Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 2052. (Read 3314350 times)

Not sure how "valuable" fragments of data would be when masternode blinding rolls out and spreads inputs across numerous masternodes instead of each round flowing through one node entirely (granted, probabilities still are on the low side of being selected each round to gain meaningful analysis). And yes, the only person you can ever really trust is yourself.

How Darkcoin handled the insta/acidental/fast mine is exactly how they handle anonymity. Go ahead without any forethought, and when they get flak (dear god when it is your broken privacy), work around it until you get to the next bump in the road--and if anyone says anything about yesterday, respond, "They're living the whole way back in June, get with the times, dude."


We should stop helping them out by pointing out flaws. Let them see them when they see them.

Somewhat agree, but I also believe that in a mature state, masternodes (and most of the other intermediary forms I listed) will routinely collect and share data, because the data is valuable both commercially and to governments. The political and market forces dictate that. There is no mechanism to even deter it in fact.

The only person you can ever really trust with a secret is yourself.

I have zero sympathy here. Those who choose propriety DRM and malware infected operating systems sold licensed by large multinational monopolies such as Microsoft and Apple need to learn that by their choice of operating systems they are cutting themselves off from many extremely profitable opportunities. This is especially the case when dealing with crypto - currencies that by their very nature rely on FLOSS and computing devices under their owner's sole control for their security. My own personal experience was purchasing XBT in the 2 -6 USD range in late 2011/2012. Many of those XBT were subsequently sold at an 10000% profit for XMR after Apple gave the iSheep permission to purchase XBT. I am a strong critic of DRK and believe the coin is fundamentally flawed at a structural level; however one thing the DRK developers got right is releasing the mining software on GNU/Linux ahead of Microsoft Windows. There are many valid security reasons why one would do that. Furthermore this also sends a clear message that if one wants privacy one should not be using DRM and malware infected propriety operating systems, where the vendors have, in addition to the DRM and malware risk, made data sharing arrangements with multiple national spy agencies.

Very true. I was simply making the point as it is out-of-box. You can always take more measures if you need more added privacy. The far more probable scenario in either coin's usage is the trails outside of the currency anyway leading to compromised anonymity.

Nothing prevents people from adding off-chain privacy to Monero. You can do this now by moving coins through exchanges, gambling sites, or other existing intermediaries,  and people can create dedicated centralized or decentralized mixing services if the want (all of these may keep records or be compromised, but so may masternodes) You can easily add off-chain privacy to a coin with on-chain but not vice versa.

Point 1 is true that DRK's privacy functions on the backbone of the masternode network, but even if the network were compromised tomorrow, all previous transactions would remain anonymous. Correct me if I am wrong, but if by some act of god (and excluding the ramifications of hash security not only on a mining level but on all systems secured by SHA256 being compromised), cryptonote was broken, all tx's (past, present, future) would be linked. It's a choice between on chain or off chain privacy.

My belief in XMR's long term success over darkcoin has more to do with the coin's fundamentals than any perceived scamminess in DRK.

- Monero has zero dependencies. Regardless of a masternode's "vulnerability", DRK still depends on them to ensure privacy. XMR works out of the box. Just use the coin.

- Monero is not a Proof of Stake currency. Even Ethereum's Vitalik Buterin admits that a secure PoS system is somewhat of a unicorn, though eventually achievable. Even if it is achieved, I don't believe PoS assets can ever be valued on a massive scale and remain decentralized (see the first law of thermodynamics).

- Monero's blockchain is opaque. You cannot see the contents or transaction history of my (or anyone's) address, even if I make it public. This is not the case for Bitcoin derived alts.

You dont see drk devs addressing any of the gaping drk issues in any thread, there is no effort going there unless its some slick marketing term to be used as baiting. I got first into anon with drk and I soon noticed how I was being tricked into a futile crypto game already past its time (aka scam), the emission was changed and the price was(still) ridiculously pumped, I'm yet to find something better than xmr, that is technologically sound and does not try to scam me with its instamine/emission tricks.

edit: before anyone says anything about the mining issue, I dont care if monero is botnet mined, mining software evolves with time and the coins are heavily dumped into the market anyway, what I care is why I got into crypto: rules, the emission is the most important aspect and what solidifies bitcoin and others as a better economic model, I will never trust a coin like drk that change its rules as it pleases to unethically enrich the developers and associates, by "mistake" or not.

I find the bitching about DRK's fastmine/instamine to be petty. Yes it happened. Don't like it, don't invest. I think DRK will see success regardless, because most people couldn't care less about a fastmine. And if it does see success, going around and bitching about the fastmine makes you an envious loser. In the end, I will support whoever has the best solution. Monero has an awesome team behind it, so who knows.

Again, what is your point? Where did I say there wasn't one? It hasn't been hidden, it's a well known part of the history of the coin. I guess when you run out of shit to talk about, bring it back up. Why not, right? And why does it always have to turn into a pissing match between DRK and XMR? I only discuss it when others start posting shoddy info, otherwise, I respect the on-topic discussion.

Smooth: Yeah, and that's not even scratching the surface when you start factoring in all the dead/dying coins.

If the implication is that releasing the mining software on GNU/Linux ahead of Microsoft Windows converts an instamine into a premine the answer is most emphatically NO.

Monero

    type of algorithm: CryptoNight

    PoW only

Monero is a coin with a rather curious basis, CryptoNote, of which you can read about here 161). The minor details we won't get into, however the mining details we will. Monero proposes a system where the block generation does not have a halving scheme whatsoever. Rather, the coins generated begin to diminish over time according to a formula.

Looking at their blockchain shows good things. The first few blocks reveal around 17.59 MRO being created.

    block 1: 17.59 MRO 2014-04-18 10:49:53

    block 1000: 17.57 MRO 2014-04-18 10:49:53
    block 2000: 17.55 MRO 2014-04-19 01:42:08
    block 3000: 17.54 MRO 2014-04-19 21:21:11
    block 4000: 17.52 MRO 2014-04-20 10:16:26
    block 5000: 17.50 MRO 2014-04-21 01:44:45
    block 6000: 17.49 MRO 2014-04-21 18:23:27
    block 7000: 17.47 MRO 2014-04-22 07:04:14
    block 8000: 17.45 MRO 2014-04-23 00:07:23
    block 9000: 17.44 MRO 2014-04-23 15:45:54
    block 10000: 17.42 MRO 2014-04-24 08:17:44

    block 15000: 17.34 MRO 2014-04-28 08:41:15
    block 20000: 17.26 MRO 2014-05-01 18:48:17
    block 25000: 17.18 MRO 2014-05-05 00:51:23
    block 30000: 17.09 MRO 2014-05-08 06:04:09
    block 35000: 17.01 MRO 2014-05-11 13:29:44
    block 40000: 16.93 MRO 2014-05-14 22:51:54
    block 45000: 16.85 MRO 2014-05-18 05:25:23

On paper this seems like a great plan, but when this plays out to its logical conclusion, Monero will effectively mine out a lot of their currency relatively fast. As you can see from the mining data posted here, within one month the number of Monero generated decreased from 17.59 MRO to 16.85 MRO, a decrease of .76 MRO in a month. Obviously, there is a formula that determines the amount of MRO created and we shouldn't assume a purely linear relationship from here.

Indeed, the bitcointalk thread provides a graph that spells out the dirty details. The currency, using the formula Block reward = (M - A) * 2-20 * 10-12, will produce 15.48 million out of the total possible 18 million Monero in only 4 years 162).

On one hand, a 4 year plan to produce 85% of the currency is waaaay better than 90% of the coins on this investigation. In comparison to bitcoin, we see that from its inception from January of 2009 to today, May of 2014 (roughly 5.5 years), bitcoin has produced around 60% of its expected coin totals 163). In that sense, Monero isn't too much of a divergence.

There are no instantmines or premines in Monero. The smooth block subsidy scheme could be a little bit more tapered towards a slower distribution than it is, but ultimately this coin passes the smell test.

It would be YES if there were 500 coins per block during the first few hours while the mining software was restricted to the very small pool of Linux users.

oh wait...Did I just describe something?

To quote from your link:

Orly? http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=a_massive_investigation_of_instamines_and_fastmines_for_the_top_alt_coins

What's The Problem With Soft Instamines ("fastmines")?
Hopefully one can see after reading this article that coins like Novacoin, Goldcoin, Blackcoin, Darkcoin, etc are obviously bad investments. (Hold your comments until reading the entire article, please). The amount of coins mined in the beginning is just too advantageous of those fortunate few who got the easy money. But what about the questionable mining…that aren't quite an instant mine but are not a slow mine, either?

.............

Darkcoin
derived from Quark
type of algorithm: blake, bmw, groestl, keccak, jh, stein
PoW and PoS
The following data and time stamps were collected from the Darkcoin blockchain 37).

Block 1: 2014-01-19 Time: 3:54:41
Block 1000 : 2014-01-19 Time: 4:33:39
Block 2000: 2014-01-19 Time: 06:25:47
Block 3000: 2014-01-19 Time: 09:10:16
Block 3250: 2014-01-19 Time: 11:22:11
Looking at this data, we see that Darkcoin was mined with 500 DRK generated per block from the get go. From block 1 to at least block 3250, according to their blockchain, they were still producing 500 coins each block. The transition from 500 to 277 coins per block occurs between 3250 and 3500 but this author did not see the necessity of getting the exact moment of halving. Simple math shows that 3250 blocks multiplied by 500 coins a block is 1,625,000 Darkcoins created between the times of 3:54 and 11:22 on January 19th, 2014. As of today there are around 4,300,000 DRK in existence, making this a pretty hefty instamine. The Darkcoin website expects around 22,000,000 DRK to be created. That means in less than 8 hours, almost 5% of the Darkcoins that ever will be created spawned in that 1/3 of a day. It's safe to say Darkcoin has left it's investors in the dark on this one.