Topic: [XMR] The Monero BEAR thread. (Read 2952 times)

Do you think we will go su 0.0015 this year?

Excellent observation. 

~TcN~

Yes I do and routinely see people complaining about how it takes a week for them to host any kind of node and the costs of running it, this is why I am not hosting a Bitcoin node myself.


Yes and when it can and is being done then I will happily invest in it.


Yes, and I have been against Proof of Work since I have been a part of Bitcointalk because it's wasteful and drains investment. Bitcoin, LiteCoin and DogeCoin are only secure by it because they have been entrenched so long but does nothing for price and if they were Proof of Stake, everyone would be much better off. If I wanted Coins I would not buy a miner and hope for ROI, I would just buy and trade Coins.

And, in a market as illiquid as Poloniex XMR, the whale you borrowed the 10k XMR to short with at 0.002 could place a 10k sell wall at 0.0025 (a Polo insider could calc the exact optimal number) and buy all the coins up to his 0.0025 sell wall and force you to close your short and buy the whales 10k coins at 0.0025. This is probably why some people try to get you to short it.

Monero is a VERY good coin!  (lol)

~CfA~

A general PSA about short-selling: Short selling is profoundly different than ordinary cash investing. With the latter, you can buy on solid fundamentals and wait for the value to be recognized by the market. Taking this approach as a short-seller is a time-proven way to have your head handed to you. Case in point: back in tha day, my dad saw a hyped-up company and correctly figured out it was riding for a hard fall. He shorted it at ~$8. In the long term, he was absolutely right: it did fall hard. But in the interim, that piece o' garbage got hyped up to >$30 and my dad closed his short with a loss.

Short selling is far more of a trader's game than an investor's game: timing the short sale is crucial. If you short-sell based on lousy fundamentals, you will learn the meaning of the old Irish saying, "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished."

That said, I'm more of a Monero bull than a Monero bear - particularly at these prices. I'm writing this PSA to pass along some hard-knock wisdom which applies to short selling in general. PSA out.

Bitcoin is growing at >2 GB per month so if Monero had the same volume it would grow faster, but only by a small factor (maybe 2-3). Apparently, though, you think 1-2 GB per month is unacceptable so Bitcoin must be a failure in your view.


Pruning does not reduce the size of the blockchain, only the amount that needs to be stored, unless you throw away information needed to verify it that the blockchain is actually valid. Similar storage optimizations can be done with Monero as well.


So let me get this straight. The 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th largest coins are all PoW (I'm not counting ripple since I don't really consider it a cryptocurrency, but in any case it isn't PoS), yet somehow you've decided you know better than the market and we all need to switch to PoS. Wonderful.

I am using webwallet called Mymonero so I do not need to care about the blockchain issues.
When the price pumps and if it goes to bubble, then probably shorting pays you nicely. Honestly I don't think Monero will go much lower from here (it can do it but every day the bottom formation is stronger and stronger). It basically has only one way and it is up.
I am not a permabull guy - I am bull when I see there is higher chances that the price goes up than it goes down. When the situation is the opposite, I change my opinion. Being anything perma is stupid IMO.

Actually it doesn't becomes bigger because it's POW and mining becomes more expensive as more people mine it so you not only have the sell pressure from miners but the ridiculously large Blockchain which you also have to store and pay for. The Monero Blockchain at 3 GB is the second largest Blockchain besides Bitcoin, if it had the same amount of volume, the size would grow at 1-2 GB a month. How about instead of sepnding time spreading useless spam about nothing and no advancement and only go on and on about Dash, that you guys spend some time and figure out how to make the Blockchain permanently under 100 MB via pruning and Proof of Stake, if you guys can do that then I'll rejoice along side you and buy but until then I'm going to wait until price hits maximum velocity and then short it because you can't have a perma-bull in these conditions.

We are basically challenging your view.
If you think Monero sucks and becomes worthless, pretty much the only thing you can make money out of it is shorting it.
Margin calls come if you are wrong and the price starts to rise. But if you are sure enough, you short even more. 

Yes, this is the best way to lose money becomes Monero is not worthless and will not become worthless but grow bigger and bigger every day.

You might want to ask Peter Todd or Greg Maxwell about what they think about the "cryptography" behind your masternodes or instant transactions.

Hint: https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/622022840330682368

Are you saying Monero is a scam?

If you are, why don't you try shorting it?

Chicken?   

It shows me they are mere trolls who pathetically tries to manipulate Monero's price down with their mouths but the coin price is stable and has a nice bottom formation on the charts.
Last time the bottom was formed around 0.001 for some time and then it started a bull run that took us straight to low 0.004's and now looks the bottom is slightly below 0.002 (around 0.0019 - give or take).
When the multichannel marketing kicks in, the price is explosive.

Strange that none of the bears in this thread have the guts to openly take a short position

Easier to talk trash than put your BTC where your mouth is I guess

Nobody. 

The actual size of the blockchain was roughly 2.7 GB on May 22 of this year which is about 13 months after launch. Confusion arises because the original code stores the blockchain in a very inefficient format, with a lot of duplicated information. In addition, for a few months last year there was a poor design in the pool code which created a huge number of tiny payout transactions, bloating the chain, and there was also at least one spam attack when the default transaction fees were unrealistically low. Both of these are not ongoing issues so the actual rate of growth is significantly lower.


Mymonero has nothing to do with mining.

It is true that the bigger the blockchain the less likely it is that people will run nodes. Possibly offsetting that, people can never achieve the highest levels of privacy by using something like MyMonero or a foreign node, so the nature of the coin being one that exists to provide privacy, this may motivate more of at least the serious users to run their own nodes.

We've also done a fair amount of work to enable nodes to work well on very inexpensive hardware. An always-on node can probable be had for <$100 with negligible power use, although with fewer performance compromises if you spend maybe $150. I don't think storage is going to be a major obstacle any time soon given the above numbers and the cheap cost of 32 GB or 64 GB flash cards. I just checked and you can now buy a 64 GB card for $12.

This is true in many respects and can be beneficial in many ways but should atleast be funny so if there are two parties calling each other fuckwits, retards and idiots it makes me want to take my business elsewhere.


It was mentioned early on about the very large size growth yearly from the Cryptonote Coins (multi-gigabytes per year), and if I remember correctly the growth of Monero was something like 6 GB a year (a correct figure would be nice). Such large growth per year centralizes the mining and the majority of the mining tends to happen through Mymonero as a result and if you have a Blockchain with more than 10GB of data then people do not bother to host nodes for it or local wallets. It is more anonymous with ring signatures but much more centralized because the majority are going to use their wallets through Mymonero, that increases rick and a central point of failure. There was mention of wanting to do pruning of the Blockchain in the original whitepaper but to date there has not been anything of the sort. In short, if Monero was as widely used as Bitcoin, the growth of the Blockchain would be completely unsustainable growing multi-gigabytes in size a month.

Does Monero have electrum wallets? What are it's key strengths besides ring signatures and it's emission curve?

Just watch the XMR loan interest rate continue to skyrocket. Oh wait...

All hot air.

It took Dash from +12% to barely green, but then Duffman put out a pumpy PR and I got GTFO.

Anyway, this is the XMR bear thread, so who is going to short XMR and report back on their results?

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