "Ok, nevermind...we gonna have a problem here " Grin
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1064

Whatever they are hiding still the price of bitcoin is uncertain this coming halving. I would like to think this is just to test its effect in an attempt to see which way the market goes if Satoshi is known to everyone. The last time he was in the news it somehow move the price up, didn't it?
I'm fairly new to BTC so my question is, how many times have someone come out claiming to be Satoshi? What were the effects (if there were) of those news to the price action of BTC? Was there a similar news that came out prior to the last halving?

I think Craig is the only person who has come out claiming to be Satoshi. All the other outings were by overzealous media houses.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500

Whatever they are hiding still the price of bitcoin is uncertain this coming halving. I would like to think this is just to test its effect in an attempt to see which way the market goes if Satoshi is known to everyone. The last time he was in the news it somehow move the price up, didn't it?
I'm fairly new to BTC so my question is, how many times have someone come out claiming to be Satoshi? What were the effects (if there were) of those news to the price action of BTC? Was there a similar news that came out prior to the last halving?
full member
Activity: 265
Merit: 100

Whatever they are hiding still the price of bitcoin is uncertain this coming halving. I would like to think this is just to test its effect in an attempt to see which way the market goes if Satoshi is known to everyone. The last time he was in the news it somehow move the price up, didn't it?

This time seems different to me.

Latest news:
"
achow101
Is gavin's commit access still revoked?
12:40 am gmaxwell
Yes. I think it's unlikely to be restored. It hasn't been used in a year, and the situation with CSW is still very screwy.

"
legendary
Activity: 2478
Merit: 1018

Whatever they are hiding still the price of bitcoin is uncertain this coming halving. I would like to think this is just to test its effect in an attempt to see which way the market goes if Satoshi is known to everyone. The last time he was in the news it somehow move the price up, didn't it?
staff
Activity: 3374
Merit: 6530
Just writing some code

Gavin's commit access has also been revoked due to concerns that he may have been hacked.


I believe it's been handed back now.
Source? He is still listed as a member of the organization in github, but he just doesn't have commit access.

Edit: see https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-core-dev/2016-05-02/?msg=65319018&page=3
full member
Activity: 265
Merit: 100
hero member
Activity: 699
Merit: 500
So what would be the alerting difference between these other licenses and an MIT issued one?

In a general way, they might want to copyright bitcoin. Which makes me think this could be at a HIGHER level that people are taking it.


Bitcoin has always been open-source, MIT is also for open-source isn't that good for everyone?
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 3008
Welt Am Draht

Gavin's commit access has also been revoked due to concerns that he may have been hacked.


I believe it's been handed back now.
hero member
Activity: 699
Merit: 500
"Does MIT own the copyright to Bitcoin code?
For existing projects contributed to by MIT employees, patches are made respecting the project’s license. Bitcoin uses the MIT License. Therefore, the developers’ work is under the MIT License held by the developers (this does not mean that MIT has any control over it, but rather that it is under a non-restrictive license). New projects started by MIT employees may also be released under permissive use licenses — such as GPLv2, MIT or BSD — at the discretion of the developer. MIT does not typically allow for projects to be started with certain open-source licenses — such as Apache or GPLv3 — but members of our group have been pushing to eliminate these restrictions."

I would stay on ALERT for the upcoming commits.


The MIT license is just a license which allows anyone to copy whatever work without the need to reference the original work or credit the original authors. It is restrictionless, and it does not mean that MIT has any control over the code. Not only does Gavin work at MIT DCI, but so do Wladimir, Jonas Schnelli, and a few other guys working on Bitcoin Core RIGHT NOW (I could only think of those two off of the top of my head).

Gavin's commit access has also been revoked due to concerns that he may have been hacked.

Ahh dang. It would have been better if he had done the research and came to the conclusion himself. I/We didn't need the help. Thanks for it anyways.
full member
Activity: 265
Merit: 100
So what would be the alerting difference between these other licenses and an MIT issued one?

In a general way, they might want to copyright bitcoin. Which makes me think this could be at a HIGHER level that people are taking it.
staff
Activity: 3374
Merit: 6530
Just writing some code
"Does MIT own the copyright to Bitcoin code?
For existing projects contributed to by MIT employees, patches are made respecting the project’s license. Bitcoin uses the MIT License. Therefore, the developers’ work is under the MIT License held by the developers (this does not mean that MIT has any control over it, but rather that it is under a non-restrictive license). New projects started by MIT employees may also be released under permissive use licenses — such as GPLv2, MIT or BSD — at the discretion of the developer. MIT does not typically allow for projects to be started with certain open-source licenses — such as Apache or GPLv3 — but members of our group have been pushing to eliminate these restrictions."

I would stay on ALERT for the upcoming commits.


The MIT license is just a license which allows anyone to copy whatever work without the need to reference the original work or credit the original authors. It is restrictionless, and it does not mean that MIT has any control over the code. Not only does Gavin work at MIT DCI, but so do Wladimir, Jonas Schnelli, and a few other guys working on Bitcoin Core RIGHT NOW (I could only think of those two off of the top of my head).

Gavin's commit access has also been revoked due to concerns that he may have been hacked.



So what would be the alerting difference between these other licenses and an MIT issued one?
It isn't an MIT issued license. It is simply called the MIT license because the wording for it came from some guys that worked at MIT.
hero member
Activity: 699
Merit: 500
So what would be the alerting difference between these other licenses and an MIT issued one?
full member
Activity: 265
Merit: 100
Recent fund news:

https://medium.com/mit-media-lab-digital-currency-initiative/announcing-a-900-000-bitcoin-developer-fund-6e8b7e8b0861


"Does MIT own the copyright to Bitcoin code?
For existing projects contributed to by MIT employees, patches are made respecting the project’s license. Bitcoin uses the MIT License. Therefore, the developers’ work is under the MIT License held by the developers (this does not mean that MIT has any control over it, but rather that it is under a non-restrictive license). New projects started by MIT employees may also be released under permissive use licenses — such as GPLv2, MIT or BSD — at the discretion of the developer. MIT does not typically allow for projects to be started with certain open-source licenses — such as Apache or GPLv3 — but members of our group have been pushing to eliminate these restrictions."

I would stay on ALERT for the upcoming commits.

hero member
Activity: 699
Merit: 500
Wait...you know where bitcoin development funds come from?

Nope I really don't. Could you tell me?
full member
Activity: 265
Merit: 100
Wait...you know where bitcoin development funds come from?
hero member
Activity: 699
Merit: 500
Emmm.... What are you talking about... What coin exactly are you talking about?
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