Topic: Working online for bitcoin - would you give this up? - page 3. (Read 1073 times)

It sounds like a good idea, except the camera part because I don't know how that camera will take and transmit my face,,, how do I know it is not doing it for bad purposes especially if it is third party? I am OK with giving myself some other method for verifying I am a real person there. This heartbeat thing while on my computer is fine, for example.

And how does payment charge work,,, If I sit there for 8 hours will I get minimum $8 or will I only get paid per hour of tasked work, because the only way I do this is if I can sit and earn for the full 8 hours otherwise my bills and time is wasted.

If I can sit 8 hours and get $8 min,,, I am definitely interested.

I really want to applaud any projects that would increase Crypto currency usage and adoption and also spreading of tokens to as many individuals as possible. When Crypto currencies are hoarded by a few individuals (Whales).. manipulation of the price becomes easier, so it will reduce price manipulation, if projects like this succeeds.   

I also like projects that helps with poverty alleviation, because too much wealth are centralized in first world countries. There are many people living in 3rd world countries that are earning a minimum wage of $10 a week if they are lucky enough to be employed. 

Most of those people would not worry about sacrificing their privacy or leaving traces behind of their real identity. Unemployment has risen exponentially during the Covid-19 pandemic and people are struggling to survive. ($1 per hour will help them to survive) 

It will be very bad, if a project like this was used to exploit people who are already struggling. (If you are willing to work for $1/hour.. you are one of those people)

I will certainly monitor the progress of this project and then point people in this direction that are in need, because I know many people who are currently unemployed and in need of some kind of income. 

From this it sounds like the ideal candidate will be someone inside their home with a PC and some system to notify them of tasks. This may sound strange to some but this is perfect for millions of educated housewives and unemployed grads who want to do something that can get them a little cash in pocket. Really appreciate your intention for this to also be a way of spreading crypto-wealth.

I think the major issue with would be finding decent people to work for the club. I like the idea of private invitation. You would also need to vet the people who get in. How do you plan to do that? Personally, I would love to refer some people to this service whom i know to be sincere and looking for such an opportunity. Please let me know if you are comfortable using this method. I see no reason as to why it shouldn't work if you vet the recruiters well and maybe put a limit to the number of people someone can refer. I don't expect to be paid for referring. Providing someone a way to fish is a reward in itself in crypto.

Perfectly put!  The service I choose (or have someone create) will have to use automated encryption keys the staff does not have, and the encrypted files themselves are protected against access and deleted immediately after use.   I've even decided on a GUID as the identifier so I can't guesstimate who it is based on the signup date.  This GUID will be associated with your profile.  The service will just send the GUID and the info eg:  "Profile available".


Let me explain how the system will work.   I am going to use terms online/offline, on/off.

The system will have to scale to the frequency of the tasks coming in.  You won't be able to go online whenever you want; there will have to be a queue system.  You go online, and if there is a queue you'll be told how long and be offered notifications when you are going online so you don't have to sit staring at a timer.  I also don't want people waiting for more than 15 minutes, so flow of people into this service will be controlled by the private club membership.   Statistics can show me the tasks coming in, the number of people needed, the number available, the price of a basic service, etc.  Overall the system has to lose money or have a delay in service response.  That loss is controlled by the queue, and recovered by our service prices.

About going offline:  You will go offline if you don't acknowledge a task, or stop moving for a few seconds.  (I'll have to see what options there are.)  It will warn you before it boots you, and I'll have a "Break" mode that will take you offline but you'll skip the queue when you come back.   WIP: need to allow for multiple people on one computer.


Once people have been doing specific tasks for a while, we will be able to offer higher end services for more money.  Some may not even require you to be online. I would love to see new projects using this service and spreading some crypto around. 

While privacy is indeed a huge concern especially when it has to do with the camera, those who need the job can still be anonymous, the system needs to run in a way that there are no links at all between whatever the 3rd party collects and the person's personal/public data, in other words, no connection between the member identity in your club and their identity on this forum for an example.

It's pretty useless to have a video of someone sitting in front of their PC when you don't know that person, but if somehow it was linked to their social media or bitcointalk account then that will be an issue.

Also, there is a major issue with the way you plan to operate, you are going to pay the members just for being online, which means there is a possibility that the system fails to send a task for a whole hour or two and then you simply need to pay them for that even if they haven't done anything, the question is, where will the money come from?

The payment model is somehow unfair, it's to everybody's interest not to receive any tasks, so those who get more tasks will be paid an equal amount to those who were somehow lucky and went away with jut 1-2 tasks, also the type of the tasks is important.

How about you don't pay them per hour and simply pay them by the tasks that are equivalent to your pay rate? if you are willing to pay $1 an hour, and your tasks cost 10 cents each, give them 10 tasks within an hour, if there are more tasks they make more money if there are fewer tasks then the money doesn't have to "come from nowhere".

Now if you are looking for people who have a bit of skill and are into crypto for the tech, then chances are this isn't going to work, but if you are just looking for people then it's almost guaranteed that even a low pay rate like that will attract a large number of people despite the privacy aspect.



 

This is why Mr. OG lies.

I will never ask for your personal information, so don't sweat it. 

Vod has been caught posting personal information of users on this forum. This is probably the worst case scenario for anyone to give up their info.

DO NOT GIVE YOUR INFORMATION TO THIS INDIVIDUAL.

I like your continued interest; helping me flush out ideas.

I need to verify that the user is unique - they cannot complete the task successfully if I don't know they are unique.  When I get into mediation, for example - a person could paste an address that isn't correct.  The system won't know, but a person can look at the evidence and say "yes, that is his address" or "no, that is not his address".   If you get one person running dozens of tasks, he can easily skew the results in his favor.

If I want to be able to pay per hour, I need to make sure the person is the same as they were before, and that they are in front of the computer.

Ahh ok, what kinds of tasks will you be getting people to do?  That will have a big impact on the overall flow of the model.

Also, what is the purpose of the camera shot?  Just to ensure that real people are completing tasks and that it's not being automated?

If someone did automate it, and that software completed the tasks to the same standard you would expect from a person, then that would be good for both you and them?  If they can't automate it as good as a human would manually, then you will detect that by their output and then can shut them out anyway.

ie. instead of the metric being "is a real person completing the task", you could sidestep the hassle of involving cameras and just change the metric to "is the task being completed to a satisfactory level" which is much easier to check and won't involve messy privacy stuff.

While it is true that current AI algorithms are fooled by the mask, there is still enough bio metric information to 100% identify you - the AI just needs to be retrained.
Edit:  Found a link:  https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/12/tech/face-recognition-masks/index.html

This service will be one of many in the club.  No one will have to use their camera if they don't want to earn money this way.

No.  I am creating my own tasks.  With automation as one of my goals, I need to deal with situations that AI cannot handle yet. 

The club has many services.  When a service needs verification, there would be a task created for an odd number of users.  The task will have links, and the link that is clicked on the most is considered the solution.


If you step away from the computer, or do not accept/reject a task, you will go unavailable.  You are only paid when you are available to do tasks.  I will prob need to adjust my numbers to pay a bit per task as well.

Ok, so you've got task providers you're partnering though, and your business model is that the more tasks workers complete, the more you make.

So your ideal situation is as many tasks as possible being completed, but at any level (even if there are just 100 tasks a day being completed), you're going to want fast responses which means you're going to want to have people permanently ready.

How are you going to balance the growth in tasks with the growth in users?  Tasks grow too fast and your ability to have them completed quickly will diminish, users grow too fast and it's wasted labour that could be used to increase revenue.

Re your last point, I work on my laptop 14 hours a day on average and even with a tab open on a different window and a noise, there's a good chance I would miss a lot of jobs because of the normal everyday things that people do - toilet, food, breaks, etc. you couldn't expect people to be proactively responsive all day, and when they miss opportunities they're being paid for nothing.

What would stop people from collecting the $1 per hour and deliberately not doing much/any work? Also what kinds of tasks are you expecting them to do?  Captcha completions, link clicks etc?

I appreciate these ideas, as I'm still working on the details.

I don't expect people to be available for long periods of time.  When you first become available, you will get some tasks, and it will slow down.  The system will not pass a second task from the same person to you right away. 

Remember that I'm not going to have hundreds of people expecting to be paid hourly.  The club is private and will grow as people start to use the services.  When you signal availability, you could go into a queue waiting until someone else becomes unavailable.   In other words, you people won't be available for hours a day at the start.



There will be two timers - the first one is to accept the task.   Then, depending on the task, you have a second timer to complete the task.  I don't see any reason why a person working on their computer could not click a link within seconds, if they were expecting one. 

You'll have no trouble at all getting people to sign up for this.. whether or not they'll be able to respond in 15 seconds to a request I'm not sure, and ideally you want a situation where it's as common as possible for people to respond and not skip to other people.  The more frequently people respond and complete the tasks, the less people you need to have on call to get your quotas completed, so the less $1 per hours you have to pay out to get the same volume of tasks complete.

It's a good model though - having a list of hundreds of people and a first come first serve basis.

Instead of paying someone a guaranteed $1 per hour irrespective of whether or not they complete any tasks though (but as long as they are "available" for the whole hour), why not pay a lesser amount as a basis (or even no base rate) and then pay per completion?  There will still be a lot of people from 3WC that will complete the tasks, you'll still have a queue of people waiting to complete them, but you won't be having to pay out $1 per hour * the length of the queue in order to get the workload pushed through.

Thank you!  Obviously I can't make guarantees on security, but I am committed to building an anonymous, automated and secure system.  If I do something and it doesn't work, then we try something else until it does work.  The key is openness as we develop together.   You won't see me unilaterally changing terms to scam thousands of BTC. 

I am still amazed that crypto is over a decade old and people allow themselves to be scammed on this forum.

I am just saying, even the big global players have a problem with security. it doesn't matter what exactly the omission was, it happened.
as far as I can see many are sceptical, so if you need people to test you can contact me when you start with this. more because I am curious than because of money 

Once my club members prove their skills, I'm sure we can accept specialized tasks at a higher pay rate.  Consider the $1 a "proof of concept" if you wish, although $1 is more than enough for millions of skilled workers if they are in developing countries


The extension could not have access rights to escape a virtual container.  A scammer can create hundreds of virtual machines and flip between them.


WIP:  User will receive notification of task.  They will have xx seconds to accept, or they will become unavailable, and the task will be offered to the next user.  You will also become unavailable if the camera can't see you.  In either case, you just need to set yourself as available again.

You are paid per hour of available time - not just the seconds spent doing the task.


Hackers can only access unencrypted information.  In the twitter hack, like most hacks, they were helped by an insider.    If no human can access the encrypted data, and this is provable, then a hacker cannot touch it.  


I really doubt the service would be storing these videos.  All they need is encrypted data of what you look like, then they scan the images coming in to see if you are there.  There would be no reason to keep the information after that.   If this third party uses AWS, for example, we can verify the data is being deleted.  


That's great for a task that doesn't require exclusivity.  If the task is a vote/opinion for example, just recording someone checking a box opens the entire system up to abuse.


This program will not interest those who have high expenses.   When you are surfing the web, or reading your email, set yourself to available.  But if you pay to go online, you can join other programs that don't require you to be online as you do them.[/list]

I'm not a coder/developer but perhaps there might be a way in the extension itself to assign unique digital signature/print for each computer/device.
<sup>- I do know it won't completely eliminate this issue but it'll significantly reduce the chances of someone abusing it.
- AFAIK, it'll have only a minor impact when it comes to deanonymizing.</sup>

• If a certain task moves to the next person ^{[even though they were available but somehow couldn't deliver it]}, they won't be receiving anything. Am I right?
• What I'm also trying to understand is how the timer works?
  ^{- Does it count only when we're doing the tasks?}

yes, this pretty much violates privacy. there are already applications that track the activity on the computer, may freelance services use it to control working hours. Vod says they haven't access to anything, hackers also haven't access to anything, but almost every day we hear about a new hack and certain complications that as result. for example the last thing with the Twitter hack, who put a lot of money into a security.
I don't think the information is safe there, especially if your program comes out of anonymity, become famous and pay attention to possible available data.

although when I think about it, I'm not sure what anyone could do with my video of me sitting at a desk.

Just like everyone, the usage of camera. I know we don't have much privacy these days, but i won't make it any worse.


IMO crypto enthusiasts usually also privacy enthusiasts who likely to reject your invitation due to privacy concern.