Topic: www.instant-bitcoins.com and PayProCoin - Breaking UK Laws? (Read 2385 times)

well i'm am continually questioning clone-coin postings, and the intent behind any IPO or pre-mine; so check out new [ANN] threads regularly  
I just don't like honest people being scammed, and as there are a lot of juveniles who use these forums, it's easy pickings for people who think they can make a quick stash of money by leading people into their scams, it is my continued opinion that ProPayCoin is one of those 'get rich quick' scams and there may or may not be the intent to sell off a massive pre-mine, at first chance.

the facts regarding PayProCoin;

A varied clone of the Bitcoin cryptocurrency code.
80Billion coins to be mined, over decades.
80million coins pre-mined by the developer, at an initial IPO offering price of 0.00002500 btc, offered by Instant Bitcoins UK
40million offered in the IPO = 1000BTC (at time of launch exchange rate : €410,696.74)



Therefore, the company; Instant Bitcoins UK must now clearly show that they have the funds to buy the remaining 40million pre-mined PayProCoins at the price listed for sale, as they have been held back for use by the company. I am now seeking clarity on this issue from the FCA (http://www.fca.org.uk).

I will continue warning people of the risks of such investments, and I am always happy to accept professional answers, laid out in a constructive way.

I have done the same thing in the past with coins such as URO (which I currently now invest in), SHACOIN (which had a hidden premine) and others.
Anyone running a legitimate business, should be able to retort any concern; by showing, in a professional manner that their intent is a good one.


this thread is now locked as I believe it is not against the law to not offer refunds in this case, and the answers I have been given seem correct.
A more generic topic relating to ICO's has been posted here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/initial-crowd-offerings-the-legal-standing-of-companies-icos-653205

Ahhh I'm sure we will talk again on another less litigious thread.

take care mate. been good chatting 

Good luck with all of this, I'm gonna wipe my hands and walk away because I cant be arsed to deal with any legal stuff.

I have made no effort to defame anyone, I simply asked questions of the legitimacy of a business regarding refund policies and I believe that I have received clarity on that particular question on this thread; none of it was personal and it was asked without prejudice;


An untrue imputation - is a statement, not a question.

from; http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/right-of-free-expression/defamation/defamation-elements-of-a-claim.html


I should reiterate, this was made as a direct personal message to me, from The CEO, Darren Palmer;

Well deformation of character without proof is illegal (I think, so please proof me wrong on this). This isnt a great way of starting a business, guess you have really pissed them off.

continual deletion of posts (which I hope he has kept copies of) and that notification. yes.

"Trolling is illegal" 

Well that got out of hand fast.

Is this the only details so far he has sent you??

I have been served a legal notice on the Original [ANN] Thread of PayProCoin.



response in text;


Dear Darren,

Thank you for your notice of intent to pursue legal actions against me.
As it has been your initiative to begin legal proceedings, and given
notification via this forum thread, I hereby serve notice to you that I
will only accept correspondence from your legal representative via this
open and public forum thread. Any correspondence outwith this forum
thread will be null, and duly ignored.

For your assurances, I will consider all visible posts by myself on this
thread, to be your prerogative with intent to sue.
It is the obligation therefore, of your lawyer to inform me of any court
hearing; date and location, with at least 4 weeks notice, given via this
forum thread.

Without Prejudice,

Russell.

I will await their legal correspondence. I hope to hear back from PayPoint in the near future regarding their affiliation with Instant Bitcoins UK.

the only reason for the IPO is that they know it's the only way that premine is going to raise anywhere near a decent amount of money.
If they had such confidence in the coin, they'd do ZERO premine and build a community around it. The best coins have succeeded with mere donations from the mining community. Pre-mine isn't the way to maintain a coins value; more, the opposite.

Yup, they were just class all the way through the game.

Thats a common story being told on here often really, pre-mined coins makes a few satoshi and gets dumped and forgotten so quickly. Well hopefully this wont effect paypoints side of stuff. 

I genuinely LOLLED my head off - Dutch showing some class, reckon they coulda beat any team with that performance!


I reckon they will get a massive hashrate - there's a lot of old ASICs out there which no longer earn much on BTC, people always look for new launches to pump n dump.

I reckon it won't be long until that IPO price is cut in half, and with the sheer number of coins to be mined, actual value isn't going to be much more than 100 satoshi (if it even settles at that price) - i'd give 'em 72 hours on a toy exchange to dump that premine. It's always the way... ho-hum 

SPAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha........ (catch breath) ahahahahahahhahahahahhahah

Hmmmmm they are using SHA-256 wonder how many people will mine on it??

me too; mexico v cameroon 2nd half ...then spain v holland ...then chile v australia 

I don't think in the strictest sense of the financial term, that they are actually doing an IPO.

From what I understand of their offering it is more likely to become aligned to crowdfunding, which the FCA DO have some regulation over and had rules introduced back in April.
Regretfully I will do the research for that as I have far more pressing matters to attend to.... good luck if you have to read any of their circular white papers!


(Oh and while Crycurex-Support is still accusing me of spoiling his reputation; look... seee... I am being unbiased here on BTC and not moaning about him at all)

don't get me wrong, i'm going to mine the coin, but i'm not falling for the 'ATM's in every city across the world' thing.
I like a good old pump and dump, and there is nothing special about this clone coin. 1% premine is an awful big number.

indeed, it was purely a question on my part, thank you for answering it.
So, would this no-refund policy also cover an IPO for shares? As it is indeed, an initial public offering which is taking place with regards the ProPayCoin, they have given each 'share'  a set value and have a set amount for sale. cheers

An interesting thread.
I think purely on the attitude of the CEO I won't be using Instant-BitCoins for my next purchase, but I am interested as to which piece of regulation raskul thinks the website is in breach of:

* Coins are not a tangible asset therefore not covered by the Sale of Goods Act 1979
* Coins are not a digital download as you are not actually downloading anything and therefore not covered by the Consumer Contracts Regulations
* The (old) Distance Selling Regulations (being replaced by the CCRs above from today) do not apply to goods or services where the price is dependent on market fluctuations for value (think stock markets)

The Financial Conduct Authority have long distanced themselves from being a regulator of digital currencies and went as far as de-registering a company who had managed to become registered under the radar.
The HMRC responded to a question about VAT on BitCoin transactions stating that bitcoin currency was to be treated as a single-purpose, face-value voucher.

UK Law does not effectively have any consumer regulation that manages to cover bitcoin, in my opinion

PayPoint could easily just buy up a few BTC ATM's and place them in the shops they already have point-of-sale terminals, they don't need a third party like instant-bitcoins to do that, do they? I very much doubt that they would invest the money it would take to transform their already in-situ POS terminals into BTC exchanges... I reckon instant-bitcoins uk would need to fund that, and i'm pretty damn sure, they don't have the £millions it would take, to do so. I could be wrong however.

Nah, poorly worded by me, ment just exchange BTC for fiat.