Xi, Putin wants Bitcoin without wanting Bitcoin - page 3.

oHnK

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Quote from: pooya87 on December 19, 2021, 09:02:54 AM

It is a bilateral relationship that started decades ago. Also keep in mind that the two countries are neighbors sharing a border. Bitcoin is definitely not the ONLY choice or even the best choice at this point (mainly due to high volatility) but I am certain that at least bitcoin was considered and I am fairly certain that it is one of the choices and it is being used today. One reason I have is that an emerging super power called Iran has strong relations with both nations with a huge trade volume between them and Iran has been using bitcoin under the radar for at least 3 years now.
Of course this is partly speculation but based on strong facts.

P.S. The transition from dollar (de-dollarisation) is happening. In 2015 90% of trades between China and Russia was done using USD while in 2020 it was only 40%. Russia is also significantly reducing their USD reserves.

If this decision is really agreed, it will lead to BTC, which was created from the start to be free from the centralization of any party. This new medium of exchange answers the challenge for those who are constrained by existing regulations and even get sanctions based on the interests of a group. The US is very powerful over its USD while other countries use it as a medium of exchange between countries. BTC has made it easy for the solution to their problem, if there was another way it would take more time.

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I've read that someone said satoshi came from the future and it's all proven lol. satoshi went a step further than xi and putin in creating a currency that was immune to third parties. xi and putin are actually really in awe of bitcoin it's just that they're embarrassed to show it lol.

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on December 18, 2021, 05:53:18 AM

Quote from: Pmalek on December 18, 2021, 05:04:54 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on December 18, 2021, 04:08:11 AM

It’s stupidity, Russia would need to trust China, and China would need to trust Russia. That’s a vulnerability. The Bitcoin network is there, open, permissionless, and ready to be used. The question must always be asked again, “How long should the protocol run to convince them”?

If both countries agree that the USA and the SWIFT system is the common enemy they want to fight against, it's easier for them to come to an understanding and establish some level of trust to benefit both sides. Remember the saying that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". I don't think it's a question of convincing them to use Bitcoin. It's probably not an option they see fit even if it was around for 50 years.

It’s not an option they see fit? Any competent thinker would know that Bitcoin is the best choice to do the job for what they want to do. It’s obviously, and clearly the ONLY choice they currently have. Although, it’s good for them to learn the hard way. They will conclude that Satoshi’s white paper is ground-breaking. Cool

It is a bilateral relationship that started decades ago. Also keep in mind that the two countries are neighbors sharing a border. Bitcoin is definitely not the ONLY choice or even the best choice at this point (mainly due to high volatility) but I am certain that at least bitcoin was considered and I am fairly certain that it is one of the choices and it is being used today. One reason I have is that an emerging super power called Iran has strong relations with both nations with a huge trade volume between them and Iran has been using bitcoin under the radar for at least 3 years now.
Of course this is partly speculation but based on strong facts.

P.S. The transition from dollar (de-dollarisation) is happening. In 2015 90% of trades between China and Russia was done using USD while in 2020 it was only 40%. Russia is also significantly reducing their USD reserves.

savetheFORUM

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Quote from: Pmalek on December 18, 2021, 03:38:33 AM

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on December 17, 2021, 05:01:06 PM

Funny thing that, unless you live in a totalitarian regime, it's the people you do not despise who voted for the politicians you despise... And that's absurd.

Not just in the Balkans, but in many parts of the world, people have this tendency to vote for jackasses or part-jackasses who become compete jackasses as their presidency keeps going. Even though it's the people that put them in power, many don't see the bigger picture, they get tricked trusting liars, and of course election manipulation will always be a thing.

This is just the truth and it happens everywhere. It’s just like what happened during the last two elections in my country. The people end there are voting in the wrong person, after that they all ended up regretting it. These politicians will come out and keep on pretending like they are going to be good when they are voted in, and some foolish people will believe dear sweet words I’m fake promises that they make during the time of elections. But, after that when they are finally sword in into power, they would start to do as it pleases them.

The current leaders in power in my country even rigged the last election that was supposed to put them out in power, and nobody is saying anything about that. At first the people who supported them were being warned that these people are bad, but some foolish people still voted for them. It’s really high time that people start to wise up.

dothebeats

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Just like what best buddies have, a secret handshake. Honestly whatever they develop in this bilateral agreement of theirs wouldn't really matter to the rest of the world. They just isolate themselves to the rest of the world without any clear advantage over other countries at all. This will be short-lived at best, and might even be a cause of conflict between the two countries if it proved to be unsuccessful in the end.

Let's see how the two communist bros handle this between themselves.

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on December 18, 2021, 04:08:11 AM

It’s stupidity, Russia would need to trust China, and China would need to trust Russia. That’s a vulnerability.

Exactly! Their so-called plan is doomed to fail.

Quote from: Wind_FURY on December 18, 2021, 04:08:11 AM

The question must always be asked again, “How long should the protocol run to convince them”?

For as long as it takes to replace the current set of people who have prominent positions in those countries and even if that happens, there's still "a big if ^{[especially for Russia]}"!

Quote from: Pmalek on December 18, 2021, 05:04:54 AM

establish some level of trust to benefit both sides.

Normally, that'd work but we're dealing with two countries that both either want full control or the better end of the deal.

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Quote from: Pmalek on December 18, 2021, 05:04:54 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on December 18, 2021, 04:08:11 AM

It’s stupidity, Russia would need to trust China, and China would need to trust Russia. That’s a vulnerability. The Bitcoin network is there, open, permissionless, and ready to be used. The question must always be asked again, “How long should the protocol run to convince them”?

If both countries agree that the USA and the SWIFT system is the common enemy they want to fight against, it's easier for them to come to an understanding and establish some level of trust to benefit both sides. Remember the saying that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". I don't think it's a question of convincing them to use Bitcoin. It's probably not an option they see fit even if it was around for 50 years.

It’s not an option they see fit? Any competent thinker would know that Bitcoin is the best choice to do the job for what they want to do. It’s obviously, and clearly the ONLY choice they currently have. Although, it’s good for them to learn the hard way. They will conclude that Satoshi’s white paper is ground-breaking. Cool

Pmalek

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on December 18, 2021, 04:08:11 AM

It’s stupidity, Russia would need to trust China, and China would need to trust Russia. That’s a vulnerability. The Bitcoin network is there, open, permissionless, and ready to be used. The question must always be asked again, “How long should the protocol run to convince them”?

If both countries agree that the USA and the SWIFT system is the common enemy they want to fight against, it's easier for them to come to an understanding and establish some level of trust to benefit both sides. Remember the saying that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". I don't think it's a question of convincing them to use Bitcoin. It's probably not an option they see fit even if it was around for 50 years.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: SFR10 on December 17, 2021, 07:14:21 AM

@Wind_FURY
I remember reading about a somewhat similar story concerning Russia and Iran a couple of years back, so I'm assuming that one didn't succeed and now they're trying to build version 2.0 with China in the picture! Let's assume for a second that they'd be using their own CBDCs ^{[or as you said, "Bitcoin without a Bitcoin"]} to trade with each other, I don't think that'll end with a different result since, at some point, one of them would probably want more control ^{[based on their true nature]} over the other one ^{[I don't think it's going to work in the long run]}.

Quote from: https://news.cgtn.com/news/2019-09-16/Why-Russia-and-Iran-are-ditching-the-dollar-K1Sy3yeIak/index.html
However, Russia and Iran are working together to ditch the dollar to weaken the effects of U.S. sanctions.

The two are working to develop a new financial transfer system to replace the U.S.-controlled SWIFT. This system would circumvent third country sanctions, Russian presidential adviser for international affairs Yuri Ushakov told the media.

"In order to protect bilateral trade and economic ties from third country sanctions, measures are taken on the expansion of direct payments, the use of national currencies, the improvement interactions between the Russian financial transfers system and the Iranian Sepam, as an alternative for payments to SWIFT," said Ushakov.

It’s stupidity, Russia would need to trust China, and China would need to trust Russia. That’s a vulnerability. The Bitcoin network is there, open, permissionless, and ready to be used. The question must always be asked again, “How long should the protocol run to convince them”?

Pmalek

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on December 17, 2021, 05:01:06 PM

Funny thing that, unless you live in a totalitarian regime, it's the people you do not despise who voted for the politicians you despise... And that's absurd.

Not just in the Balkans, but in many parts of the world, people have this tendency to vote for jackasses or part-jackasses who become compete jackasses as their presidency keeps going. Even though it's the people that put them in power, many don't see the bigger picture, they get tricked trusting liars, and of course election manipulation will always be a thing.

Quote from: Artemis3 on December 17, 2021, 10:50:07 PM

You seem awfully optimistic regarding the outcome. Nothing wrong with that. However, I don't see the governments of the world giving up that easily if they start getting rolled over with Bitcoin and crypto.

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No, they don't want bitcoin, they want digital fiat, which is garbage.

What politicians fear? Losing control. What bitcoiners want? to kick out those politicians from manipulating their money. There cannot be a compromise, its either free (as in freedom) or its not.

This struggle is only beginning, but victory is in our side, we will free ourselves from them, with or without their cooperation.

To me those old fools are trying to return the genie into the bottle. It is too late, they cannot undo bitcoin, and they cannot have their world without bitcoin again.

Fear it all you want, and have all central banks of the world spread FUD, this means we are succeeding, and they are afraid, because they have become obsolete.

El Salvador won't be the last, and they are fearing this the most. The future is here, and they are the past. If the USD collapses from its continued mis-management, it will just accelerate the inevitable, people will want bitcoin, no matter what those in power do, even in China, or those 15 oppressive countries that dared forbid bitcoin. Let them see their neighbors prosper while they sink in poverty, see how long they keep their anti bitcoin attitude.

Time is in our side, there is no turning back.

GeorgeJohn

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These communists have several layers of rank. It's like the Presidents wants to be better than the people.

I got my 420 joint. I am happy now.

I don't understand really what you are deriving at, because i don't really understand your objectives and the areas of concentration towards the thread above, please don't see it as an attack, i just said it because i want to know your concept,the response you portray doesn't match with what i read above as i stipulated before.

Slow death

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who expects something good from russia and china? I'm saying something good in terms of democracy, freedom that are basic things for bitcoin to survive in this place. The Russian and Chinese political system is a system where they will always see bitcoin as the enemy, if they create something together they can be sure it won't be something to give freedom and democracy to their people, it's more like: " let's create something to have more control of everything "

BlackHatCoiner

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Let the emperors decide what's better for their human beings. Don't dabble with their “business”. Roll Eyes

Quote from: Pmalek on December 17, 2021, 06:16:07 AM

I despise my own country's government, but not my country and its people.

Funny thing that, unless you live in a totalitarian regime, it's the people you do not despise who voted for the politicians you despise... And that's absurd.

Quote from: pushups44 on December 17, 2021, 02:18:59 PM

Authoritarian countries are in a bind because by ignoring bitcoin, they risk falling behind technologically and impoverishing their citizens.

The block chain technology isn't known for improving the world technological-wise. It's known for allowing the people to choose freely what they want which is definitely the last thing in Russia's and China's checklist.

pushups44

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Authoritarian countries are in a bind because by ignoring bitcoin, they risk falling behind technologically and impoverishing their citizens. On the other hand, it's likely these countries will be accumulating bitcoin at some point, since it will likely become a national security issue. As time passes these issues will become clearer.

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Quote from: kryptqnick on December 16, 2021, 04:58:12 AM

At first, I wasn't sure if the news were legit, but I found articles on Russian news websites about it, so it seems like the talk actually happened. They want an infrastructure that won't be under control of third countries, but there's a big potential difference from Bitcoin: there's nothing there about the financial infrastructure being independent altogether. Bitcoin's not under control of the US, but it's not under control of China or Russia either. I believe this is not desirable for Putin and Xi, as they'd prefer a centralized currency that would be under their mutual control. That being said, it might be very hard to achieve, so they might settle on something like Bitcoin as good enough.

I severely doubt that they would consider using any public network for value transfers. Beyond the fact that they prefer their trade activity not to be under control by third parties, they might also want their transactions to stay anonymous. It will definitely not be a currency or financial infrastructure as independent as and hence will still be prone to attacks from outsiders. It's going to be exciting to see what they are coming up with (if we ever find out).

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@Pmalek there could have been 10 million casualties, but for the average US or UK politician this is no tragedy, because human life is not worth the same in the US or Iraq, it is at least clear to everyone. The insensitivity of people like Madeleine Albright, who said that as many as 500 000 Iraqi children who died as a result of the imposed sanctions were a reasonable price to pay for their goal. A person or government that directly or indirectly kills even one innocent child to achieve their goal is a monster, and what about people who are willing to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of children to achieve their interests.

Quote from: https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2013/10/21/the-deep-roots-beneath-1000000-dead-iraqis

The scene is painful to anyone concerned about the long-range impact of the first US-Iraq war in 1991. Then US Ambassador to the United Nations Madeleine Albright was asked by 60 Minutes correspondent Leslie Stahl if the sanctions imposed on Iraq after the 1991 war, which according to UN estimates had led to the deaths of upwards of half a million children, were “worth it.” “I think this is a very hard choice but the price we think, the price was worth it,” was Albright’s now infamous reply. Well, perhaps not to everyone; despite her shocking candour, she was promoted by President Clinton to Secretary of State a few months later.

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Quote from: stompix on December 17, 2021, 06:35:24 AM

I remember I asked you for a source about the 1 million poeple that died in US aerial bombardments, not about anything else,

Not in the bombardments alone, but the whole regime-changing conflict and war.
There are various stats by different organizations in this document. Here are some parts where it's mentioned that 1 million people have died as casualties of war.

Quote

This investigation comes to the conclusion that the war has, directly or indirectly, killed around 1 million people in Iraq, 220,000 in Afghanistan and 80,000 in Pakistan, i.e. a total of around 1.3 million.
...
The total number of deaths in the three countries named above could also be in excess of 2 million, whereas a figure below 1 million is extremely unlikely"

Quote

Representative Studies Provide an Estimate of Up To 1 Million
Conversely, results from statistical surveys conducted by the Johns Hopkins University, published in 2004 and 2006 in the medical journal The Lancet, as well as by the British polling institute Opinion Research Business (ORB) in 2007 suggest that already by 2008 over one million Iraqis had died as a result of war, occupation and their indirect consequences.

Quote

Taking the time period of the Lancet study, the confidence intervals are overlapping over a wide range. While the numbers provided by the PLOS study appear to be too low, those of the Lancet study can be deemed a bit too high. Therefore, the number of roughly one million victims for the time period until the December 2011 U.S. troop withdrawal unfortunately remains realistic.

Quote

The ORB study did not have the same quality as the Lancet studies, however, since their results agree well the estimated number of 1,033,000 fatalities seems plausible. The number of casualties may thus have had exceeded one million already by mid - 2007.

* All quotes have been copied from the source linked to above (https://www.psr.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/body-count.pdf).

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Quote from: pooya87 on December 17, 2021, 07:44:24 AM

They don't have to denounce their citizenship to go back! They become dual citizens. Considering majority of them are living on minimum wage in the most expensive and racist country in the whole world it is not really a surprise that many of them want to go back and some can gather enough money for a plane ticket home.

Yeah right..
And they hate the US so much they keep their citizenship so they can still be liable for taxes in the US.

))
It makes perfect logic!

Quote from: pooya87 on December 17, 2021, 07:44:24 AM

I'd say the ban that exists in US that prevents people from using their bank account, debit or credit cards to buy bitcoin is more serious than this news.

Please do tell more abut this Bitcoin ban that is happening in the US, it must be so serious and so dangerous that it almost prevented the US from completely dominating every aspect of Bitcoin's economy from ATMs, Nodes, LN changes, companies buying bitcoin, investment funds, hashrate, ...everything! Are you FUDing or what's the purpose of this for making stuff up?
Deal with it, there's only one country that counts, and that is the US, and it's going to be like this for a long long time!

Quote from: pooya87 on December 17, 2021, 07:44:24 AM

You are starting to sound very American, sorry I mean racist Cheesy

So when you can't make more stuff up to express god knows what point you want you resort to this kind of shit?

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Quote from: stompix on December 17, 2021, 06:35:24 AM

Yeah, an alliance that includes China and India, there is sooo much cooperation between those I can't hold my emotions and my tears thinking of the great things that will come from it. When I see that it has also have Pakistan in it alongside India I'm just perplexed it even works...

You are starting to sound very American, sorry I mean racist Cheesy

Quote

5000 poeple denounced their US citizenship compared to 22 million applications alone a year.

They don't have to denounce their citizenship to go back! They become dual citizens. Considering majority of them are living on minimum wage in the most expensive and racist country in the whole world it is not really a surprise that many of them want to go back and some can gather enough money for a plane ticket home.

Quote

https://cbr.ru/press/event/?id=12526
This is not "the media" and it's nothing uncertain and doubtful about it.

Except that it has nothing to do with "a complete ban on future crypto investments in the country" as the fake article puts it. It is a proposal that mutual funds be invested in assets that are recommended by the proposal and avoid putting it in cryptocurrencies.
I'd say the ban that exists in US that prevents people from using their bank account, debit or credit cards to buy bitcoin is more serious than this news.

Topic: Xi, Putin wants Bitcoin without wanting Bitcoin - page 3. (Read 747 times)