Topic: World War III and BTC (Read 4054 times)

      My first thought when I heard about bitcoin is that the technology itself would elicit a global war as the current elite began to lose their grip on the world.

   I heard about BTC from RT, a Russian owned media outlet that broadcasts over satellite and tailors its shows towards certain demographics in the US. RT airs way more stories about bitcoin than US media outlets.

   That combined with China's airing of a special on bitcoin makes it seem like they are trying to use bitcoin to end the US dollars status as de facto world currency. Could be Russian and Chinese new rich are slowly and quietly selling all of their dollars for bitcoin to avoid driving the price too high before they can get in.

    Although the US corporate controlled propaganda machine convinces people that they should want to remain globally politically and economically dominant, more and more people are waking up all the time.

      Please people- REMEMBER THAT WE MAKE THIS! For example, fear of a shortage leads to people hording, which leads to a shortage, while there may be no actual reason for a shortage other than people's fear. Fear of war and poverty is the cause of war and poverty!


   So just keep calm and use bitcoin, no matter what you hear on the news. Apocalype means literally "revealing," and remember, "The apocalypse will not be televised!"
  

Yea, it's true different type of bombs will have different effects and there are many other factors to consider such as weather, location it hits I.E mountain, water, buildings, a valley, wind etc... And yea, some places will be radioactive for longer periods of times than others, and when I say "radioactive" I mean dangerous to humans kind of radioactivity, however, protective suits can allow you to walk outside in most radiations (If you waited a few days to weeks since the blasts) and you will be fine, and in many cases waiting weeks to months will be enough.
You can also take Iodine pills that protect you from Iodine radioactivity by filling the body's supply of Iodine with good Iodine and not allowing the radioactive Iodine come, since there's already (Non radioactive) Iodine there.
In any case, recovery from such a war would take 40 years or so and lets not forget the amount of dead people that needs to be buried and the diseases it causes... So, I'm not saying it's a smooth ride or anything, not at all, I said that almost 60 and maybe even 70 % of human population can and should be killed during such a war and the majority of deaths will be within the first day of the bombing and about doubling that amount in the coming 12 months (from radiation, diseases, hunger etc) but I don't think we are talking about 99 or even 90 or 80 % of the world's population dying.

Just think what it means to have 4-5 billion people dying in such a short period of time, where the rest of the living have very frightening lives and poor living conditions.. it is not going to be easy!

Excellnt reply notme,

Thanks for it

That is discussing half life in general.  The example given is for a half life of 7 hours, which is very short compared to what these weapons actually produce.   Different nuclear weapons will have different radioactive isotopes that are released, depending on the makeup of the fuel an other materials used.  Iodine-131, for example, is highly dangerous to human due to it being readily absorbed by thyroid.  It's half life is 8 days, so it would take you 7*8=56 days for your ten fold reduction.   Many others, such as radium-228 have a half life measured in years (5.75 years for radium-228).  So, in that case, you're looking at 40 years for your 10 fold reduction.  And radium is far from the longest lasting, although it is among the longest lasting that is produced by most nuclear weapons.  However, there is quite a variety of fuels and materials used to make various forms of these weapons.

So, you are right that 10s of 1000s of years is probably overkill, but we are not looking at insignificant time periods.

Already watching it.

Ask the average impressionable teenager about ancient Rome and the first thought they get is the romance, the beauty, the culture, without giving much thought to Romans cutting off the limbs off people and making them their pets, people smelling like shit or people shitting in the street, wiping with their hand etc.

I think some poor souls would even agree to time travel to ancient Rome given the opportunity.

Still got me curious..

Oh, then you haven't seen the movie. It's everything you just mentioned and more. You'll like it.

Pointing out to a Hollywood film to show what will happen to the world after a nuclear war goes off just seems incredibly silly, every idea you introduce for a film is heavily Hollywoodized, people don't seem to realize that.

There will be women selling their bodies for food, rape, murders, mass slaughter for food/money/weapons, the currency of choice would probably be small (ideally .22) caliber bullets, store owners that have food will probably try to keep everything to themselves and/or trade it in exchange for weapons and other valuable goods, the ruthlessness of that world is unimaginable to anyone in this thread.

Bitcoin will certainly be long gone, I doubt you would even have mail to purchase goods with it.

Question isn't so much about national military scale Internet, but the global one. Military networks are probably fine, but what about public networks run by multiple companies with contracts between these companies... Everything on Internet doesn't happen by magic...

If you want to have some fun with the concept of what will happen after a nuclear war watch "The Divide" and see how that makes you feel about the fate humanity after a war.

btc237ftw - I stand corrected.  It seems I spent my teens and 20s not only being subjected to awful fashion but also awful science.  We were assured that Mutually Assured Destruction meant that all of us would die.

To be honest, I find the bad science easier to forgive that the flared jeans and embroidered shirts. 

Clearly you are basing this on some science fiction film or story you saw or read...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fallout



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Relativedoseratesnormalisedforday1.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Relativedoseratesnormalisedforday10000.png

btc237ftw - the half-life of the radioactive poisons in the 10s of 1000s of years.  Its all very well saying that if you stay in your basement you won't die but ffs 10s of 1000s of years is a long time to spend in a basement.

Do you seriously thing that if your umpteen-great-grandchildren emerge in the year 32013, the first thing they will ask is "What about the bitcoin that was bought in 2013?"

Seriously?

The answer is simple: an area gets hurt, the internet (DATA) is still stored elsewhere, and when the hurt area revives it regains access to the data and/or copies it. it's like a game of "wackamole".
Also, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1e27wOIXqY


1. You are confusing Bio and Chemichal with Radio active. it isn't poison it's radioactivity, clearly you do not know what it is... Radioactivity disolves overtime, especially if it's on the air, so as long as you stay where radiation cannot enter, you can breath just fine.
2. An EMP will destroy cables as well... I was referring to underground and underwater cables connecting the world to the world wide web... Now, even though electricity will go on and off in some places... you can re-read it and see it will... "go on and off" meaning again, it's a wackamole game where whenever the power gets back on the data gets recopied and restored. At least the data that is needed for survival. That doesn't mean that all of the Websites will survive, as some websites are on simple host-machines and if those are destroyed, the website is gone... UNLESS, the owner has more copies of it, and simply recopies the website to functioning hosts whenever those become avaialbe.

The above link to a short (1:42 minutes long) video by Michio Kaku is good, you should see it... also, keep in mind it's just a very short explanation, there are many other - thorough ones out there.... research a little bit....

One more thing:
Clearly your family did not come from Germany after WWII and/or you never checked what it means to SURVIVE the war.... In times of war, security is #1 prioirty as it brings food, water and refuge. All these "unnecessary" things are gained using this one "thing" that only "wackos" will care about during such times...

Think about it, how is the internet resistant to war, nuclear or otherwise? Let alone the technical side, who is going to operate and maintain the machines and infrastructure? Or do technicians get to first dibs in these bunkers? And if they were so important and vital to the nation's interest and survival to maintain any infrastructure (let alone a specific one like the internet), why do they need to worry about wealth, money and value? I think they will get as much as possible. (Only a few wackos are going to care about their future wealth and ability after such a war)
 
Also, here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET#Misconceptions_of_design_goals


+1

Finally, I hear my self thinking outside my body by reading someone else's reply!:)

I was making the same point earlier - you are right.


I too, think the value of BTC, during the war will become greater as more and more people would need to secure their money and make sure they can use it while on the move, or at least have the potnetial of being used while on the move.

It's funny that people are suggesting that the internet would be broken by a WWIII type event (assuming nuclear) - because the internet was created by DARPA precisely to be resistant to this exact threat

It would take a heck of a lot of physical destruction to bring down the internet entirely - by that time no humans would be left to use it anyway.

As for Bitcoin, only one copy of the blockchain needs to persist.

As for what remains valuable in war, I remember reading a fascinating account of Hong Kong under Japanese occupation - a situation where preexisting currency was rendered useless. Gold and jewellery were used to store wealth. And Jews sewed gold into their clothes when escaping from the Nazis. Portable wealth is the key, and Bitcoin ticks that particular box quite nicely. You can keep it in your brain, let alone sewed into your clothes or dangling from your ears.

There isn't even need for any nukes for Internet to go down. Just if the contracts are lost or certain nations decide to go after cables it's done for a while... Very likely it will survive in some state inside nation and for single operators, but global connections are entirely different thing...

btc237ftw you are making 2 unrelated and totally wrong points.

1.  If a nuclear war takes place, using all the weapons that the superpowers have, hiding in basements isn't going to do much good as the environment will be poisoned.  Sooner or later you have to breathe and then you will take in poison and die.  As I said, I am no expert and I know the US and Russia are dismantling their arsenals.  But I hadn't known it reached the point that Mutually Assured Destruction no longer applied.  The danger of a nuclear war followed by a nuclear winter is that all life is wiped out.

2. An EMP takes out the electrical infrastructure, not the cables.  It doesn't matter if cables survive when the power stations are disabled and when the routers at the end of the cables are disabled.

If there were a nuclear war of the kind you are thinking, humanity would be reduced to extinction level and we might well be extinct.  There certainly wouldn't be the teams of engineers to run the Internet.  Bitcoin would be worthless.  So would the dollar.  Bullets and tinned tuna would be the new gold.

I never ever said there are not enough nukes (and Hydrogen bombs) to kill more than stated above, but the fact of the matter is:
1. Some people will keep themselves safe, for example if a "typical" atom bomb explodes half a mile from your house and you are inside a standard safe-room with 30 CM concrete walls, you won't be hit from the radiation until you leave the room.
2. The bombs will be aimed on specific locations, probably high population concentrations, but even so - the demographic of people includes many people living outside the dense areas.
3. There is a chance for some "safe havens" - maybe some countries won't be attacked at all.
4. Once it starts, there are large "safe rooms" the governments made for the population, and those get into those should be ok.

As for the EMP, that is a serious problem, mainly from an intentional emp bombs and not the side-effect caused by the nukes, even though a nuke can cause the emp, the effect is slim compared to an EMP directed to cause it in the right frequency and exploded in the right height.
Example for such a threat; North Korea launched a "Satellite" to orbit quite recently, and the USA threatened with sanctions if they will do so, they did not care about US threats and launched the Satellite. The US said that this should be looked at as a "long range missile experiment". Anyway, the point is, according to scientists, this Satellite, which was launched successfully btw, is not receiving or transmitting any data from or to earth... in other words they said it is not functioning as a satellite... There is some speculation as to "why would anyone launch a satellite which is not a satellite" into orbit.... and the main theory is that it is a weapon, capable of launching an emp over the US.
Now, why use an orbiting-device instead of launching a long-range missile if/when they wish to attack the US? simple; the oceans make the flight take time, and during this time the missile can be intercepted, now at the same time, it is also harder to launch such a missile because the launching movements will be seen and can be intercepted and also capabilities of launching a missile to such a long range (I.E NK to US) is hard to get.
So, a satalite, once it is above the US, can easily launch a missile that hits the sky of the us within seconds instead of minutes-of flight from UK to US.
Now, since the missile comes from above, there is a good chance it is an emp missile, as emp calculations show that the most effective way to dispatch the wave is by a balanced symmetric explosion in the sky above the area you want to hit.

much of the Internet's Infrastructure is under the sea and no one will waste bombs to go to the sea. However, power-surges will happen in many places since one of the "best" targets is the power supplies of different countries. Therefore power-surges can cause internet blackouts, but as Bitcoin is created and the way the Internet is created, once a country restores the power, the data moves on and it's like a "hit the hydra head" kind of game.
In fact, the internet was invented to allow the US preserve the information and survive a WWIII scenario, as the famous physic professor Michio Kaku stated in one of his lectures.

What a bunch of nonsense. But there is probably be a reason that the US military is going insane right now. Perhaps they want to expand the budget, now that some wars are ending. Perhaps that is why they are flying stealth bombers over North Korea, threatening Iran, etc. I'm glad the empire is running out of money.

I'm no expert as I was brought up to believe that there are enough nukes to kill all humans 10 times over and you say there is only enough to kill 30% of humans. But, afaik, there will be no Internet after nukes - electromagnetic pulses all over the world will frazzle the routers.