How's that old saying go?
Oh yeah..."Takes one to know one!" :|
Topic: World Bank Report: Bitcoin is a ‘Naturally Occurring’ Ponzi (Read 3945 times)
They are confusing bitcoin and USD with their ponzi comparison 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0
I watched all vids from that guy. I'm not sure if they are 100% correct, but if they are, than...yeah....banksters calling even original dude named Ponzi, ponzi, is just hilarious.
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No I do not believe Bitcoin is a naturally occurring ponzi in fact this makes me angry since that has been disproven so many times its not even funny at this point.
Well I read the scribd and Kaushik Basu was wrong on multiple levels.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/234241017/Ponzis-The-Science-and-Mystique-of-a-Class-of-Financial-Frauds
His argument on natural occurring ponzis is that housing, gold, and similar assets face bubbles in essence.
A bubble is part of the normal market fluctuation, and while prices may be inflated people recognize they have a value, so they are not naturally occurring ponzi schemes but fluctuating assets as what happens in any financial marketplace.
Contrary to a widely-held opinion, Bitcoin is not a deliberate Ponzi. And there is little to learn by treating it as such. The main value of Bitcoin may, in retrospect, turn out to be the lessons it offers to central banks on the prospects of electronic currency, and on how to enhance efficiency and cut transactions cost.
Facepalm (What I learned from this) BS one of the benefits of bitcoins will be to work as a voluntary mechanism of trade that people will perceive as having a value, this exchange will occur and form the new frontier of finance.
The OP is a dinosaur born in the years of fiat currencies and does not know the financial systems that existed before it which have a basis on real physical goods not just numbers on a computer with unlimited quantity.
Bitcoin has 21 million coins that remains static never changing unlike a reserve which can print as much as is needed and reduce a persons assets through inflation.
Similar to any other financial system a central bank and especially a world bank does not really print money but demands severe economic and material costs on any nation that borrows from it.
For this reason latin america and the BRICS are building their own financial systems independent of the IMF and we will see a revolutionary change in the way old finance is done, mixed with the new finance digital payment systems like Bitcoin will provide.
(“So Bitcoin isn’t a currency. It is [by the way] a Ponzi game and a conduit for criminal/illegal activities. And it isn’t safe given hacking of it.”)
Please go on oh grand master of the shills called the Federal Reserve
Well I read the scribd and Kaushik Basu was wrong on multiple levels.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/234241017/Ponzis-The-Science-and-Mystique-of-a-Class-of-Financial-Frauds
His argument on natural occurring ponzis is that housing, gold, and similar assets face bubbles in essence.
A bubble is part of the normal market fluctuation, and while prices may be inflated people recognize they have a value, so they are not naturally occurring ponzi schemes but fluctuating assets as what happens in any financial marketplace.
Contrary to a widely-held opinion, Bitcoin is not a deliberate Ponzi. And there is little to learn by treating it as such. The main value of Bitcoin may, in retrospect, turn out to be the lessons it offers to central banks on the prospects of electronic currency, and on how to enhance efficiency and cut transactions cost.
Facepalm (What I learned from this) BS one of the benefits of bitcoins will be to work as a voluntary mechanism of trade that people will perceive as having a value, this exchange will occur and form the new frontier of finance.
The OP is a dinosaur born in the years of fiat currencies and does not know the financial systems that existed before it which have a basis on real physical goods not just numbers on a computer with unlimited quantity.
Bitcoin has 21 million coins that remains static never changing unlike a reserve which can print as much as is needed and reduce a persons assets through inflation.
Similar to any other financial system a central bank and especially a world bank does not really print money but demands severe economic and material costs on any nation that borrows from it.
For this reason latin america and the BRICS are building their own financial systems independent of the IMF and we will see a revolutionary change in the way old finance is done, mixed with the new finance digital payment systems like Bitcoin will provide.
(“So Bitcoin isn’t a currency. It is [by the way] a Ponzi game and a conduit for criminal/illegal activities. And it isn’t safe given hacking of it.”)
Please go on oh grand master of the shills called the Federal Reserve
Hah this is such a joke.
Anyone who looked at the situation logically, or even just simply rationally, would see that fiat currencies, which are created out IOUs the banking cartels give each and created out of thin air, with insane inflation and global debts that can never be paid, is far, far, far more a ponzi scheme than is bitcoin, which is a limited commodity created with great difficulty and by nature, an international currency not tied to any failing nation states or funny-money fiat.
Anyone who looked at the situation logically, or even just simply rationally, would see that fiat currencies, which are created out IOUs the banking cartels give each and created out of thin air, with insane inflation and global debts that can never be paid, is far, far, far more a ponzi scheme than is bitcoin, which is a limited commodity created with great difficulty and by nature, an international currency not tied to any failing nation states or funny-money fiat.
"Gold is another example, as it has witnessed numerous bubbles and crashes over the years. Basu notes that gold lost more value in two days of April 2014 than it did in thirty years, baffling both speculators and analysts."
and then there are some of us who know that gold was manipulated down and therefore is artificially priced much lower than it's real value. the reason why it has been manipulated lower is to help support the usd reserve currency and other fiat ponzi schemes.
and then there are some of us who know that gold was manipulated down and therefore is artificially priced much lower than it's real value. the reason why it has been manipulated lower is to help support the usd reserve currency and other fiat ponzi schemes.
bitcoin is also manipulated. cant seriously assume this pre-3-bubbles were genuine and nor will be the next one (or the downfall).
but i think its been manipulated to take over from global finance (as it is a sinking ship, reaching its maximum potential and facing technological barriers)
I think Naturally Occurring’ Ponzi thesis is somewhat correct.
The problem with the "naturally-occurring Ponzi" thesis is that a "naturally-occurring" Ponzi scheme isn't even a Ponzi scheme. Plus, the term describes all commodity investments.
I really think the author of the report is not an expert in finance, nor does he understand how the bitcoin economy works (nor how bitcoin works)
I think World Bank reads too much this forum to come to this conclusion.
They still have no idea why decentralized currency is the future.
They still have no idea why decentralized currency is the future.
No one is promising anyone future returns here.
Also, I'd argue that there are in fact central figures promising returns. You have all the big names. Andreas Andbopogogpffopolus, Gavin Andresen, etc. They're all very much claiming that Bitcoin is going to be the next big thing. And they're all huge holders of Bitcoin.
I'm just a random, ain't I?
I wonder what he says about State run lottery systems?
Like the banksters can talk! Just maybe if they'd bothered themselves to offer real savings rates, hadn't devalued fiat, not brought the economies to their knees (more than once) then and only then can they talk.
Well I guess Charles Ponzi could be considered 'naturally occurring' :/ When you're the world leader in Ponzi's maybe everything starts to look like a Ponzi after a while.
+100 , people don't like new competition.
The World Bank is changing the definition of "ponzi scheme". They saying that Bitcoin is in a bubble, caused by people buying and holding with the prospect of making a return on an investment rather than using Bitcoin as an exchange of value, currency.
The interesting thing is that Bitcoin can only be defined as a bubble when its conversion into fiat (USD, Euro, etc) is brought into context. If Bitcoin is used as an exchange of value it loses some of its "bubble valuation".
I think the real question is whether Bitcoin can be a currency in itself, can people only or mostly transact only in Bitcoin? If so, its conversion to fiat is less meaningful and therefore the bubble context starts to fade.
The interesting thing is that Bitcoin can only be defined as a bubble when its conversion into fiat (USD, Euro, etc) is brought into context. If Bitcoin is used as an exchange of value it loses some of its "bubble valuation".
I think the real question is whether Bitcoin can be a currency in itself, can people only or mostly transact only in Bitcoin? If so, its conversion to fiat is less meaningful and therefore the bubble context starts to fade.
This is how the game has started, isn't it?
The bankers are now going to try and discredit Bitcoin and promote an alt of their own (Or just try to wreck cryptos altogether, with the latter being more likely) and so they're now going to be doing things like these. We must fight against their slander and lies!
This is how the crypto community will have to respond. We have to push for adoption faster, and educate more and more people on the benefits of Bitcoin.
We can win this, but we have to be able to slander whatever they do ASAP. If they make "Worldcoin" (Or whatever, name is already suspicious) we have to tell people why it's bad and no different from a credit card. They'll have to keep the code open-source, or they'll be scrutinised by the community, etc.
This is a game they want to play, but Bitcoin is here to stay. (Sorry for rhyme)
The bankers are now going to try and discredit Bitcoin and promote an alt of their own (Or just try to wreck cryptos altogether, with the latter being more likely) and so they're now going to be doing things like these. We must fight against their slander and lies!
This is how the crypto community will have to respond. We have to push for adoption faster, and educate more and more people on the benefits of Bitcoin.
We can win this, but we have to be able to slander whatever they do ASAP. If they make "Worldcoin" (Or whatever, name is already suspicious) we have to tell people why it's bad and no different from a credit card. They'll have to keep the code open-source, or they'll be scrutinised by the community, etc.
This is a game they want to play, but Bitcoin is here to stay. (Sorry for rhyme)
No one is promising anyone future returns here.
Also, I'd argue that there are in fact central figures promising returns. You have all the big names. Andreas Andbopogogpffopolus, Gavin Andresen, etc. They're all very much claiming that Bitcoin is going to be the next big thing. And they're all huge holders of Bitcoin.
No one is promising anyone future returns here.
Have a look at this recent survey.http://imgur.com/a/WcMIk In particular, pay particular attention to slide 13.
So while there isn't necessarily a central figure promising returns, the attitude of the community as a whole is.
The best terminology I can use to describe what's going on is that it's a 'Decentralized Ponzi' of sorts. Honestly, it's one of the most interesting things about Bitcoin to me.
From BANK
Well, how stupid World Bank to think BTC is a ponzi
i bet they don't how Ponzi work OR how BTC works
how can they call themself 'world bank'
i think they just made a fake report to destroy BTC Prize
Well, how stupid World Bank to think BTC is a ponzi
i bet they don't how Ponzi work OR how BTC works
how can they call themself 'world bank'
i think they just made a fake report to destroy BTC Prize
Speculative bubble is not, by definition, a Ponzi. No one is promising anyone future returns here.
World bank writer wants to malign human tendency to follow the herd. This tendency to see your neighbor's profits and be envious of them and in turn attempt to replicate them yourself is as old as mankind itself.
I guess the world bank would call the human race a Ponzi in that case.
World bank writer wants to malign human tendency to follow the herd. This tendency to see your neighbor's profits and be envious of them and in turn attempt to replicate them yourself is as old as mankind itself.
I guess the world bank would call the human race a Ponzi in that case.
Kinda like reading a report by McDonald's on how salads are evil and make you sterile
Hope CoinDesk will start linking to the reports they cite. It's pretty annoying.
I believe if anybody where to be an expert in recognizing ponzi's it would be the World Bank :-P
"The gig is up boys. Time to join the 21st century you fat cat bankers!"
"The gig is up boys. Time to join the 21st century you fat cat bankers!"
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