World Debt Clock by nations. - page 3.

STT

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I thought Norway had a national wealth fund rather then a national debt but perhaps they have both. Apparently they have invested 70k for every citizen where as USA just has the debt of owing 70k per citizen though for sure every country has assets in its favor and USA has great commodity wealth. I think the country will be fine but the currency will not, you can see how much the interest payment already rose and there is no benefit returned unlike various spending programs which form part of the GDP.

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special case because USD is still considered the world's reserve currency

Before that it was GBP also very special case as an empire easily the worlds reserve currency, highly held in reserve and it failed over some decades to keep that value and we moved on to the next special case. USA was 50% of the worlds trade when it became the reserve, nobody can take over in that fashion so I dont know who'd be the reserve next.

Vispilio

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Quote from: wallet4bitcoin on October 25, 2023, 04:25:01 AM

The World is owing the World!

These debts are still in the hands of the world. When I hear countries like America being in debt, I'm forced to ask, what is a country with liberty to print as much as they want to, to finance whatever they deem fit, doing with debt clock on themselves. I can understand the debt of the then days America, when they had to borrow $100m from J.P.Morgan but for today's America, I'm still left in awe.

Excellent point, USA should be considered a special case because USD is still considered the world's reserve currency by most nations on Earth (which might change soon), with many central banks keeping considerable reserves of USD as part of their policy.

USA being in tremendous debt means they will keep printing unlimited dollars, and so the rest of the world will bear the brunt of this burden as their own USD reserves will get inevitably diluted and devalued...

The organization who has the mandate to print unlimited USD will be the least affected group, naturally, until such time that USD loses its reserve currency / safe haven influence on the world economy...

wallet4bitcoin

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The World is owing the World!

These debts are still in the hands of the world. When I hear countries like America being in debt, I'm forced to ask, what is a country with liberty to print as much as they want to, to finance whatever they deem fit, doing with debt clock on themselves. I can understand the debt of the then days America, when they had to borrow $100m from J.P.Morgan but for today's America, I'm still left in awe.

Catenaccio

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Two more charts for US debt. Post-Pandemic Debt Dynamics is terrible for US. citizens.

DrBeer

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Quote from: pooya87 on October 24, 2023, 10:37:21 AM

The biggest thing to look for in National Debt isn't only the size of the debt (or even the ratio with GDP). The important thing to look for is where the money is going!
You see in some cases printing money out of thin air is not the worst thing but only as long as that money is entering a healthy economy and goes into production. But when the money is being printed to cover some deficit, pay for extra costs that never existed before (like starting a couple of very costly wars), etc. that is when it becomes problematic because the government would be increasing liquidity WITHOUT increasing the size of the economy. That means higher inflation.

This is exactly why US has a very high interest rate these days. All the money they've been printing has been increasing the inflation and to battle that they are desperately manipulating the interest rates which is not working as well as it should while causing recession at the same time...

They started beautifully and essentially, and directly but "hidden" pointed at Russia, and then stupidly jumped to ... USA

I will explain the problem with your position. The US, yes I do not deny it, prints DOLLAR quite easily. But the market that consumes the dollar:
- Is the US domestic market, with actually the largest consumption of anything and everything by the entire US population.
- The DOLLAR is the currency of the world economy, which is many times larger than the US economy and consumption, and will absorb almost any amount of "printed dollars"
- The USA, participating in bringing order, where the principles of legality, democracy, law and other human values are violated, does not print money that becomes "ashes", as for example Russia does now, where about 40% of GDP (according to official figures, but not officially more), within 1-6 months turns into ashes, rust and ... corpses.
- The USA INVEST in its economy, because even "non-refundable aid" brings benefits to the USA.
- Plus, in the context of the topic - calculate the balance of the size of the US debt, and the size of the world's obligations to the US

DeathAngel

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All this shows me is that the fiat ponzi scheme is slowly coming to an end of life. Any system that simply creates, prints money as an antidote to spiralling debt is doomed to failure. It’s crazy that we are conditioned to accept this, open your eyes & buy bitcoin.

jasonjm

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Over the past few years, debt is continuously increasing globally. The COVID-19 pandemic fueled this graph. Debt trap is a global phenomenon, and we have seen this first time when China acquired a port in Sri Lanka a few years ago. The debt to GDP ratio of different countries is on the rise, and we will see many countries default on their loans and subsequently, the lender will acquire an important strategic location or a natural resource.

https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/CG_DEBT_GDP@GDD/CHN/FRA/DEU/ITA/JPN/GBR/USA

As you can see from the above statistics, every country in the World has some amount of debt, and this will trouble them in the future.

With all this growing debt burden, we are looking at more and more inflation and unemployment. I am particularly thinking about the underdeveloped African and Asian countries; their debt-to-GDP ratio is on the higher side, and they are taking more and more loans to pay back their debt. They are trapped in this cycle forever.
For an in-depth analysis of the debt trap and capitalist mindset, I suggest you read the book "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins.

m2017

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Quote from: Catenaccio on October 24, 2023, 12:46:58 AM

~snip

In 10-20 years, they will add a bitcoin to these monitoring sites and to pictures with statistics on countries. And then the national debt of various countries will be expressed in bitcoins. Or have you decided that if the bitcoin is accepted at the global level by all states (let's imagine this possibility for a moment), then government debts will disappear on their own?

The most paradoxical thing is that the country with the largest public debt has one of the strongest economies in the world and one of the highest standards of living of the population. This world is not subject to reasonable and logically rational assessment.

pooya87

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The biggest thing to look for in National Debt isn't only the size of the debt (or even the ratio with GDP). The important thing to look for is where the money is going!
You see in some cases printing money out of thin air is not the worst thing but only as long as that money is entering a healthy economy and goes into production. But when the money is being printed to cover some deficit, pay for extra costs that never existed before (like starting a couple of very costly wars), etc. that is when it becomes problematic because the government would be increasing liquidity WITHOUT increasing the size of the economy. That means higher inflation.

This is exactly why US has a very high interest rate these days. All the money they've been printing has been increasing the inflation and to battle that they are desperately manipulating the interest rates which is not working as well as it should while causing recession at the same time...

Don Pedro Dinero

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Quote from: Lucius on October 24, 2023, 05:55:25 AM

I'm not an economist, but I've read several times that Japan tested some very strange economic models in the past that led to exactly these results. In addition, I think that Japan (as well as some other countries) actually owe most of these debts to themselves, because it is about borrowing money that happened between various domestic institutions.

You can check about that on https://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html on the right hand side where it says: 'external debt to GDP ratio' where you can see that of the 300% debt to GDP it has, 'only' 110% (lol) is owed to foreign creditors. In the end, the curious thing about these watches is that they seem to have no reverse gear, they are like time that always goes forwards. The debt system seems to be built in such a way that it cannot stop growing.

DrBeer

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It is also worth noting that all these indicators should not be taken as "everything is bad and critical".
They are indicators of :
How much everyone owes everyone else
and also
How much we owe to ourselves

Just dry figures in the perception of "they owe someone 1005008000 dollars", do not quite objectively describe the real situation

Alpha Marine

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Quote from: Lucius on October 24, 2023, 05:55:25 AM

I'm not an economist, but I've read several times that Japan tested some very strange economic models in the past that led to exactly these results. In addition, I think that Japan (as well as some other countries) actually owe most of these debts to themselves, because it is about borrowing money that happened between various domestic institutions.

I read a while ago about how the Japanese react to the price change in Japan and how it has slowed down their economy.
Presently, Japan has an inflation rate of just over 2% and they've maintained that rate for over a decade, but studies have shown that only a very small percentage of people in Japan will buy a product or service if there is a slight price increase, meanwhile the cost of production increases.

So an increased cost of production with no change in the price of the commodity will only reduce the profit of businesses and this affects the economy because it can either force the business to employ fewer people, pay lesser salaries, produce inferior products, discourage foreign investors, etc.
As a buyer, it's good for the individuals, but it weakens the economy.

hugeblack

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Global debt has accelerated sharply over the last 10 years due to the Corona pandemic, monetary stimulus packages, and geopolitical conflicts, and it is likely to continue accelerating due to the military buildup between countries. Citizens and taxpayers often pay the price either by increasing taxes or by decreasing exchange rates (the value of the currency), so it increases. Labor strikes and the feeling that salaries are no longer what they were in the past, and this tension often leads to revolutions or wars. Therefore, all countries do not pay attention to the debt crisis, which is often passed on to future generations or borne by the middle and poor classes.

Bananington

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Everyone should by now understand how much the foreign reserves have in store, that's not enough still, as compared to this huge deficits I can see on the chart. It has become one common norm to see the richest or most developed country in much more debt than can be repaid. Taking loans just becomes easier than using whats left in the purse or what's gotten from tax to develop or implement good projects for development.

kingvirtus09

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The U.S. is still the world's leading debtor; should the US be happy that they are the world's most indebted country? The question is, can the US pay off such a huge debt of 33 trillion dollars?

Who are the developed countries? They are the ones with big debts to the central banks. And they are given loans because of the good economic performance of their countries and the high interest that they also give to those who will lend them money.

Natsuu

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Yeah, it's concerning how governments and central banks have piled up massive debts and overprinted money. I've seen those debt clocks online and they can be pretty eye-opening even here. The USA's national debt is staggering and China's huge gold demand reflects its economic strength. I mean I think the comkon thing about these two is that they both constantly adapt policies to maintain economic stability and the specifics involve complex strategies and decisions made by their governments and central banks. It's crucial for any country to find a balance and address these financial challenges for a stable global economy. I hope our country does an improvement too even at a minimum.

NotATether

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on October 24, 2023, 02:04:51 AM

This article explains how the majority of money in the modern economy is created by commercial banks making loans

TL;DR: You ask for a loan, the bank writes a "check" for you with that amount on it, and they give it to you. They don't pay any money or give any collarteral to third parties to write the check. It's just created electronically from thin air.

All of the money from loans is technically described as credit, to you and me, it is correct to just call it debt.

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The ratio of debt to GDP is much more important than the value of debt

Yeah.

And by using Bitcoin, you can opt out of debt/GDP ratios.

karabiber

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National debts have become dangerous for international trade and the economic trajectory of countries. The fact that the USA, with the largest debt, is constantly raising the borrowing limit and being forced to do so raises the question of how long this will continue. USA debt is the foundation of global trade, built on decades of trust, but this is about to lead to a dead end for capitalism. A USA default would be tantamount to the end of capitalism.

If this is not to happen, national debt must be reduced. With the pandemic, the system was severely damaged and the increase in the debt limit was a good thing for global trade but with the exit from the pandemic, it became clear that this was not a good situation at all. The dominance of the dollar in global trade is among these reasons. For example, countries started to work on common currencies in global trade as the system started to get bogged down.

Lucius

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Quote from: davis196 on October 24, 2023, 02:33:21 AM

It's funny how Russia has the best debt/GDP ratio, while Japan has the worst. I used to remember that the Japanese people were pretty motivated at saving more money, but on the other hand, the Japanese government has enormous debt.
~snip~

I'm not an economist, but I've read several times that Japan tested some very strange economic models in the past that led to exactly these results. In addition, I think that Japan (as well as some other countries) actually owe most of these debts to themselves, because it is about borrowing money that happened between various domestic institutions.

Of course, it is very strange that we see such numbers in a country where people are very hardworking, mostly very honest and have a sense of business - but since the time of capitulation in the Second World War, they have been greatly influenced by those who defeated them, and this is the case even today. I read that part of the Japanese population is even protesting and demanding the departure of US military forces from Japan, but Japanese politics is anything but sovereign and free to make such a move.

Catenaccio

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on October 24, 2023, 02:04:51 AM

The ratio of debt to GDP is much more important than the value of debt

Good point that I definitely agree with you.

I don't defend myself because I did not pay my attention on it, appreciate your help. After I read your post, think a while, I think that Debt to GDP ratio is for deep analysis. First with the National Debt, we can focus on countries with biggest economic sizes and their debts. After that if we want to check deeper, we can look at their Debt/GDP ratios.

Topic: World Debt Clock by nations. - page 3. (Read 623 times)