Would this be wise? My college life (no I DO NOT LIVE IN A DORM)

allinvain

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Quote from: bitjet on May 11, 2011, 10:39:25 AM

Quote from: allinvain on May 10, 2011, 07:26:20 PM

Once again there is no such thing as a free lunch...unless you live in your parent's basement..then you're living like a king..lol mine away!

No but seriously yeah I bet most smart landlords do include a small clause or disclaimer that will prevent you from consuming the Gigawatts of electricity your dream mining farm would require. So I'm afraid with all things you gotta pay if you wanna play. Thankfully mining is still profitable - for some people - so the electricity costs can be covered and justified.

If its an apartment building without meters for each unit, it would be sorta hard to tell who's using all the electricity. I guess you could just start shutting down breakers and see when the meter slows down a bunch.

Can they not check the load on the circuits? I dunno, I'm no expert on this.

bitjet

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Quote from: allinvain on May 10, 2011, 07:26:20 PM

Once again there is no such thing as a free lunch...unless you live in your parent's basement..then you're living like a king..lol mine away!

No but seriously yeah I bet most smart landlords do include a small clause or disclaimer that will prevent you from consuming the Gigawatts of electricity your dream mining farm would require. So I'm afraid with all things you gotta pay if you wanna play. Thankfully mining is still profitable - for some people - so the electricity costs can be covered and justified.

If its an apartment building without meters for each unit, it would be sorta hard to tell who's using all the electricity. I guess you could just start shutting down breakers and see when the meter slows down a bunch.

allinvain

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Once again there is no such thing as a free lunch...unless you live in your parent's basement..then you're living like a king..lol mine away!

No but seriously yeah I bet most smart landlords do include a small clause or disclaimer that will prevent you from consuming the Gigawatts of electricity your dream mining farm would require. So I'm afraid with all things you gotta pay if you wanna play. Thankfully mining is still profitable - for some people - so the electricity costs can be covered and justified.

keybaud

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Any contract that has a free element usually has an additional 'fair use' statement in the small print. My guess is that free electricity would not include running internet or mining services 24/7 as fair use and you'd get the bill enforced legally if you refused to pay, as you'd be in breach of contract.

Littleshop

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Quote from: allinvain on May 10, 2011, 05:07:33 AM

Quote from: Sukrim on May 10, 2011, 04:50:46 AM

At these prices, I don't feel sorry for a landlord! Shocked

I live nicely for half the price in western Europe!

Yep, real estate is way overpriced in the Toronto (aka GTA) area and as a result I'd say so are rents. If that landlord has the property already paid off (ie no mortgage) then that $800 is pure profit (minus expenses and other misc items) so our psknives's electricity usage may go unnoticed or maybe the landlord won't care all that much - at least not until the power bill approached the the multiple hundred dollar mark lol

Property tax is a huge expense in some areas. I bet that is why landlords costs (and therefore rents) are so high.

allinvain

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Quote from: njloof on May 10, 2011, 09:16:35 AM

I can't wait for the first time the cops bust a place because they're SURE it's a grow house -- drawing lots and lots of power, heat signature of the place is through the roof -- and they come slamming through the door looking for all the pot, and all they find is a bunch of computers humming away

hahahaha...yeah that would be hilarious - not for the person getting busted though Tongue

njloof

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I can't wait for the first time the cops bust a place because they're SURE it's a grow house -- drawing lots and lots of power, heat signature of the place is through the roof -- and they come slamming through the door looking for all the pot, and all they find is a bunch of computers humming away

allinvain

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Quote from: Sukrim on May 10, 2011, 04:50:46 AM

At these prices, I don't feel sorry for a landlord! Shocked

I live nicely for half the price in western Europe!

Yep, real estate is way overpriced in the Toronto (aka GTA) area and as a result I'd say so are rents. If that landlord has the property already paid off (ie no mortgage) then that $800 is pure profit (minus expenses and other misc items) so our psknives's electricity usage may go unnoticed or maybe the landlord won't care all that much - at least not until the power bill approached the the multiple hundred dollar mark lol

I dunno, this is all pure speculation. Psknives if you have the desire to do this go for it, don't let anyone here tell you what to do even if ultimately you may end up with an unprofitable operation - at least this way you've done it your way and you learned by your own mistakes and noone can take the blame for your actions Wink

Sukrim

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At these prices, I don't feel sorry for a landlord! Shocked

I live nicely for half the price in western Europe!

allinvain

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Quote from: psknives on May 10, 2011, 02:00:53 AM

Quote from: gmaxwell on May 09, 2011, 07:30:40 PM

Quote from: MoonShadow on May 09, 2011, 01:04:26 PM

You can't know who it's profitable for, or it isn't. Mining was never profitable for me, and in general I don't, but I can envision conditions that I would mine for short terms. There are many users who mine in their winter months because the cost of electric is either the main method of heat, and therefore running a miner is just a possible bonus to paying the heat bill; or they functionally have near free electric.

If heating is a non-trivial part of your electric expenses then you should be using gas (much power cost per therm than electric heating), and/or an electric heat pump (greater than 100% "efficiency").

Because of this, even with heating as a consideration mining will never be free, unless you can make some sucker pay for it for you.

Generally in GTA, Ontario, Canada you can find apartments around $800 to $1400 (depending on size and rooms) with free utilities (some not all).

True (I'm from Ontario too) but do you really think that free utilities means unlimited utilities. I'm sure someone would notice if you start sucking 10's of kilowatt hours.

I thought about this a few weeks back and I think what may work is if you have a lot of friends who rent places with so called "free utilities" you may be able to convince them to allow you to place one of your mining rigs at their place (reward them somehow for this). Spread these mining rigs across several apartments and you'd have a nice amount of hashing power without paying for electricity - ie free bitcoins. The moral downside is that the landlord is going to end up footing the bill :p lol

psknives

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Quote from: gmaxwell on May 09, 2011, 07:30:40 PM

Quote from: MoonShadow on May 09, 2011, 01:04:26 PM

You can't know who it's profitable for, or it isn't. Mining was never profitable for me, and in general I don't, but I can envision conditions that I would mine for short terms. There are many users who mine in their winter months because the cost of electric is either the main method of heat, and therefore running a miner is just a possible bonus to paying the heat bill; or they functionally have near free electric.

If heating is a non-trivial part of your electric expenses then you should be using gas (much power cost per therm than electric heating), and/or an electric heat pump (greater than 100% "efficiency").

Because of this, even with heating as a consideration mining will never be free, unless you can make some sucker pay for it for you.

Generally in GTA, Ontario, Canada you can find apartments around $800 to $1400 (depending on size and rooms) with free utilities (some not all).

gmaxwell

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Quote from: MoonShadow on May 09, 2011, 01:04:26 PM

You can't know who it's profitable for, or it isn't. Mining was never profitable for me, and in general I don't, but I can envision conditions that I would mine for short terms. There are many users who mine in their winter months because the cost of electric is either the main method of heat, and therefore running a miner is just a possible bonus to paying the heat bill; or they functionally have near free electric.

If heating is a non-trivial part of your electric expenses then you should be using gas (much power cost per therm than electric heating), and/or an electric heat pump (greater than 100% "efficiency").

Because of this, even with heating as a consideration mining will never be free, unless you can make some sucker pay for it for you.

MoonShadow

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Quote from: gmaxwell on May 09, 2011, 09:45:22 AM

Quote from: JJG on May 09, 2011, 09:03:20 AM

In other words: If you can do something on a shoestring budget in your basement without actually even working for it, then so can almost every other hardware enthusiast on the internet. And as they discover bitcoin mining, they certainly will try. And this will rapidly drive the absolute profitability in to the ground.

Moreover... they'll make the same kind of crap analysis we've seen from many people here (difficulty increasing linearly 2% per month‽‽ How can you read enough to know about difficulty an then completely miss its growth like that?) and they'll keep piling into it even when it's _not_ profitable for them.

You can't know who it's profitable for, or it isn't. Mining was never profitable for me, and in general I don't, but I can envision conditions that I would mine for short terms. There are many users who mine in their winter months because the cost of electric is either the main method of heat, and therefore running a miner is just a possible bonus to paying the heat bill; or they functionally have near free electric.

Fiyasko

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Okey Dokey Lokey

Quote from: vuce on May 09, 2011, 06:57:18 AM

1.8 btc per day? This sounds a bit low for a 5870.

You're correct, it will not go from 1.8 to 1.4 in a year. It will go from 1.8 to 1.08 in 10 hours.

Anyway, I think you would lose a lot of money doing this.

(Vuce)"SHHHHHiiiNNNNNNNKUUUUUUUUUU HHHHaDOOOOOOOOUKEEEENNNNNNNNN"
(Jack)"SHYORUKEN!!!!!!"
(announcer) "KAY OH!!!!!"

gmaxwell

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Quote from: JJG on May 09, 2011, 09:03:20 AM

In other words: If you can do something on a shoestring budget in your basement without actually even working for it, then so can almost every other hardware enthusiast on the internet. And as they discover bitcoin mining, they certainly will try. And this will rapidly drive the absolute profitability in to the ground.

Moreover... they'll make the same kind of crap analysis we've seen from many people here (difficulty increasing linearly 2% per month‽‽ How can you read enough to know about difficulty an then completely miss its growth like that?) and they'll keep piling into it even when it's _not_ profitable for them.

Sukrim

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Difficulty increases (as the hashrate increases) by 2% per DAY, not per month currently.

JJG

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As mentioned before, your difficulty estimates are way, way off. Difficulty will jump over 42% in a matter of hours, and that's after only ~10 days at the current difficulty.

Your note suggests that you don't have difficulty rising very quickly because you believe it will be offset by purchases of faster cards. You're being a bit optimistic here, as the current 'GPU to have' for the bitcoin game came out in 2009.

But the absolute biggest indication that your model isn't realistic should be this: The barrier to entry for mining bitcoin is low relative to other investments or business ventures. You don't have to get a business license, find investors, etc. You just take a computer, load a generic program, and hit go. This doesn't take special knowledge, other than the knowledge that bitcoin mining exists.

In other words: If you can do something on a shoestring budget in your basement without actually even working for it, then so can almost every other hardware enthusiast on the internet. And as they discover bitcoin mining, they certainly will try. And this will rapidly drive the absolute profitability in to the ground.

keybaud

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Also, don't forget to take humidity into account, if you're going to put them into a cold room. A PC full of condensation won't help your MH/s.

eof

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Quote from: psknives on May 09, 2011, 07:27:19 AM

I expect some difficulty. But nothing too radical.

The point is that difficulty will be jumping more in the next jump, happening *today* than you predict it will in a year.

psknives

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Quote from: m4rkiz on May 09, 2011, 06:57:57 AM

keep in mind that price may or may not rise with difficulty increases, no one can predict either price of btc or difficulty at the end of this year, so you can't assume 1.8 daily or fixed 3.75 price

and unless you have some proper space to keep those pcs that would be a problem, noise for one, and count every 5870 as 0.3kWh heater... with 10 of them it is no different than having 3kWh heater running 24/7...

edit:

Quote

but I highly doubt Ill go from 1.8 btc to 1.4 btc in 1 year with the same hash cracking rates.

you can expect 45% increase in difficulty just today, who knows what will happen in 2 weeks not to mention 2 months or more

Don't worry about storage too much, and I expect some difficulty. But nothing too radical.

Topic: Would this be wise? My college life (no I DO NOT LIVE IN A DORM) (Read 3584 times)