Someone wanting to get/buy FPGA devices at that time maybe had some "inside" info that no one else had?
Topic: [WTB] Your BFL mini rig order (Read 3315 times)
I'm curious if anyone's actually bitten this close to supposed ASIC release. A simple yes no would suffice.
Bump. Still looking to pick up some more FPGA mini rigs.
Bump. If you would like to sell your FPGA mini rig for a premium lets talk.
Money talks
Bump. If you would like to sell your FPGA mini rig for a premium lets talk.
bump
there i bumped it for yah
there i bumped it for yah
I believe that they are which is why this thread is so thin. 
The only time an existing mini rig order will NOT command a premium is when its viability as a miner disappears. That will not happen until ASICs are deployed in quantity. Difficulty will need to grow to several times what it is today. Even when difficulty doubles, an FPGA mini rig will still pull in $350/week. That is the weekly premium an 'in place order' will command at that time.
Today, an 'in place' mini rig order theoretically commands a $780/week premium. I would add that, as a buyer, I would not pay this much. But I might pay $200-$400 per week premium because I know what the extra mining time is worth to me.
Conversely, as a seller, I would not sell my place in line for 'merely' full price because I know it is worth up to $780/week more to someone who is looking to buy my place.
In the worst case, a mini rig can always be sold for nearly full price anyway because of BFL's full-price trade-up program (ending March 2013 IIRC); there will always be someone willing to buy an old FPGA rig for close to full-price until that program ends.
In the end it is up to both the seller and buyer to come to a price agreement. As long as both are satisfied, it is a win-win situation for all.
IMHO, an existing 'place in line' commands a premium over a fresh order and any potential sellers (and buyers) should be aware of this.
Today, an 'in place' mini rig order theoretically commands a $780/week premium. I would add that, as a buyer, I would not pay this much. But I might pay $200-$400 per week premium because I know what the extra mining time is worth to me.
Conversely, as a seller, I would not sell my place in line for 'merely' full price because I know it is worth up to $780/week more to someone who is looking to buy my place.
In the worst case, a mini rig can always be sold for nearly full price anyway because of BFL's full-price trade-up program (ending March 2013 IIRC); there will always be someone willing to buy an old FPGA rig for close to full-price until that program ends.
In the end it is up to both the seller and buyer to come to a price agreement. As long as both are satisfied, it is a win-win situation for all.
IMHO, an existing 'place in line' commands a premium over a fresh order and any potential sellers (and buyers) should be aware of this.
You're also hedging against the very high likelihood that BFL doesn't deliver their ASIC in October. It's smart and there's certainly nothing wrong with that.
Let's say you have a spot on the minirig waiting list. You'll get it at some point, then a few months later ASIC comes out, and you either have to pay more or you won't ever turn even. Selling your rig to gigavps for full price in this case ensures you won't lose money, i.e., it's a win for you.
Actually, it would be silly for anyone to sell an active rig order for 'merely' full price; an active rig box order is worth more than a fresh order. In fact, the older your order is (i.e. the closer it is to shipping), the higher its value. Consider this: Let's assume the 'ship time' from order to delivery for rig boxes is 12 weeks (the actual number is irrelevant for this exercise). If someone were to order a rig today, they would be mining in 12 weeks. If, instead, they purchased a rig order from someone who has ordered 6 weeks ago, that rig would be delivered 6 weeks earlier than a newly-ordered one.
It means it will be mining for 6 weeks longer (since it arrives 6 weeks earlier). How much are those extra 6 weeks worth? Well, at 25Ghps and a difficulty of 1.9mil and $8.50/BTC, the rig generates $112 per day. Those extra 6 weeks of mining will bring in an extra $4700.
This is why giga doesn't simply place a new minirig order from BFL; it is much more advantageous (i.e. profitable) to buy an existing order from someone else.
Any prospective seller should keep this in mind. For every week that your order has been active, its value over a fresh order goes up by $780 ($112 per day). This is the premium you should be able to charge someone who wanted to purchase your order. If your order was placed 6 weeks ago, you'd be able to charge a premium of $4700.
Now, obviously I wouldn't expect any prospective buyer to pay that much of a premium since there is some risk (difficulty changes, BTC price fluctuations, etc.) ... but there will be some 'middle ground' which is both fair to the buyer and seller.
But in no way should a seller of an active minirig order pay ONLY the 'full price'; it is worth a lot more and buyers will know that.
You are missing one fact Epoch. If someone doesn't have the money to upgrade, and they start mining today, there is a decent change they will not make their money back.
So, your premium is out the door if you keep the rig and don't make your money back, right? It's a losing proposition if diff continues to increase and the price does not hold at $8.5.
I am offering CERTAINTY that a mini rig order will produce a 100% return much quicker than it would if it was mining.
Let's say you have a spot on the minirig waiting list. You'll get it at some point, then a few months later ASIC comes out, and you either have to pay more or you won't ever turn even. Selling your rig to gigavps for full price in this case ensures you won't lose money, i.e., it's a win for you.
Actually, it would be silly for anyone to sell an active rig order for 'merely' full price; an active rig box order is worth more than a fresh order. In fact, the older your order is (i.e. the closer it is to shipping), the higher its value. Consider this: Let's assume the 'ship time' from order to delivery for rig boxes is 12 weeks (the actual number is irrelevant for this exercise). If someone were to order a rig today, they would be mining in 12 weeks. If, instead, they purchased a rig order from someone who has ordered 6 weeks ago, that rig would be delivered 6 weeks earlier than a newly-ordered one.
How much are those extra 6 weeks worth? Well, at 25Ghps and a difficulty of 1.9mil and $8.50/BTC, the rig generates $112 per day. Those extra 6 weeks of mining will bring in an extra $4700.
This is why giga doesn't simply place a new minirig order from BFL; it is much more advantageous (i.e. profitable) to buy an existing order from someone else.
Any prospective seller should keep this in mind. For every week that your order has been active, its value over a fresh order goes up by $780 ($112 per day). This is the premium you should be able to charge someone who wanted to purchase your order. If your order was placed 6 weeks ago, you'd be able to charge a premium of $4700.
Now, obviously I wouldn't expect prospective buyers to pay that much of a premium since there is risk (difficulty changes, BTC price fluctuations, etc.) ... but there will be some 'middle ground' which is both fair to the buyer and seller.
But in no way should a seller of an active minirig order pay ONLY the 'full price'; it is worth a lot more and buyers will know that.
Bump. If anyone would like to sell their FPGA mini rig order please get in contact with me.
Bump.
Tiny bump to see if there is anyone out there looking to sell their order.
Actually I was insinuating falsely that giga and BFL worked out a backroom deal where he would get a nice 2:1 trade in because he is their best customer hence the buying of more minirigs.
This was just me trying (and failing) to be funny and I will leave it at that. I am always watching big players like giga as you have to understand the market leaders or you will get nowhere.
This was just me trying (and failing) to be funny and I will leave it at that. I am always watching big players like giga as you have to understand the market leaders or you will get nowhere.
Giga doesn't even need to post now, you can do it all for him ;-)
Why would you need 4 more when you can turn the 4 you have into SC minirigs, unless BFL is offering you something compelling....hmmmm.
It's very easy.Let's say you have a spot on the minirig waiting list. You'll get it at some point, then a few months later ASIC comes out, and you either have to pay more or you won't ever turn even. Selling your rig to gigavps for full price in this case ensures you won't lose money, i.e., it's a win for you.
From gigavps' point of view, it works like this: He will already buy ASICs, and he can trade in his FPGA miners at full cost. When he buys them from you, he will later trade them in at full cost. Since he was going to buy the ASICs anyway, this doesn't give him a loss. In the meantime, he will use the minirigs to mine, netting him a bit of a profit in the time between when he gets it and when minirigs come out. Therefore, it's also a win to gigavps.
This is a very neat and orderly offer, there's no hidden catch, and both sides profit. You may ask who pays the profit and thus takes a loss compared to the situation of no trade happening. Well, that's simple, that's BFL, because they provide the trade-in arrangement.
No conspiracy necessary.
No problems, I was just feeling a little devious at the time. ...but didn't you have 4 more rigs on order already?
I see there is a lot of competition in this space so good luck.
...but didn't you have 4 more rigs on order already?I see there is a lot of competition in this space so good luck.
Why would you need 4 more when you can turn the 4 you have into SC minirigs, unless BFL is offering you something compelling....hmmmm.
So let's not get all conspiracy crazy in this thread please. I need moar mini rigs to get over 200Gh. This is the extent of it.
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