would you accept stolen bitcoins? - page 3.

LostDutchman

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on January 27, 2014, 08:05:51 PM

Quote from: LostDutchman on January 27, 2014, 07:37:12 PM

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on January 27, 2014, 07:25:06 PM

The only truly "stolen" coins are those that are hacked or physically extorted from the owner.

90% of what people consider 'stolen' coins either fall under the category of 'defaults', which while in some cases the debts may have been taken on in a malicious manner, is almost entirely impossible to distinguish from legitimate bankruptcies, which isn't truly theft, so I think it's best to treat all defaults as something separate from true theft.

So tell us all just how that can be done without negatively affecting the rights of all!

SPEAK!

The Dutchman is turned to hear!

My $.02.

Wink

I never said it could be done. I just am stating that there is a big difference between hacked / extorted coins and coins that one person vaguely states were 'stolen' from them by a gambling site, investment site, etc...

OK.

How do you tell the difference?

Wink

theonewhowaskazu

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: LostDutchman on January 27, 2014, 07:37:12 PM

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on January 27, 2014, 07:25:06 PM

The only truly "stolen" coins are those that are hacked or physically extorted from the owner.

90% of what people consider 'stolen' coins either fall under the category of 'defaults', which while in some cases the debts may have been taken on in a malicious manner, is almost entirely impossible to distinguish from legitimate bankruptcies, which isn't truly theft, so I think it's best to treat all defaults as something separate from true theft.

So tell us all just how that can be done without negatively affecting the rights of all!

SPEAK!

The Dutchman is turned to hear!

My $.02.

Wink

I never said it could be done. I just am stating that there is a big difference between hacked / extorted coins and coins that one person vaguely states were 'stolen' from them by a gambling site, investment site, etc...

LostDutchman

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on January 27, 2014, 07:25:06 PM

The only truly "stolen" coins are those that are hacked or physically extorted from the owner.

90% of what people consider 'stolen' coins either fall under the category of 'defaults', which while in some cases the debts may have been taken on in a malicious manner, is almost entirely impossible to distinguish from legitimate bankruptcies, which isn't truly theft, so I think it's best to treat all defaults as something separate from true theft.

So tell us all just how that can be done without negatively affecting the rights of all!

SPEAK!

The Dutchman is turned to hear!

My $.02.

Wink

theonewhowaskazu

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

The only truly "stolen" coins are those that are hacked or physically extorted from the owner.

90% of what people consider 'stolen' coins either fall under the category of 'defaults', which while in some cases the debts may have been taken on in a malicious manner, is almost entirely impossible to distinguish from legitimate bankruptcies, which isn't truly theft, so I think it's best to treat all defaults as something separate from true theft.

TheButterZone

legendary

Activity: 3038

Merit: 1032

RIP Mommy

My response would be to exit the installer and securely delete it from my drive, before stolen BTC are immediately sent to addresses generated by the application in order to have me immediately prosecuted for receiving proceeds of crime.

LostDutchman

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: lerelerele on January 27, 2014, 08:19:46 AM

If a wallet asks you when you install it, "would you accept stolen bitcoins?" what will be your response?

If someone create a web to inform against stolen bitcoins gaving proofs and it gave you a wallet for money back marked and acepted stolen btc´s

I think Is time to make something with thieves.

OK, we I will now make something with thieves!

ANNOUNCING!

(Drumroll!)

The Lost Dutchman Bitcoin Rating System!

(Rimshot!)

Class One Bitcoins:

Nice clean all dressed up in Easter finery Bitcoins!

These Bitcoins get to sit and stay!

Class Two Bitcoins:

Maybe requiring re-training; "Sit", "All the way down!", "Kisses!", "Speak!" and "Shake!"

After proper REHABILITATION ( A la Cesar Milan!) these Bitcoins may be again used by normal users.

Class Three Bitcoins:

Not good, used in crimes, may carry cooties.

BAD DOG!
NO BISCUIT!

My $.02.

Wink

ChronosTrigger

newbie

Activity: 12

Merit: 0

I dont think there's such a thing as "stolen" BTC

teukon

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1011

Yes, I'd make sure my client was configured to ignore and and all blacklists.

If I personally suspect that the coins are the proceeds of crime then I would only willingly accept them if the amount was sufficient to compensate my risk.

msc

sr. member

Activity: 284

Merit: 250

Quote from: fitbobcat on January 27, 2014, 01:31:40 PM

There is no way to tell if there stolen. Think of this, A person robs a bank... He then goes to a store and buys a computer. The next customer got change (part of the stolen money). The customer was legit and knew nothing about it. So should they not accept the customers bitcoins.

Right - the computer sale is legitimate, regardless of where the money came from.

Quote

Would you accept a wad of cash from someone, knowing that it was stolen from someone's sideboard and may be their life savings?

If you know they're stolen, that's different. I wouldn't buy Bitcoins that were advertised as stolen. But if someone pays me fiat in a legitimate transaction, and the serial numbers are tracked later and shown to be stolen, that's not my fault.

Nikinger

full member

Activity: 141

Merit: 100

Bitcoin is Bitcoin.
If I knew that the Bitcoins I received were stolen, I would simply put the Bitcoins in a mixer to (hopefully) recover the full fungibility.

2bfree

sr. member

Activity: 686

Merit: 251

I'm investigating Crypto Projects

You you accept stollen dollars?

fitbobcat

full member

Activity: 218

Merit: 101

There is no way to tell if there stolen. Think of this, A person robs a bank... He then goes to a store and buys a computer. The next customer got change (part of the stolen money). The customer was legit and knew nothing about it. So should they not accept the customers bitcoins.

lerelerele

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: bennybong on January 27, 2014, 11:15:29 AM

Blacklisting bitcoins is such a stupid idea. Think about it guys, imagine if you could blacklist fiat currencies this way. We'd have none left to spend! Fungibilty blah blah.... Roll Eyes

Fake bitcoins could be used to be new block rewards at the start of the unrewarded blocks.

jongameson

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

yes. definitely not

cp1

hero member

Activity: 616

Merit: 500

Stop using branwallets

Quote from: cr1776 on January 27, 2014, 10:10:34 AM

Quote from: cp1 on January 27, 2014, 10:08:31 AM

No I wouldn't accept them. I check the serial number of every dollar bill in my wallet against the national database of stolen money (Library of Laundering). The LOL also tracks terrorist funds digitally and I refuse to take that. Unfortunately it means I send most of my paycheck back and I'm totally broke.

LOL L.O.L.

What happens with regard to tainted electrons that power the banking system? :-)

I split them into quarks and see if any of them are clean, otherwise I throw out the lot of them.

On a serious note, there are 2 problems with this thread:

Bitcoins are actually destroyed when spent, so there's no such thing as receiving stolen coins. You get fresh ones every time
Accept and Except are not the same word.

Bobsurplus

legendary

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1000

Making money since I was in the womb! @emc2whale

100% I would except them, not only that... I welcome them!

Sutters Mill

hero member

Activity: 976

Merit: 575

Cryptophile at large

Well let's put it into fiat terms and see if morals change:

Would you accept a wad of cash from someone, knowing that it was stolen from someone's sideboard and may be their life savings?

I'm not saying anything either way here, just curious.

Taking the fear of being caught out of it, think of the same question as above but with the money being stolen 3 years ago. Does that change things, knowing that you might not get caught like with BTC?

ChuckBuck

hero member

Activity: 1372

Merit: 783

better everyday ♥

No hesitation. Yes, I would accept stolen bitcoins. Finders keepers! Tongue

msc

sr. member

Activity: 284

Merit: 250

Quote from: whtchocla7e on January 27, 2014, 08:42:12 AM

Bitcoin cannot be stolen.

But yes, I would accept Bitcoins that someone unexpectedly lost control of.

Private keys can be stolen, which equates to Bitcoins being stolen.

But as soon as I send coins from one address to another, nobody knows if both addresses are mine, or if I used the stolen coins to make a legitimate purchase. So while coins can be stolen, I don't consider "stolen coins" to be any different than "coins". You can take action against the person who committed the theft, not the person who holds the coins.

Sutters Mill

hero member

Activity: 976

Merit: 575

Cryptophile at large

Quote from: fluidjax on January 27, 2014, 11:26:47 AM

Lets say I have 1 bitcoin that the 'system' recognises as stolen, I then send 1 satoshi of that bitcoin to every known bitcoin address that contains any coins. Then the whole black listing system breaks down.

The intention is good, like a benevolent dictator, but it breaks one of the core principles of bitcoin, it centralises control with some authority. That authority is vulnerable to corruption.

It must never be allowed to happen.

Wouldn't this just mean that everyone has 1 satoshi that they can't use, not that the whole thing will fall over?

Topic: would you accept stolen bitcoins? - page 3. (Read 4527 times)