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Topic: Worlds Most Economical Bitcoin Mining Contracts! (Read 11959 times)

full member
Activity: 142
Merit: 100
Skyhigh, do you have nothing better to do than ramble on with crap? Seriously put your effort towards something useful!

Sure I have better things to do, but I'm multitasking. I'm not rambling crap because I'm 100% sure I'm spot on with what I'm saying. Majority understands it as well since it's not really rocket science. Funny how you call my ramblings crap, yet you removed part of the text  from your website, which I mentioned in my previous post..  quote "Some companies have invested over $500,000 USD in setting up a Large Bitcoin Server Farm in Germany".

By the way this all comes effortless to me, so when you need an objective opinion for your next business venture feel free to PM me.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
bitminers, you should probably concentrate more on a rebuttal to skyhigh, otherwise it just makes you look stupid because you can't mathematically demonstrate why it would make sense to a potential customer (that's not brain dead in the math dept) to buy a contract from you instead of just buying BTC outright with the money they are spending for a contract.
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
Skyhigh, do you have nothing better to do than ramble on with crap? Seriously put your effort towards something useful!
full member
Activity: 142
Merit: 100
David aka djgtr, I'm sure there are people who contacted you and even bought contracts from you. I'm also sure most of them don't know or understand the math behind it, but that's OK. This kind of service is only temporary,  simply because it makes no sense and math behind it doesn't work. When people are more informed on the subject services like yours will get less and less business.

To answer your questions :

--------------------------------
1. A lot of people in Australia and around the world for that matter do not have reliable broadband connections but wish to get involved with bitcoin mining, besides a mining contract what option do they have?
Instead of sending you $1200 US to buy a contract for 3 months, they could BUY bitcoins and get 50% more for the same amount of money.

2. A lot of people are not tech savvy and have never built a computer in their life nor do they want to, why should they miss out on the opportunity to mine? Are they going to go down to (insert local retailer here) and buy an off the shelf mining rig? Most salesmen have never heard of bitcoin and will try to sell the customer a HP or DELL to mine with.
Why bother building anything? Instead of sending you $1200 US to buy a contract for 3 months, they could BUY bitcoins and get 50% more for the same amount of money.

3. A lot of people actually have jobs that take up a large portion of their life, when they are at home they don't want to be monitoring their miners or watching bitcoin value on Mt Gox.
They don't have to monitor anything. Instead of sending you $1200 US to buy a contract for 3 months, they could BUY bitcoins and get 50% more for the same amount of money.

4. Believe it or not a lot of places around the world pay very high prices for electricity or their partner/parents wont let them run miners 24/7.
They don't have to pay any electricity. Instead of sending you $1200 US to buy a contract for 3 months, they could BUY bitcoins and get 50% more for the same amount of money.


The fact is that since some people are offering this services, there is always some people that lack the knowledge on the subject and falls for it. That's OK. We can't get to everyone and explain to them that .. Instead of sending you $1200 US to buy a contract for 3 months, they could BUY bitcoins and get 50% more for the same amount of money.


This has NOTHING to do with being tech savvy, have access to cheap computer parts, pay a fortune for electricity, value your time or whatever else comes to your mind, simply because the end product they get from buying a contract from you are bitcoins. Instead of sending you $1200 US to buy a contract for 3 months, they could BUY bitcoins and get 50% more for the same amount of money.


David / djgtr.. talk to your partner about changing/removing some text on your site. Let me quote it "Some companies have invested over $500,000 USD in setting up a Large Bitcoin Server Farm in Germany".
You don't want to get into unnecessary possible legal issues from someone buying a contract from you and later finding out you guys lied.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
Now the last poster's pricing structure makes a bit more sense.  Call it $300 a month to get a gigahash * 8 months.  $2400.  Assuming difficulty does not go up from 1.3M (and it will, in just a few more days) you'd be getting 185 bit coins for that $2400. 

That's a discount of about $400 from current market price -- a daring person might take the bet of difficulty falling while $ value of BTC staying constant or increasing over those 8 months.

A less daring person would simply buy a ~$1000 worth of parts to produce the same 1Ghash, budget $600 power over the same time frame, buy $300 worth of beer and take the last $500 and bet it on poker games.  And at the end of the 8 months sell the hardware and buy another $500 worth of beer.

The OP's pricing structure, however, is just  Shocked
full member
Activity: 236
Merit: 100
I hate to jump into a cmpetitors thread, but I'm not sure that your contracts are the 'Worlds Most Economical' for example

I offer 200 Mh contracts for between $75 and $60 USD depending on lengeth, from 2 to 8 months. Yours are $90 per month.

I offer 400 Mh contracts for $135 to $ 112.50 per month, again depending on length, between 2 and 8 months. Yours are $170 per month. I also offer a 2 month minimum compared to your 3 so that the customer is out less money up front.

I know that several other contracts are available for less also, just sayin'.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10

Hi

I am a partner in www.bitcoinminingrigs.com.au and I feel a lot of the people in this thread are only looking at things from their own point of view instead of looking from the point of view of the people that these contracts are aimed at.

1. A lot of people in Australia and around the world for that matter do not have reliable broadband connections but wish to get involved with bitcoin mining, besides a mining contract what option do they have?

2. A lot of people are not tech savvy and have never built a computer in their life nor do they want to, why should they miss out on the opportunity to mine? Are they going to go down to (insert local retailer here) and buy an off the shelf mining rig? Most salesmen have never heard of bitcoin and will try to sell the customer a HP or DELL to mine with.

3. A lot of people actually have jobs that take up a large portion of their life, when they are at home they don't want to be monitoring their miners or watching bitcoin value on Mt Gox.

4. Believe it or not a lot of places around the world pay very high prices for electricity or their partner/parents wont let them run miners 24/7.

So if your tech savvy, have access to cheap computer parts, don't pay a fortune for electricity and don't value your time highly then a mining contract is probably not for you. For the rest of the world (which is a much larger percentage than fits into the previous categories) we offer a service that is in fairly high demand.

In two days we have had over 30 inquiries into mining contracts and have signed 7 contracts in the 1000mhash to 6000mhash range. We explain to all of our potential customers difficulty increases, volatility of bitcoin value, I even point them at this thread to read all your opinions of mining contracts. And guess what.... they still want to sign.

So please continue with all your calculations and predictions it just gives my clients something to read and help them make up their mind on whether to purchase a contract or not. But just remember to look from other peoples point of view that maybe in a different position to yourself. After  all we must be doing something right... business is booming!

Thanks
David

  



Are we supposed to take your word for it that you have signed contracts? I wouldn't be surprised if some people made such a bad decision, but I also don't see any reason why we should believe it just because you say it.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
Hi

I am a partner in www.bitcoinminingrigs.com.au and I feel a lot of the people in this thread are only looking at things from their own point of view instead of looking from the point of view of the people that these contracts are aimed at.

1. A lot of people in Australia and around the world for that matter do not have reliable broadband connections but wish to get involved with bitcoin mining, besides a mining contract what option do they have?

2. A lot of people are not tech savvy and have never built a computer in their life nor do they want to, why should they miss out on the opportunity to mine? Are they going to go down to (insert local retailer here) and buy an off the shelf mining rig? Most salesmen have never heard of bitcoin and will try to sell the customer a HP or DELL to mine with.

3. A lot of people actually have jobs that take up a large portion of their life, when they are at home they don't want to be monitoring their miners or watching bitcoin value on Mt Gox.

4. Believe it or not a lot of places around the world pay very high prices for electricity or their partner/parents wont let them run miners 24/7.

So if your tech savvy, have access to cheap computer parts, don't pay a fortune for electricity and don't value your time highly then a mining contract is probably not for you. For the rest of the world (which is a much larger percentage than fits into the previous categories) we offer a service that is in fairly high demand.

In two days we have had over 30 inquiries into mining contracts and have signed 7 contracts in the 1000mhash to 6000mhash range. We explain to all of our potential customers difficulty increases, volatility of bitcoin value, I even point them at this thread to read all your opinions of mining contracts. And guess what.... they still want to sign.

So please continue with all your calculations and predictions it just gives my clients something to read and help them make up their mind on whether to purchase a contract or not. But just remember to look from other peoples point of view that maybe in a different position to yourself. After  all we must be doing something right... business is booming!

Thanks
David

 

None of your arguments are relevant because you ignore the simple fact that it is cheaper and wiser for someone to simply buy BTC now. Under realistic circumstances, your mining operation will make them a lot less than 75BTC over 3 months. But at the current exchange rate it would cost them 80BTC to buy the three month contract. So they are set up to lose money right away. You and the OP have countered this by saying "what if the BTC value rises to $50?!". Well true, if the value rose the custom wouldn't lose money from buying your contract. But if the value rose to $50 the customer would also still be better off buying the BTC up front instead of buying the contract.

You make the rookie mistake of trying to convince people of a shitty deal on a public forum. You will not succeed in doing that because people will point out the flaws in your shitty deal and no one will want to partake. If you can show some hard #'s that prove why your offer is worth anyone's money, then all the naysayers in this thread would leave it alone. So far you haven't offered any valid argument as to why this is better than buying BTC up front.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
It's a gamble alright but definitely not the smartest option that is available.  But I guess in the end, that's the world - people have options and this is one of them.  The only thing that is a bit of a fallacy is that he stated he accepts bitcoins for this service.  One would need to pay more bitcoins than they would receive.   There is no gamble in that but pure deception.

Ha! You are right, I didn't even notice that. I didn't think to check that stat because who would be dumb enough to charge you 80BTC for a contract that UNDER THE MOST OPTIMISTIC SCENARIO, COULD AT MOST MAKE YOU BACK 75BTC? More likely a lot less than that though.

Man the scammers on this board are out of control. I like to shit on their parade because I hate crooks and thieves and dishonest people.
sr. member
Activity: 951
Merit: 250
Hi

I am a partner in www.bitcoinminingrigs.com.au and I feel a lot of the people in this thread are only looking at things from their own point of view instead of looking from the point of view of the people that these contracts are aimed at.

1. A lot of people in Australia and around the world for that matter do not have reliable broadband connections but wish to get involved with bitcoin mining, besides a mining contract what option do they have?

2. A lot of people are not tech savvy and have never built a computer in their life nor do they want to, why should they miss out on the opportunity to mine? Are they going to go down to (insert local retailer here) and buy an off the shelf mining rig? Most salesmen have never heard of bitcoin and will try to sell the customer a HP or DELL to mine with.

3. A lot of people actually have jobs that take up a large portion of their life, when they are at home they don't want to be monitoring their miners or watching bitcoin value on Mt Gox.

4. Believe it or not a lot of places around the world pay very high prices for electricity or their partner/parents wont let them run miners 24/7.

So if your tech savvy, have access to cheap computer parts, don't pay a fortune for electricity and don't value your time highly then a mining contract is probably not for you. For the rest of the world (which is a much larger percentage than fits into the previous categories) we offer a service that is in fairly high demand.

In two days we have had over 30 inquiries into mining contracts and have signed 7 contracts in the 1000mhash to 6000mhash range. We explain to all of our potential customers difficulty increases, volatility of bitcoin value, I even point them at this thread to read all your opinions of mining contracts. And guess what.... they still want to sign.

So please continue with all your calculations and predictions it just gives my clients something to read and help them make up their mind on whether to purchase a contract or not. But just remember to look from other peoples point of view that maybe in a different position to yourself. After  all we must be doing something right... business is booming!

Thanks
David

 
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
It's a gamble alright but definitely not the smartest option that is available.  But I guess in the end, that's the world - people have options and this is one of them.  The only thing that is a bit of a fallacy is that he stated he accepts bitcoins for this service.  One would need to pay more bitcoins than they would receive.   There is no gamble in that but pure deception.
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1002
Waves | 3PHMaGNeTJfqFfD4xuctgKdoxLX188QM8na
really nice read, skyhigh.

but you can cut it even shorter:

would you trust this guy?


You can't see if someone can be trusted, based on a picture...
I think Vladimir is a real Bitcoin fan and also a real businessman.

I trust him but I also trust my calculator. And if my calculator shows negative numbers, I say "no way"...
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10

Quote
Some companies have invested over $500,000 USD in setting up their own managed mining rigs to mine Bitcoins, it is an extremely fast paced growing industry.

What's the source of this?

From me, of course. I have over 500k of Bitcoin mining equipment and I can afford to give away 1,000 Bitcoins to a random person a day!  Cool

What's with the pictures in your sig? Who's face is that?
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
Well, anybody selling mining contract, do not have any interest in BTC. It is clear.

I guess I don't understand mining contract sellers.  If someone could rent a rig from them, and make money, why wouldn't the contract seller just mine for himself?

So, the seller must think that BTC is going to fall enough in value that it's better to rent time than mine for himself. So, therefore, he is selling what he thinks are false hopes.

Unless he has 1/2 his rigs mining for himself, and 1/2 rented - then he's got both bases covered.  That's the only thing that makes sense to me.

You are mostly correct about mining contract sellers. They are basically "short" on bitcoin mining (AKA, placing a bet that bitcoin mining will not be profitable). There's technically nothing wrong with shorting. But I think a lot of people might not be smart enough to realize that is what's taking place, and I feel sorry for them. THere is the claim that it might actually become profitable (if difficulty either stays the same, or if the exchange rate goes up), but I don't see that happening any timein the near future. And I serious question if these leech types who sell the contracts would not withdraw from the contracts if mining actually became more profitable.

You then have to also factor in what happens if the operation goes belly up? What happens to the hardware? If it gets sold, who gets the profit from the hardware? In contracts where you are just renting the mining power it makes even less sense to purchase the mining contract because not only are you very likely to lose money, but you will also have no hardware to sell to cut your losses after the 3 months are up.
sr. member
Activity: 742
Merit: 250
really nice read, skyhigh.

but you can cut it even shorter:

would you trust this guy?
full member
Activity: 142
Merit: 100
KarlSpaat, you are right on everything, but you missing the point here. You don't have to mine to get bitcoins. If you rent a rig .. you get bitcoins as a final product. Since Vladimir called me dumb, I will use his service as an example.

He charges $700 per month for a minimum of 4 months or a total of $2800 to rent 1 Gh.  If a person wants to rent this, he or she needs to wire him $2800 upfront. In return Vladimir will send daily BTC transfers in amount of statistical expectation of daily bitcoin generation. At the current difficulty of 1379223 this comes out to 0.73 BTC per day until the difficulty re-targets.

4 months x 30 days == 120 days  EVEN at the same difficulty if he sends you 0.73 BTC every day you will receive 87.6 BTC  for the $2800 you wired him. Reality is difficulty will be higher by the time your contract with him runs out, but that's completely beside the point here.

The day that you buy his contract for $2800  you could also buy BTC on the exchange for $2800.  The end result is same - BITCOINS. If you would buy at today's price you would get 180 BTC, while Vladimir will send you 87.6 BTC if the difficulty would stay the same.

This has nothing to do with hardware, electricity, uptime, or whatever else comes to your mind. Whoever sends him the cash to rent a rig, that same person could buy BTC on the exchange that same day.

Vladimir explained in one sentence in his thread :   You buy a contract, you get daily BTC transfers in amount of statistical expectation of daily bitcoin generation for contracted computational power during lifetime of the contract.

If a person buy a contract from these services, they don't even have to actually mine any coins. They COULD buy $2800 worth of BTC on the day you wire them cash. Right now he would get 180 BTC .. Everyday while difficulty at 1379223 he sends you 0.73 BTC to your address. When difficulty will re-target next week he would calculate what he needs to send you daily again. Even if we keep difficulty at 1379223 for the rest of the contract time period of 120 days he would only send you 87.6 BTC  while he COULD buy 180 BTC on the day you wired him cash for his contract.


Isn't this fantastic ?! But then again, I'm the dumb one.
newbie
Activity: 47
Merit: 0
I run a mining farm for myself and when im reading about mining contracts, i have a question.

Why should I prefer mining contracts instead of my own rig?

A contract should give me Bitcoins cheaper than my own rig. With cheaper i mean the sum of productions costs (energy, space, cooling, hardware price decline, prices for repairing hardware), time to keep the rig running (build computers, install operating system, update drivers and miners, check status of miners, fix problems), the real uptime of the miners and the risk of running own hardware.
Im very experienced and can calculate the real production cost of a bitcoin accurately.

By the way i'd like to get PMs, if I forgot something in this list.


So which type of this costs are cheaper if a company builds up a rig and run it? If they aren't cheaper there is no reason of buying a contract.


Some of these costs are obvious, like hardware, energy, uptime) and others depend on how much u pay for your own worktime)

  • A company gets better hardware prices, if they buy large numbers. But in order to get these prices, they should buy at least hardware for 20k €. I worked for a small E-Shop and i know that companies just get good hardware prices, if they buy large amounts or often. Otherwise the casual shops are cheaper.
  • Energy and space is cheaper for companies, at a specific size, you can't run a rig in your own house anymore
  • Cooling can be simple, if you have a room and just open all windows, so you don't need to run a cooling machine. Large Rigs in production halls can benefit from open windows, too Wink
  • Hardware price decline is the same for companies as for me
  • The larger the rig, the better is the uptime. One damaged part influence Hashrate relatively less in large rigs, and having some spare parts are relative cheaper.
  • Companies have more experience in setting up and running rigs than the casual user, so the time needed to build a miner and keep it up is less
  • The risk for companies is higher, because they need to pay space rental, and even if they shut down a rig, they have to pay loans and rental for at least a month. This limits running mining farms to small companies without employees, or their farm has to be real large

If i put this all together, i cant imagine, that a large company would setup a farm. Just some nerds who doesnt need employees can do this without too much risk. A production hall is not that expensive so the risk is limited to less than 1000€.

So finally there are some good reasons why a contract can be cheaper than your own rig. Better Uptime, less manhours to setup and keep it running. No risk of loosing hardware or hardware price declines. They have less energy and maybe slightly less hardware costs. But the manhours are more expensive, a company wants to get at least 6% revenue of their investment and has a higher risk so they need to get higher reserve.

So beginners can rent hashpower because they arent experienced enough to build their own rig. But for people with enough experience, the only advantage is less risk, slightly better energy and hardware costs. People who are too lazy to run a rig should just buy bitcoins...


But if you make a contract more risky by paying 3 month at least, renting becomes useless.



PS: I would really like to get response, if i forgot some points in this list, or if you think im wrong in some points.
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1002
Waves | 3PHMaGNeTJfqFfD4xuctgKdoxLX188QM8na
You, Vladimir and whoever else is offering this kind of service, needs to get more creative and come up with something that makes sense. Or else you just throwing a bad light on the whole bitcoin community, because you are after dumb people who can't add 1+1 on their own while in the meantime you insulting everyone else with stupid excuses that your service is somehow viable. Everyone except rare few knows it doesn't make any sense what so ever, but they just don't bother telling you that 1232 times.

The only dumb person here is you, m8. It seems you have stuck in a 3 dimensional space-time continuum, while the rest of the world is in 4 dimensional one. Wake up.



Can you make the calculations for me, what's the advantage of a mining contract compared to buying BTC or mining at home.
full member
Activity: 142
Merit: 100
Vladimir, if I was the dumb here, I'd be contacting you or OP for the fine service you two provide. I'll pass and let the smarts from the 4 dimensional space contact you for your nice deals.

Enjoy your tea & biscuits
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1001
-
You, Vladimir and whoever else is offering this kind of service, needs to get more creative and come up with something that makes sense. Or else you just throwing a bad light on the whole bitcoin community, because you are after dumb people who can't add 1+1 on their own while in the meantime you insulting everyone else with stupid excuses that your service is somehow viable. Everyone except rare few knows it doesn't make any sense what so ever, but they just don't bother telling you that 1232 times.

The only dumb person here is you, m8. It seems you have stuck in a 3 dimensional space-time continuum, while the rest of the world is in 4 dimensional one. Wake up.

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