[XC][XCurrency] Decentralised Trustless Privacy Platform / Encrypted XChat / Pos - page 1402.

adhitthana

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Alpharisc on June 04, 2014, 06:48:19 PM

Any such 'dynamic trust system' seems vulnerable to the iterated prisoners dilemma by design. The goal of any blockchain based currency is fully trustless transactions. That's the entire killer app of bitcoin and bitcoin like systems. 'Dynamic trust models' represent a clear problem that has been *long* known about in the literature.

Would you be able to explain the problem in plain english, or give a"dumbed down" version for people like me.
thanks

akula999

hero member

Activity: 509

Merit: 500

Quote from: mikemikemike on June 04, 2014, 06:54:17 PM

Quote from: JakeThePanda on June 04, 2014, 06:47:50 PM

Quote from: mikemikemike on June 04, 2014, 06:41:35 PM

Wow. Glad I woke up. Looks like we're going to test 0.001225 again, probably rebound @ 0.001. If we fall through 0.001 then I suggest everyone gets their buy orders in above 0.00075, anything lower than that is crazy.

I agree that it's trying to retest. At first glance there is about 100btc of buy support between 12 and 125.

Yea. Problem is I don't think even if we rebound off of 0.0012 range we will last that long, I think we will keep retesting it until we break through. And It is only 100BTC. I've got 80k coins left that might have to go, will prob then rebuy @ 0.001. Lets wait for this bull trap to finish then ill decide

80k?!?!?! WOW! I have 180 and I thought that was a lot..

JakeThePanda

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 500

Quote from: synechist on June 04, 2014, 07:00:01 PM

Quote from: Alpharisc on June 04, 2014, 06:48:19 PM

Any such 'dynamic trust system' seems vulnerable to the iterated prisoners dilemma by design. The goal of any blockchain based currency is fully trustless transactions. That's the entire killer app of bitcoin and bitcoin like systems. 'Dynamic trust models' represent a clear problem that has been *long* known about in the literature.

People should not keep deferring to somebodies resume to assume infallibility. Just because someone is obviously very smart does not mean they are not prone to attempting to 're-invent the wheel' without reference to fields they are not perhaps as familiar with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma#The_iterated_prisoners.27_dilemma

Great to see some argumentation given. Nothing more refreshing after the trollriver. I'm very keen to hear you out.

For clarity in conversation, can you state exactly how the prisoners' dilemma plays out here? I'm aware of the nature of the scenario, but it's seldom applied in the purely standard way.

I'm not sure but I was thinking that someone that has the ability to steal will eventually attempt it at the moment they don't want to hold XC anymore. It's like a last turn just before they want to liquidate their position. Is this wrong?

mikemikemike

copper member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

Quote from: JakeThePanda on June 04, 2014, 07:02:03 PM

Quote from: mikemikemike on June 04, 2014, 06:54:17 PM

Quote from: JakeThePanda on June 04, 2014, 06:47:50 PM

Quote from: mikemikemike on June 04, 2014, 06:41:35 PM

Wow. Glad I woke up. Looks like we're going to test 0.001225 again, probably rebound @ 0.001. If we fall through 0.001 then I suggest everyone gets their buy orders in above 0.00075, anything lower than that is crazy.

I agree that it's trying to retest. At first glance there is about 100btc of buy support between 12 and 125.

Yea. Problem is I don't think even if we rebound off of 0.0012 range we will last that long, I think we will keep retesting it until we break through. And It is only 100BTC. I've got 80k coins left that might have to go, will prob then rebuy @ 0.001. Lets wait for this bull trap to finish then ill decide

Yup. It makes that triangle (I don't know the name of it) that keeps bouncing off the floor until it breaks through it. I don't know the name of these things.

Descending triangle

synechist

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1000

To commodify ethicality is to ethicise the market

Quote from: mikemikemike on June 04, 2014, 06:54:17 PM

Quote from: JakeThePanda on June 04, 2014, 06:47:50 PM

Quote from: mikemikemike on June 04, 2014, 06:41:35 PM

Wow. Glad I woke up. Looks like we're going to test 0.001225 again, probably rebound @ 0.001. If we fall through 0.001 then I suggest everyone gets their buy orders in above 0.00075, anything lower than that is crazy.

I agree that it's trying to retest. At first glance there is about 100btc of buy support between 12 and 125.

Yea. Problem is I don't think even if we rebound off of 0.0012 range we will last that long, I think we will keep retesting it until we break through. And It is only 100BTC. I've got 80k coins left that might have to go, will prob then rebuy @ 0.001. Lets wait for this bull trap to finish then ill decide

Thanks for the advance warning. Hanging out here with the trolls has some benefits.

JakeThePanda

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 500

Quote from: mikemikemike on June 04, 2014, 06:54:17 PM

Quote from: JakeThePanda on June 04, 2014, 06:47:50 PM

Quote from: mikemikemike on June 04, 2014, 06:41:35 PM

Wow. Glad I woke up. Looks like we're going to test 0.001225 again, probably rebound @ 0.001. If we fall through 0.001 then I suggest everyone gets their buy orders in above 0.00075, anything lower than that is crazy.

I agree that it's trying to retest. At first glance there is about 100btc of buy support between 12 and 125.

Yea. Problem is I don't think even if we rebound off of 0.0012 range we will last that long, I think we will keep retesting it until we break through. And It is only 100BTC. I've got 80k coins left that might have to go, will prob then rebuy @ 0.001. Lets wait for this bull trap to finish then ill decide

Yup. It makes that triangle (I don't know the name of it) that keeps bouncing off the floor until it breaks through it. I don't know the name of these things.

synechist

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1000

To commodify ethicality is to ethicise the market

Quote from: Alpharisc on June 04, 2014, 06:48:19 PM

Any such 'dynamic trust system' seems vulnerable to the iterated prisoners dilemma by design. The goal of any blockchain based currency is fully trustless transactions. That's the entire killer app of bitcoin and bitcoin like systems. 'Dynamic trust models' represent a clear problem that has been *long* known about in the literature.

People should not keep deferring to somebodies resume to assume infallibility. Just because someone is obviously very smart does not mean they are not prone to attempting to 're-invent the wheel' without reference to fields they are not perhaps as familiar with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma#The_iterated_prisoners.27_dilemma

Great to see some argumentation given. Nothing more refreshing after the trollriver. I'm very keen to hear you out.

For clarity in conversation, can you state exactly how the prisoners' dilemma plays out here? I'm aware of the nature of the scenario, but it's seldom applied in the purely standard way.

mikemikemike

copper member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

Quote from: JakeThePanda on June 04, 2014, 06:47:50 PM

Quote from: mikemikemike on June 04, 2014, 06:41:35 PM

Wow. Glad I woke up. Looks like we're going to test 0.001225 again, probably rebound @ 0.001. If we fall through 0.001 then I suggest everyone gets their buy orders in above 0.00075, anything lower than that is crazy.

I agree that it's trying to retest. At first glance there is about 100btc of buy support between 12 and 125.

Yea. Problem is I don't think even if we rebound off of 0.0012 range we will last that long, I think we will keep retesting it until we break through. And It is only 100BTC. I've got 80k coins left that might have to go, will prob then rebuy @ 0.001. Lets wait for this bull trap to finish then ill decide

synechist

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1000

To commodify ethicality is to ethicise the market

Quote from: mikemikemike on June 04, 2014, 06:41:35 PM

Wow. Glad I woke up. Looks like we're going to test 0.001225 again, probably rebound @ 0.001. If we fall through 0.001 then I suggest everyone gets their buy orders in above 0.00075, anything lower than that is crazy.

Now that would be pleasant. 0.00075 would double my position size.

I'll go with that, if only because I'm having trouble doing Fib extensions lower. Ha ha.

Alpharisc

newbie

Activity: 47

Merit: 0

Quote from: battbot on June 04, 2014, 05:25:49 PM

Quote from: AlexGR on June 04, 2014, 05:16:11 PM

Trust me when I say media attention is not really desirable while the "nodes-can-steal-money" issue remains.

Atcsecure already said dynamic trust system will prevent bad actors from stealing. Are you more or as qualified as him to present an argument opposing this? If so, let's hear it. Because all I've seen you do is offer up ungrounded "thesis statements" with no supporting arguments. Not trying to troll, but I'd like to see a solid argument of why you oppose atcsecures method. Until then, nothing you say holds any water.

Any such 'dynamic trust system' seems vulnerable to the iterated prisoners dilemma by design. The goal of any blockchain based currency is fully trustless transactions. That's the entire killer app of bitcoin and bitcoin like systems. 'Dynamic trust models' represent a clear problem that has been *long* known about in the literature.

People should not keep deferring to somebodies resume to assume infallibility. Just because someone is obviously very smart does not mean they are not prone to attempting to 're-invent the wheel' without reference to fields they are not perhaps as familiar with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma#The_iterated_prisoners.27_dilemma

JakeThePanda

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 500

Quote from: mikemikemike on June 04, 2014, 06:41:35 PM

Wow. Glad I woke up. Looks like we're going to test 0.001225 again, probably rebound @ 0.001. If we fall through 0.001 then I suggest everyone gets their buy orders in above 0.00075, anything lower than that is crazy.

I agree that it's trying to retest. At first glance there is about 100btc of buy support between 12 and 125. It's a clear support zone. Hopefully it doesn't bust through it.

creamynebula

full member

Activity: 173

Merit: 100

The client reports my stake weight as bigger than the network weight itself, that doesnt make any sense to me, can anyone clarify?

akula999

hero member

Activity: 509

Merit: 500

I wish I can buy more. I bought a few when it was .0013 to .0018 - i'm all out of money. Cant buy anymore. This is an awesome coin. I believe in the coin , the dev, team and technology. GO XC!!!

mikemikemike

copper member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

Wow. Glad I woke up. Looks like we're going to test 0.001225 again, probably rebound @ 0.001. If we fall through 0.001 then I suggest everyone gets their buy orders in above 0.00075, anything lower than that is crazy.

Teka

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1000

Quote from: zheratuul on June 04, 2014, 06:34:16 PM

Quote from: jasinlee on June 04, 2014, 06:24:25 PM

That is just it, it functions now.

Im new here, who are you?

Our team spirit.. Cheesy

SushiChef

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

Quote from: jasinlee on June 04, 2014, 06:24:25 PM

That is just it, it functions now.

+1

zheratuul

member

Activity: 74

Merit: 10

Quote from: jasinlee on June 04, 2014, 06:24:25 PM

That is just it, it functions now.

Im new here, who are you?

jasinlee

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

Its as easy as 0, 1, 1, 2, 3

That is just it, it functions now.

CryptoGretzky

sr. member

Activity: 322

Merit: 250

Quote from: AlexGR on June 04, 2014, 06:22:17 PM

Quote from: Artoodeetoo on June 04, 2014, 06:13:06 PM

Quote from: AlexGR on June 04, 2014, 06:05:06 PM

Quote from: battbot on June 04, 2014, 05:25:49 PM

Quote from: AlexGR on June 04, 2014, 05:16:11 PM

Trust me when I say media attention is not really desirable while the "nodes-can-steal-money" issue remains.

Atcsecure already said dynamic trust system will prevent bad actors from stealing. Are you more or as qualified as him to present an argument opposing this? If so, let's hear it. Because all I've seen you do is offer up ungrounded "thesis statements" with no supporting arguments. Not trying to troll, but I'd like to see a solid argument of why you oppose atcsecures method. Until then, nothing you say holds any water.

Operative word: will.

Which means, as it is right now, with nodes being able to steal money, you don't want much attention because it can instantly snap the other way around to ...negative attention. Let's see the fix first...

You seem to spend most of your time on the DRK thread.. What a shock.. Apols in advance for giving you some competition.

I've given the exact same advice regarding DRK marketing in the past. Finish the product, market later. No need to have broken functionality trigger people "ohhh this is broken" type of stuff.

I agree with this too.... I think letting the polished product speak for itself. The price of the coin will take care of itself.

AlexGR

legendary

Activity: 1708

Merit: 1049

Quote from: Artoodeetoo on June 04, 2014, 06:13:06 PM

Quote from: AlexGR on June 04, 2014, 06:05:06 PM

Quote from: battbot on June 04, 2014, 05:25:49 PM

Quote from: AlexGR on June 04, 2014, 05:16:11 PM

Trust me when I say media attention is not really desirable while the "nodes-can-steal-money" issue remains.

Atcsecure already said dynamic trust system will prevent bad actors from stealing. Are you more or as qualified as him to present an argument opposing this? If so, let's hear it. Because all I've seen you do is offer up ungrounded "thesis statements" with no supporting arguments. Not trying to troll, but I'd like to see a solid argument of why you oppose atcsecures method. Until then, nothing you say holds any water.

Operative word: will.

Which means, as it is right now, with nodes being able to steal money, you don't want much attention because it can instantly snap the other way around to ...negative attention. Let's see the fix first...

You seem to spend most of your time on the DRK thread.. What a shock.. Apols in advance for giving you some competition.

I've given the exact same advice regarding DRK marketing in the past. Finish the product, market later. No need to have broken functionality trigger people "ohhh this is broken" type of stuff.

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