Topic: Would you invest in a bitcoin startup who places ATM BTC machines in US cities? - page 2. (Read 5173 times)
September 03, 2013, 05:22:15 AM
not in US... other countries yes
September 03, 2013, 02:24:19 AM
Yes, please, not only in US
September 03, 2013, 02:18:27 AM
I would invest FOR CERTAIN. If you guys are really intent on doing this (despite the stiff competition from other bitcoin atm companies [I believe there are now to at the moment in pre-order stage]), then perhaps consider putting together 5btc and then beggining an asset of shares to trade on bitfunder. This way, you could get startup capital, and have a way to publicly trade your company like an asset.
September 03, 2013, 02:10:57 AM
Quote
You're selling Bitcoins. MSB regulations apply.
This is wrong. For most people who are selling bitcons, MSB regulations do NOT apply. However, if you are selling AND buying bitcoins for fiat (e.g. exchanging) and doing it as a business they probably will, depending on State, blah, blah, extensive legal morass, etc.
FinCEN makes no distinction between selling Bitcoins, buying Bitcoins or buying and selling Bitcoins.
September 03, 2013, 01:57:15 AM
Not a lawyer but I think you're gonna need some big hitter investors to comply with all 50 state laws for MSBs. You're gonna need someone w/ deep pockets that shares the same vision. It's onerous but dem's the breaks.
I would def. invest with one that did the above.
I would def. invest with one that did the above.
September 03, 2013, 01:03:47 AM
If some "for obvious reasons we stay anonymous" company runs it, I would certainly not invest.
If my brother runs it, I would invest.
With anybody in between these two, I would invest more or less time to decide if it's worth the hassle.
If my brother runs it, I would invest.
With anybody in between these two, I would invest more or less time to decide if it's worth the hassle.
+1
September 03, 2013, 01:02:36 AM
Quote
You're selling Bitcoins. MSB regulations apply.
This is wrong. For most people who are selling bitcons, MSB regulations do NOT apply. However, if you are selling AND buying bitcoins for fiat (e.g. exchanging) and doing it as a business they probably will, depending on State, blah, blah, extensive legal morass, etc.
September 03, 2013, 12:12:07 AM
If some "for obvious reasons we stay anonymous" company runs it, I would certainly not invest.
If my brother runs it, I would invest.
With anybody in between these two, I would invest more or less time to decide if it's worth the hassle.
If my brother runs it, I would invest.
With anybody in between these two, I would invest more or less time to decide if it's worth the hassle.
September 02, 2013, 06:22:33 PM
You might get more potential discussion if you move this to project development. You're not discussing a loan here.
I hope to be soon and I value input from this forum in creating a workable structure. The larger community does not have your insight, Vod.
Then get input from the community!
You will not get the proper information here. The people that read this forum want to lend coins - they have little interest in the laws of a bit coin ATM.
Move to project development forum and you will get higher quality responses. :-)
September 02, 2013, 06:19:59 PM
You might get more potential discussion if you move this to project development. You're not discussing a loan here.
I hope to be soon and I value input from this forum in creating a workable structure. The larger community does not have your insight, Vod.
September 02, 2013, 06:15:58 PM
From the OP
September 2, 2013:
At the moment this is not an offer to enter a loan agreement but an exploration of interest in the idea. We are not seeking lenders right now but we would like to start conversations with anyone who might be interested or have questions.
At the moment this is not an offer to enter a loan agreement but an exploration of interest in the idea. We are not seeking lenders right now but we would like to start conversations with anyone who might be interested or have questions.
You might get more potential discussion if you move this to project development. You're not discussing a loan here.
September 02, 2013, 06:12:51 PM
Asking for investments/loans seems a bit premature until you get your legal act together.
From the OP
September 2, 2013:
At the moment this is not an offer to enter a loan agreement but an exploration of interest in the idea. We are not seeking lenders right now but we would like to start conversations with anyone who might be interested or have questions.
At the moment this is not an offer to enter a loan agreement but an exploration of interest in the idea. We are not seeking lenders right now but we would like to start conversations with anyone who might be interested or have questions.
September 02, 2013, 06:10:36 PM
If Walmart doesn't need to check ID when selling prepaid visa's, surely a machine can do the same, right?
Can't I just adopt the same policy Walmart uses where they don't check ID up to $300 per day per person?
Can't I just adopt the same policy Walmart uses where they don't check ID up to $300 per day per person?
Asking for investments/loans seems a bit premature until you get your legal act together.
September 02, 2013, 05:59:52 PM
Comply with the Bank Secrecy Act. At a minimum know your customers, collect identitifcation, record transactions, report suspicious transactions to FinCEN and develop an AML program.
If Walmart doesn't need to check ID when selling prepaid visa's, surely a machine can do the same, right?
Can't I just adopt the same policy Walmart uses where they don't check ID up to $300 per day per person?
September 02, 2013, 05:50:32 PM
Only because the only action I'm aware at the federal level was the Mt Gox seizure and I assume the problem their is they are acting as an exchange. I'm not a lawyer and I recognize the need for one.
Other than filing as an MSB what do you think we'd need to do? (And what do we need to do as an MSB?)
Other than filing as an MSB what do you think we'd need to do? (And what do we need to do as an MSB?)
Comply with the Bank Secrecy Act. At a minimum know your customers, collect identitifcation, record transactions, report suspicious transactions to FinCEN and develop an AML program.
September 02, 2013, 05:48:28 PM
Only because the only action I'm aware at the federal level was the Mt Gox seizure and I assume the problem there was they are acting as an exchange. I'm not a lawyer and I recognize the need for one.
Other than filing as an MSB what do you think we'd need to do? (And what do we need to do as an MSB?)
Other than filing as an MSB what do you think we'd need to do? (And what do we need to do as an MSB?)
September 02, 2013, 05:42:19 PM
Your selling Bitcoins. MSB regulations apply. Depending on the exact business model and the wording of state laws money transmitter requirements in one or more states apply. It is a very complicated issue and likely will require legal counsel.
Not sure why you conditioned your explanation with "like an exchange". By FinCEN's guidance if you are exchanging BTC for USD or USD for BTC then you are a money service business.
[quote[As only a seller of "numeric codes" I'm not sure what regulations specifically apply.[/quote]
Most US dollar are simply numeric codes. That isn't much of a legal defense for anything.
Not sure why you conditioned your explanation with "like an exchange". By FinCEN's guidance if you are exchanging BTC for USD or USD for BTC then you are a money service business.
[quote[As only a seller of "numeric codes" I'm not sure what regulations specifically apply.[/quote]
Most US dollar are simply numeric codes. That isn't much of a legal defense for anything.
September 02, 2013, 05:37:44 PM
How do you plan on dealing with the regulatory issues? How do you plan on identifying and verifying customer identities. The tech is trivial, the laws/regulations not so much. If you intend to just operate above the law, well consider how incredibly easy it is to seized an expensive public fixed asset like an ATM.
First, we don't intend to operate outside the law. I am unaware of any law that requires a "seller of bitcoin" to do anything special. I am aware of MSB laws but I am not sure they apply unless I am selling bitcoin that I mine or buying and selling like an exchange.
As only a seller of "numeric codes" I'm not sure what regulations specifically apply. FWIW these are the kind of questions we need to address before we launch so I really appreciate you asking.
I agree the tech is trivial. In my mind it's no different than an automatic movie ticket vending machine I see at Fandango theaters, except we won't accept credit cards ;-)
Why would bitcoin need to be distributed through a kiosk/machine?
It does not, obviously since you and I have bitcoin and we have never used such a machine. My poll in the newbie section, however, demonstrates people are interested in using such a device.
September 02, 2013, 05:22:29 PM
How else can bitcoin be distributed? (Through a kiosk / machine). I was thinking the private key distribution made sense.
Why would bitcoin need to be distributed through a kiosk/machine?Why having a portable wallet device holding the private keys you chose to upload to it wouldn't be enough?
September 02, 2013, 05:04:34 PM
How do you plan on dealing with the regulatory issues? How do you plan on identifying and verifying customer identities. The tech is trivial, the laws/regulations not so much. If you intend to just operate above the law, well consider how incredibly easy it is to seized an expensive public fixed asset like an ATM.
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