Would you pay taxes if you could live off bitcoins?

cryptoanarchist

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Quote from: EhVedadoOAnonimato on July 10, 2012, 09:05:02 AM

That was just an example. The situation would be similar if I could obtain my income in bitcoins, or cash for that matter. I'd really want not to pay taxes, but I'd also want not to get caught. Tough.

I'd propose the creation of a tax evasion wiki on Torland, so people could share tips and such. But it could backfire, as nothing would stop the thieves themselves to learn from such wiki how to catch more people, or write false tips ("baits") on it etc...

How hard it is to not file depends on where you work. If you work for a corp that made you fill out a W-4, forget about it - you've already contracted with the Fed by signing your name to a SSN.

If you contract yourself out for cash and bitcoins, you don't owe taxes anyway. And there is no way for the IRS to prove what you made.

EhVedadoOAnonimato

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That was just an example. The situation would be similar if I could obtain my income in bitcoins, or cash for that matter. I'd really want not to pay taxes, but I'd also want not to get caught. Tough.

I'd propose the creation of a tax evasion wiki on Torland, so people could share tips and such. But it could backfire, as nothing would stop the thieves themselves to learn from such wiki how to catch more people, or write false tips ("baits") on it etc...

cryptoanarchist

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Quote from: EhVedadoOAnonimato on July 10, 2012, 02:36:30 AM

Oh, me too. But thing is... suppose BTC price multiplies by 100 or something (just for the sake of the example).
I honestly wouldn't know how to actually profit from it (make good use of my coins) while remaining "under the radar". (it wouldn't surprise me if some of the "early adopters" didn't cash out during the bubble peak for this very reason)
I might consider emigrating to a tax haven or something if such a thing happens. Cheesy

But long distance emigration is always a very tough decision to make.

When the BTC price multiplies by 100 times what it is now, you'll really see the revolution begin.

EhVedadoOAnonimato

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Didn't get what you mean, FlipPro...

FlipPro

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Quote from: EhVedadoOAnonimato on July 10, 2012, 02:36:30 AM

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on July 09, 2012, 12:57:42 PM

I'm not too worried. I already have BTC stashed in places the IRS will never find, and even if they did they couldn't decrypt them.

Oh, me too. But thing is... suppose BTC price multiplies by 100 or something (just for the sake of the example).
I honestly wouldn't know how to actually profit from it (make good use of my coins) while remaining "under the radar". (it wouldn't surprise me if some of the "early adopters" didn't cash out during the bubble peak for this very reason)
I might consider emigrating to a tax haven or something if such a thing happens. Cheesy

But long distance emigration is always a very tough decision to make.

Your reason is the reason why anyone who takes the currency seriously should just come out and say it...

EhVedadoOAnonimato

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Quote from: cryptoanarchist on July 09, 2012, 12:57:42 PM

I'm not too worried. I already have BTC stashed in places the IRS will never find, and even if they did they couldn't decrypt them.

Oh, me too. But thing is... suppose BTC price multiplies by 100 or something (just for the sake of the example).
I honestly wouldn't know how to actually profit from it (make good use of my coins) while remaining "under the radar". (it wouldn't surprise me if some of the "early adopters" didn't cash out during the bubble peak for this very reason)
I might consider emigrating to a tax haven or something if such a thing happens. Cheesy

But long distance emigration is always a very tough decision to make.

westkybitcoins

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Firstbits: Compromised. Thanks, Android!

Quote from: cryptoanarchist on July 09, 2012, 12:57:42 PM

Quote from: EhVedadoOAnonimato on July 09, 2012, 12:08:30 PM

Ha, the option I found the most logical is exactly the one with less votes so far.... (at least "No" + "depends" beats "Yes", what's good

)

A question to all those answering "No": if you leave in a place with income tax, and assuming your income is at least twice that of the exemption threshold, how do you actually intend not to pay it at all? Even if you have bitcoin-only revenues and your employer (if applicable) doesn't declare your earnings to the government you're subject to... how would you hide the discrepancies between your belongings and your declared income? How would you buy a house, for example?
Or you just don't care and intend to do it Irwin Schiff style?

The questions above are not meant to provoke, I really wonder how to do those things. Cheesy

I'm not too worried. I already have BTC stashed in places the IRS will never find, and even if they did they couldn't decrypt them.

I also know there are a lot of other people thinking like me.

Tick Tick Tick....that's the sound of the government's life running out.

Or at least the modern-day concept of the fraudulent "nation-state."

Let's hope.

cryptoanarchist

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Quote from: EhVedadoOAnonimato on July 09, 2012, 12:08:30 PM

Ha, the option I found the most logical is exactly the one with less votes so far.... (at least "No" + "depends" beats "Yes", what's good

)

A question to all those answering "No": if you leave in a place with income tax, and assuming your income is at least twice that of the exemption threshold, how do you actually intend not to pay it at all? Even if you have bitcoin-only revenues and your employer (if applicable) doesn't declare your earnings to the government you're subject to... how would you hide the discrepancies between your belongings and your declared income? How would you buy a house, for example?
Or you just don't care and intend to do it Irwin Schiff style?

The questions above are not meant to provoke, I really wonder how to do those things. Cheesy

I'm not too worried. I already have BTC stashed in places the IRS will never find, and even if they did they couldn't decrypt them.

I also know there are a lot of other people thinking like me.

Tick Tick Tick....that's the sound of the government's life running out.

hashman

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First of all, we can't "live off bitcoins". We live off the land. Period. Give a moment's respect to food and water.
So presumably, the OP means to ask: "Would you pay taxes if you could live using bitcoins as your only currency for transactions"?

The obvious answer is YES, lets list two of the taxes you will BY DEINITION be paying:

1) transaction costs (you WILL pay a fee to miners if you are in fact using your biticoin currency)
2) monetary inflation tax (new blocks get new currency.. this is another effective tax you are paying to miners)

Lets consider some other taxes you are LIKELY to pay:

1) any kind of tax a more heavily armed person than yourself imposes on you
2) voluntary taxes

There are countless forms of these taxes, obviously we all like #2 (at least enough to volunteer funds), and #1 some of us like and others dislike.

Local tax collectors will let you pay your debts with bitcoin soon.

myrkul

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FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: EhVedadoOAnonimato on July 09, 2012, 12:08:30 PM

How would you hide the discrepancies between your belongings and your declared income? How would you buy a house, for example?
Or you just don't care and intend to do it Irwin Schiff style?

Well, that's one of those "risks". I think a combination of not giving them a reason to look too closely, and operating out of their view would probably work best. Not to go into too much detail, "flying below the radar."

EhVedadoOAnonimato

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Ha, the option I found the most logical is exactly the one with less votes so far.... (at least "No" + "depends" beats "Yes", what's good

)

A question to all those answering "No": if you leave in a place with income tax, and assuming your income is at least twice that of the exemption threshold, how do you actually intend not to pay it at all? Even if you have bitcoin-only revenues and your employer (if applicable) doesn't declare your earnings to the government you're subject to... how would you hide the discrepancies between your belongings and your declared income? How would you buy a house, for example?
Or you just don't care and intend to do it Irwin Schiff style?

The questions above are not meant to provoke, I really wonder how to do those things. Cheesy

clone4501

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Of course, I would continue to pay taxes if I could live off of Bitcoin. Keep in mind, Bitcoin was created to be a P2P decentralized electronic cash system. One still needs to pay taxes even if he or she lives off of either paper or electronic cash. Bitcoin is revolutionary, but hardly an excuse for not paying taxes.

myrkul

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Quote from: TheButterZone on July 09, 2012, 04:29:19 AM

He's the first. And considering his post count, maybe we're all just being trolled by BCT's officially-sanctioned devil's advocate.

The more he posts, the more I get the impression that he is indeed trolling, he's already made a brief appearance on my ignore list, and is likely to get placed back there pretty soon, if this track he's on doesn't change course.

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

Quote from: myrkul on July 09, 2012, 04:26:29 AM

Quote from: TheButterZone on July 09, 2012, 04:11:43 AM

So enjoy your spot as #1 on my ignore list, LIAR.

Report the liar 'Hawker' here.

Impressive. Is he actually the first person on there, or is it just a metaphorical "#1", in that his transgressions pushed him to the top of your shit list?

He's the first. And considering his post count, maybe we're all just being trolled by BCT's officially-sanctioned devil's advocate.

myrkul

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Quote from: TheButterZone on July 09, 2012, 04:11:43 AM

So enjoy your spot as #1 on my ignore list, LIAR.

Report the liar 'Hawker' here.

Impressive. Is he actually the first person on there, or is it just a metaphorical "#1", in that his transgressions pushed him to the top of your shit list?

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

Quote from: Hawker on July 09, 2012, 02:45:36 AM

Quote from: TheButterZone on July 08, 2012, 07:08:12 PM

Quote from: Hawker on July 08, 2012, 04:40:00 PM

Quote from: TheButterZone on July 08, 2012, 04:34:30 PM

Mob rule of 2 people, 2 million, or 2 trillion is not legitimate, therefore there can be no 'interference' with it that an arbitrator will acknowledge. Unless that arbitrator isn't actually one at all.

I know why you say that. You haven't read http://daviddfriedman.com/The_Machinery_of_Freedom_.pdf

Read it. If you find a better libertarian manifesto, let me know. But for now, your problem is that you have not studied your own beliefs.

Maybe you should gather together a mob of 2 million and collectively tell an arbitrator I should be forced to read this "libertarian manifesto" that I don't subscribe to, so the arbitrator and I can laugh in your face.

Its sort of sad. You guys claim to be anarchists and you don't understand your own beliefs.

In an anarchy, there are no fixed rights, its market law. There won't be a single arbitrator - there will be many and pro-growth ones will have a competitive advantage. The 2 million people will between them find at least one pro-growth arbitrator. Once they get the case in front of him, its game over for the hold-out.

The question you should be asking is why someone who is not an anarchist has to explain this to you.

You're DONE. BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT times infinity out of you, including the outright lie "You guys claim to be anarchists", quoting ME, when I have never claimed to be an anarchist on BCT or in any forum, medium, or even thought that in my own head.

So enjoy your spot as #1 on my ignore list, LIAR.

Report the liar 'Hawker' here.

myrkul

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Quote from: Hawker on July 09, 2012, 02:45:36 AM

Its sort of sad. You guys claim to be anarchists and you don't understand your own beliefs.

The more logical answer, and the simpler one, is that you, not an anarchist, do not correctly understand our beliefs.

Your claim is rather like me trying to teach a Muslim about Shariah law.

Edit: My above supposition becomes much more likely, as you, as evinced by the below post, cannot differentiate the arguments of an anarchist from a non-anarchist.

Hawker

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Quote from: TheButterZone on July 08, 2012, 07:08:12 PM

Quote from: Hawker on July 08, 2012, 04:40:00 PM

Quote from: TheButterZone on July 08, 2012, 04:34:30 PM

Mob rule of 2 people, 2 million, or 2 trillion is not legitimate, therefore there can be no 'interference' with it that an arbitrator will acknowledge. Unless that arbitrator isn't actually one at all.

I know why you say that. You haven't read http://daviddfriedman.com/The_Machinery_of_Freedom_.pdf

Read it. If you find a better libertarian manifesto, let me know. But for now, your problem is that you have not studied your own beliefs.

Maybe you should gather together a mob of 2 million and collectively tell an arbitrator I should be forced to read this "libertarian manifesto" that I don't subscribe to, so the arbitrator and I can laugh in your face.

Its sort of sad. You guys claim to be anarchists and you don't understand your own beliefs.

In an anarchy, there are no fixed rights, its market law. There won't be a single arbitrator - there will be many and pro-growth ones will have a competitive advantage. The 2 million people will between them find at least one pro-growth arbitrator. Once they get the case in front of him, its game over for the hold-out.

The question you should be asking is why someone who is not an anarchist has to explain this to you.

FlipPro

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I do/would pay taxes, as long as we have direct access to our democracy.

Right now the problem is that our elections are bought, and the same people buying the elections are the ones advocating for even LESS control...

nevafuse

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Quote from: Matthew N. Wright on July 08, 2012, 05:13:41 PM

I already live off of bitcoins and I pay taxes. This thread is ignorant because it assumes that Bitcoin will eliminate localized currencies, which is highly illogical for numerous reasons, and in addition forgets that people are already choosing to pay taxes to the network and pretty much every product and service provider in Bitcoin.

I wasn't assuming the elimination of localized currencies as much as anonymity & full control over your money. And the taxes/fees I was referring to were the mandatory ones imposed by current governments onto its citizens for its services.

Topic: Would you pay taxes if you could live off bitcoins? (Read 11425 times)