Will transaction fees get in the way of the bull run? - page 3.

pooya87

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history has proven that "traders" don't care about the fees as it is evident from last time bitcoin was under sever spam attack and fees went ridiculously high. so no it won't get in the way of "bull run" any time soon and price will continue to rise even if fees were to go back up to ridiculous levels again.

but the important thing to keep in mind is that high fees damage and eventually prevent adoption. example is Steam (Valve), Reddit,... stopped accepting bitcoin payments. so although in short term high fees may not prevent bull run (this bull run for instance) but in the long run if things remain this way there will be no more bull runs anymore because bitcoin will be unusable and may even be replaced.

Quote from: thecodebear on May 07, 2019, 05:27:35 PM

Do you think the bull run, or at least bitcoin's role in it,

what do you mean "bitcoin's role in it"? there is only one bull run and bitcoin price rise is IT. there is nothing else!

jakelyson

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Quote from: target on May 07, 2019, 10:22:15 PM

When bullrun comes, it doesn't matter how much the transaction cost will be as its worth sending anyway. During the last 2017 bullrun, we were sending BTC and some other coins back and forth.

That is true. The network is clogged and fees skyrocketed but it did not stop bitcoin price from skyrocketing. Bet it will be better the next bull run because of Segwit and LN.

Quote from: target on May 07, 2019, 10:22:15 PM

If you however will be sending a payment to someone which will only cost about $5 but the transaction fee would be $50, that would be a horrible situation. You'd rather be using paypal for it.

There are cheaper altcoins to use even on the bull run. 2017 bull run, ETH and BTC network is clogged so I am using other coins which is cheaper to use for payments.

target

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When bullrun comes, it doesn't matter how much the transaction cost will be as its worth sending anyway. During the last 2017 bullrun, we were sending BTC and some other coins back and forth. If you however will be sending a payment to someone which will only cost about $5 but the transaction fee would be $50, that would be a horrible situation. You'd rather be using paypal for it.

exstasie

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Quote from: nc50lc on May 07, 2019, 10:02:48 PM

Answer to the title: it never does, 2017's crash wasn't caused by the fees and it reached the peak despite of the growing fee.

This. People who are thinking "new paradigm!" and planning on getting rich quick don't care about $1 fees or $10 fees, and probably not even $100 fees either. It's not coffee buyers and third world poor people who are driving bubbles. It's moneyed investors and institutions who think they're buying a piece of the future, and time is running out.

I especially think a lot of people underestimate the fervor around altcoins during Bitcoin bull markets. When altcoins are doing 10x-1,000x moves, I have to reiterate that nobody cares about fees that are negligible by comparison.

nc50lc

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Answer to the title: it never does, 2017's crash wasn't caused by the fees and it reached the peak despite of the growing fee.

Quote from: STT on May 07, 2019, 07:42:53 PM

I thought they had done a ton of things to allow lower fees to pass and allow some traffic to go around or was that not the point to new measures bought in and all the fuss people kicked up about it.

Yeah, SegWit and a small contribution by LN.
But seeing block size of average 1.2mb, it indicates that SegWit adaption isn't going pretty well after more than two years since the soft fork.

But that ±30% did a very good job on preventing mempool congestion; normally, high number of pending transactions would take weeks to clear up to normal level, but now, those past congestion only took less than a week or overnight.

But the mempool is still expected to clog unless LN is fully utilizable by a "regular joe" and most of the exchanges shift to SegWit addresses as well as regular users.
You'll know that a "major" SegWit adaption is happening if we starting to see 2mb+ blocks in a row.

-edit: typo-

STT

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Quote

It's only gonna get way worse this next bull run since it seems nothing will be done anytime soon to address block congestion.

I thought they had done a ton of things to allow lower fees to pass and allow some traffic to go around or was that not the point to new measures bought in and all the fuss people kicked up about it.

Anyway the point I was going to make is that fees could encourage more holding then normal at least in the smaller sized wallets could mean a higher price then normal not the other way round. Ironic but somehow I think it might work like that. I'm against high fees being any good for BTC long term as it shows poor efficiency and ability to scale

leowonderful

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Fees are likely going to rise if prices start going up again as people try to move their coins to exchanges to sell them off for fiat, but I too suspect fees won't be too bad this time around unless TX spamming starts back up again. Very few services also accept LN at this moment in time, with no major exchanges accepting LN payments AFAIK so I don't see LN alleviating congestion very much should the bull run start up again. Though high fees aren't ideal, I don't see it being something significantly impeding the bull run. I'll gladly pay a few dollars to get my transaction(s) through quickly.

gentlemand

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Quote from: dothebeats on May 07, 2019, 05:43:25 PM

I don't think that would be much of a problem now with the maturity of LN though I must admit that only a handful in the community have actually used the said off-chain service.

LN is still a curio and will be for quite a while yet. Most people don't regard it as BTC seemingly.

The difference between now and 2017 is that Bitmain isn't spamming. Recent transaction volumes have matched that period and fees have remained realistic. Maybe Calvin and Craigy are next up for BTC spamming.

The real deep pockets won't give a shit what a transaction costs. Retail stock market traders are used to paying several dollars per move. No one cares what the deadbeats who want to pay for their cuppa with it think.

dothebeats

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I don't think that would be much of a problem now with the maturity of LN though I must admit that only a handful in the community have actually used the said off-chain service. Anyway, as the price increases, of course, fees will also increase in respect to BTC/USD relationship plus a lot of people wanting to not miss any action during the bull run as it happens. It will get in the way for some traders that don't want to miss the even a single dollar on the transfers but certainly not going to stop the big guys from moving around funds in between platforms and wallets.

thecodebear

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We all saw the crazy $50 tx fees in December 2017. It's only gonna get way worse this next bull run since it seems nothing will be done anytime soon to address block congestion.

Do you think the bull run, or at least bitcoin's role in it, will get cut short significantly by absurd transaction fees in the next couple of years?

I could definitely see transaction fees going into the hundreds of dollars when the price really starts getting crazy, which I think would pretty quickly stop bitcoins bull run in its tracks. This is the only thing I'm worried about for the bull run over the next couple of years. Everything else looks positive except that nothing was done to address tx capacity during the down market.

Topic: Will transaction fees get in the way of the bull run? - page 3. (Read 604 times)