World debt hits new record: good for BTC - page 4.

audaciousbeing

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Quote from: countryfree on April 18, 2018, 11:00:49 AM

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-18/world-debt-hits-record-164-trillion-as-crisis-hangover-lingers

$164 trillion! That is an awfully big pile of money, but governments think it's not big enough. They keep on borrowing more every year. If there's no crash, it will be a miracle.

Pray God.
Or buy BTC!
Grin

The rulers and managers of the economies of this world are good at one thing which is breaking new records and this is another one to be joyous about. It is not also not an informed choice to blame the leaders alone because in most societies, its always because of the people that this money are being borrowed. Over here, citizens complained of no good roads, electricity, hospitals but they cannot cough out all the needed funds in terms of taxes and government would be insensitive to tax citizens such huge amount. Any government that tries that, wont win during the next election so they are left with no other choice than to borrow, and when they do that and we have to incur debt for the upcoming generations, same people will clamor on what the money borrowed is being used for.

Now to bitcoin, I still don't see how bitcoin would come to save the day in this kind of situation because its not free money, so also does not mean that to perform all of the functions above, they won't borrow, neither will they tax their citizens to death or because of that the citizens stop asking for more, its still going to be the same situation all over again.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: 1Referee on April 19, 2018, 08:04:51 AM

Stocks are nothing more than an investment tool. Bitcoin is a multifunctional tool, and is something that you don't necessarily need to convert to fiat in order to sustain yourself. If merchant adoption picks up in the forthcoming years, and that will very likely happen with LN, people are able to conveniently do grocery shopping, pay bills with Bitcoin, etc. The difference between Bitcoin as investment tool and a currency tool won't endlessly remain as massive as it might be right now. Stability, or something close to that will do miracles. It takes time, I know, but everything takes time in the end.

At some point there will be a time where you have to pay a nasty, like really nasty premium in order to convince people to sell their coins to you for fiat.

Indeed, there will come such a time. But until then Bitcoin is not strong enough. You are right in theory, but imho the reality is not like that, not yet.
"If merchant adoption picks up in the forthcoming years".. contains two big keywords: IF and YEARS. And you also admitted it takes time.
In that time is quite likely the world will face more than one crisis, and the first one will not be nice with us either.

maculeth

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BountyMarketCap

is this the beginning of the government start legalizing bitcoin and start investing in bitcoin for their benefit and also the state? of course this is good news, because along with the demands on the bitcoin that keeps increasing, then the price will keep at the pump.

1Referee

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on April 19, 2018, 07:19:38 AM

If there's a crash, people would sell Bitcoin and stocks to cover other needs.
We've seen already Bitcoin falling just before the stocks have fallen too. Many use Bitcoin in a similar way to stocks.

Maybe I'm wrong. I hope so. But.. what if I'm right?

Stocks are nothing more than an investment tool. Bitcoin is a multifunctional tool, and is something that you don't necessarily need to convert to fiat in order to sustain yourself. If merchant adoption picks up in the forthcoming years, and that will very likely happen with LN, people are able to conveniently do grocery shopping, pay bills with Bitcoin, etc. The difference between Bitcoin as investment tool and a currency tool won't endlessly remain as massive as it might be right now. Stability, or something close to that will do miracles. It takes time, I know, but everything takes time in the end.

At some point there will be a time where you have to pay a nasty, like really nasty premium in order to convince people to sell their coins to you for fiat.

carlisle1

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Quote from: scorpionso on April 19, 2018, 07:32:07 AM

actually it may good for btc but not for humanity. because when the economical crises has raised , after that big war will follow this. unfortunately it always had happenned in the back and will be in the future.
so without peaceful world richness is nothing. Undecided

nice point there,being rich wont save anyone in war..so i guess this will only strengthen the cryptocurrency but not the whole community..but eventhough i still betting for bitcoin and willing to buy much more if having another funds.

scorpionso

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actually it may good for btc but not for humanity. because when the economical crises has raised , after that big war will follow this. unfortunately it always had happenned in the back and will be in the future.
so without peaceful world richness is nothing. Undecided

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: countryfree on April 18, 2018, 11:00:49 AM

If there's no crash, it will be a miracle.

Let's think different a little.
If it will be a crash, I think that Bitcoin pricing will also drop a lot.
Basically the price of Bitcoin is how much people want to pay for it.
If there's a crash, people would sell Bitcoin and stocks to cover other needs.
We've seen already Bitcoin falling just before the stocks have fallen too. Many use Bitcoin in a similar way to stocks.

Maybe I'm wrong. I hope so. But.. what if I'm right?
I think that's better for everybody, for now, to not pray for a new crisis.

Naman1111

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The debt is moving upwards. As reported by IIF that’s a $16 trillion increase on debt levels at the end of 2016 and more than three times the size of the global economy. According to the IIF, $68 trillion belongs to non-financial companies and $63 trillion to governments. Ask this question who is this money owed to then the ans is 'We people'. So if the world government fail they print the money and pays to the lenders causing hyperrinflation. Bitcoin does not have elastic supply and thus cant be cheated. Bitcoin will be the most trusted currency in the coming years.

loyaeskiron

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Maybe by the used of bitcoin all debts from government would soon disappear, because I see the quality of bitcoin and their value as an instrument which used to solve all debts from governments.

BillCoin

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The debt keeps on moving upward, but it's still not going to prevent the US to keep printing money.
I beleive that soon enough there are going to be some steps to prevent this rapid grow in the debt rate, but it's only going to block a part of the increase rate and we are still going to suffer from the debt.
Only a massive scale crash can solve this debt problem , like we had in 2008, it was a crazy year for the financial system.

davis196

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Quote from: J Sykes on April 19, 2018, 06:01:57 AM

I think it is good yes. The more they print the more money there is that can go into BTC. I think btc is designed to suck up fiat and well this is happening! Lets see what happens but I can see bitcoin coming out kind in a hyper inflationary environment

No.It isn`t happening.The bitcoin price isn`t growing fast and there`s no huge army of newbies,who buy bitcoins for the first time in their lifes.The banksters will try to control the crypto markets and,if they can`t,they will just force the governments to mass ban all cryptocurrencies.
The world debt represents the desire of all governments and nations to pump their economic growth on steroids.It`s just money, that we borrow from our children. Sad

JerryJam

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Policy and cryptocurrency thing principle incompatible. The main feature of bitcoin is its decentralization. Bitcoin was created as a free currency. Bitcoin was created in 2008. And who remembers how many years there is a world debt? The difference between GDP and debt was but it had acceptable norms. Recently, debt is increasing and this gap is growing. And how can you have "spent" the money you converted to bitcoin?

J Sykes

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I think it is good yes. The more they print the more money there is that can go into BTC. I think btc is designed to suck up fiat and well this is happening! Lets see what happens but I can see bitcoin coming out kind in a hyper inflationary environment

amishmanish

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Two important parts of the article:

Quote

High levels of sovereign debt could make it difficult for governments to refinance when their debt reaches maturity, especially if financing conditions tighten, the IMF said. Large debts also impede the ability of nations to increase spending if their economies fall into recession, and may cause a drag on growth

If governments cannot refinance their debts, the burden eventually falls on public spending. On education, healthcare and infrastructure. This upward spiral of debt and downward spiral of "funds available for the tax-payer" are directly related.

Quote

The combination of last year’s tax cuts and increased government spending in a recent U.S. budget deal will benefit all income groups, the IMF said. However, those in the top quintile of incomes would benefit the most, followed by those in the bottom quintile, the fund said. As a result, the measures may contribute to the further “hollowing out” of middle-class incomes, it said.

Bitcoin supporters have been saying this for long enough. Creative firefighting measures made possible by an unlimited, inflationary currency will ultimately, always take their toll on the middle class.
How is this fair?? Why do we keep hearing arguments AGAINST a capped reserve currency with comparisons made to the gold standard and effectively no noise against this tiger of unlimited debt that the governments keep riding at the expense of middle classes. Any economists listening to this?

Ctn

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Quote from: countryfree on April 19, 2018, 05:00:26 AM

Yes, I agree there's no direct relation but it shows the real economy, the economy we're living in is built on debt. In several countries, debt is larger than GDP, more and more economists think that this is just too much, it will never be paid back...

On the other hand, BTC, with its limited supply, will only be stronger and stronger.

That could happen only if the government allows us to use it legally or the government itself acquire control over the BTC. The net effect would be splitting of the money in the form of bitcoin as we go on dumping billions of dollars into it. The more use of it the more is the redirected flow of the same into the BTC.

Off course this will increase huge demand of the same and decreased supply causing the market to pump heavily in zero time. But that is one of the reason why government doesnt allow the direct use of BTC or why they are trying to restrict it at many places. The national economy gets disturbed with it no matter what you say about it.

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

Yes, I agree there's no direct relation but it shows the real economy, the economy we're living in is built on debt. In several countries, debt is larger than GDP, more and more economists think that this is just too much, it will never be paid back...

On the other hand, BTC, with its limited supply, will only be stronger and stronger.

avikz

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164 trillion is huge pile of money. As per the latest data, the GDP of world is 133 trillion in terms of purchasing power parity. So the debt is increasing the GDP by almost 23%. That's a matter to worry for sure for global economics.

However, it certainly doesn't correlate with crypto market. Because Bitcoin's market cap is mainly dependent on the retail investors like us. The organized sector has not yet invested in bitcoin in a significant level. So I am sure that crypto market will remain as it is and will continue to grow.

Because this huge amount of debt is accumalted by the governments and organized financial sector. Even though banks and governments are going to recover that debt from normal people like us, any large impact on bitcoin market is not warranted at least now. Because this amount of debt was existing since last few years and within the same time, we have seen enormous growth in bitcoin market.

I believe, people will be more interested in bitcoin during an economic slowdown because bitcoin and crypto market is usually not influenced by the governments.

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-18/world-debt-hits-record-164-trillion-as-crisis-hangover-lingers

$164 trillion! That is an awfully big pile of money, but governments think it's not big enough. They keep on borrowing more every year. If there's no crash, it will be a miracle.

Pray God.
Or buy BTC!
Grin

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