Topic: [$XVG] VERGE [POW][MultiAlgo][TOR/i2P][no premine/ico!] - page 546. (Read 843765 times)
by halving the time and reward, and our new multi algo system, i believe this will help with distribution. many will hold, many will dump. we will just have to wait and see what happens.
right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.
this give us the same exact inflation main problem is inflation as it is. maybe keep de 10 seconds 520 xvg option in the new poll?! In the last poll 70% wanted less inflation smoother blocks.
you cant just change the amount of coins though, without pissing off the portion of the community that isnt sitting on tens of millions of coins, and wants to mine and get more before halvings. i honestly cant think of anything that would be more unfair..
edit: thought of something even more unfair, also adding PoS, so baghodlers get even richer.
From reading the last posts I tend to go with 30 second block and I tend to agree with smoothing inflation. I don't see many people pissed off dev and smoothing inflation as everybody is calling is indeed very interesting. I vote for it too.
i see no issue with reducing block time, and altering the reward to fit it, so 15 seconds, 6,250, instead of right now having 30 seconds, 12,500.
i will not reduce or increase the overall amount of coins. that would be unfair. the idea of changing it to 30 seconds (staying the same as it is now) and 500 coins per block a reduction by over 11,000 coins), does in fact change the specs, and too much, in my opinion.
ive posted the options im willing to go with, halving the block time and halving the reward, and keeping it the same.
i like the idea of 15 second blocks and halving the reward, because this allows for faster transactions. block size will not be a worry, especially if we have blocks being produced faster, because we've already had blocks with thousands of transactions in them, and they were fine.
edit: to sum it up, i am not concerned with trying to make the price of xvg go up by changing the emission. that seems unfair and i am not willing to cooperate on that, sorry. we got to where we are as it is, and we will continue the way it is. that is why the only option im considering is halving the time and reward.
i will not reduce or increase the overall amount of coins. that would be unfair. the idea of changing it to 30 seconds (staying the same as it is now) and 500 coins per block a reduction by over 11,000 coins), does in fact change the specs, and too much, in my opinion.
ive posted the options im willing to go with, halving the block time and halving the reward, and keeping it the same.
i like the idea of 15 second blocks and halving the reward, because this allows for faster transactions. block size will not be a worry, especially if we have blocks being produced faster, because we've already had blocks with thousands of transactions in them, and they were fine.
edit: to sum it up, i am not concerned with trying to make the price of xvg go up by changing the emission. that seems unfair and i am not willing to cooperate on that, sorry. we got to where we are as it is, and we will continue the way it is. that is why the only option im considering is halving the time and reward.
right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.
Cool, you understand exactly what I'm getting at. You might consider 12'500 coins is divisible by 5, and so is 30 sec. 
6 sec block time 2,500 reward is clean, but so is 15 sec and 6,250 reward. Just post one though or votes would get split.
A 15 second block time would probably be OK at this point, however, imagine that suddenly there was suddenly a lot of interest in the coin, and blocks started filling up to be 100 or 200 kB - I think with a 15 s block time you would probably start inducing a shit ton of orphans due to the non-zero propagation time of non-zero sized blocks. Not that this is an immediate issue, but even with 30 s target time you would probably get lots of orphans if the blocks were getting filled at all. My vote is to leave target time at 30 s.
right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.
this give us the same exact inflation main problem is inflation as it is. maybe keep de 10 seconds 520 xvg option in the new poll?! In the last poll 70% wanted less inflation smoother blocks.
you cant just change the amount of coins though, without pissing off the portion of the community that isnt sitting on tens of millions of coins, and wants to mine and get more before halvings. i honestly cant think of anything that would be more unfair..
edit: thought of something even more unfair, also adding PoS, so baghodlers get even richer.
I can not agree by any means that by the will of a single miner who is complaining you pulled the poll when most were happy and 70% already asked for smoother inflation.
ok you seem to be one man army here against improving the coin. let's see if dev gives back the community the chance to decide what it wants. I'm not going to argue with you no more.
right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.
this give us the same exact inflation main problem is inflation as it is. maybe keep de 10 seconds 520 xvg option in the new poll?! In the last poll 70% wanted less inflation smoother blocks.
you cant just change the amount of coins though, without pissing off the portion of the community that isnt sitting on tens of millions of coins, and wants to mine and get more before halvings. i honestly cant think of anything that would be more unfair..
edit: thought of something even more unfair, also adding PoS, so baghodlers get even richer.
you are not changing the amount of coins that will be mined you are smoothing the total coins per block adding more future blocks. I think the only people that will be pissed is a handful of miners who are not exactly thinking as a community. You can run a poll with these options and let the community decide as you saw 70% voted for smoother inflation.
Stealing whom? Please elaborate. The number of coins will not be reduced or increased and everyone who has coins will continue to have their coins. I don't see anyone else objecting smoothing inflation.
This is the point of Satoshi making Bitcoin a fixed rate of supply increase. Changing supply changes how people will invest in that resource.
It also sets the precedent that it may be changed on some other future whim arbitrarily. This goes against the principles Bitcoin was built upon.
Stealing is subjective and so is coin supply, apparently, since no one has said they wanted wanted reduction in overall supply of Verge, I thought. I believe we were talking about a reduction in reward, "smoothing" even you, frankly, if I am correct. My assumption that the block halves based on block numbers, not coins.... To that end, I am going by blockexperts current block number which says that there are 297724 and the next halving occurs at block 378,000
Original Block times
80276 left before the halving with 30 second block times. That is roughly 2880 blocks a day which equals 28 days of mining give or take a few days. Total coins to be mined before the next halving 2880x12500x28=1008000000
15 second block times
80276 left before the halving with 15 second block times. That is roughly 5760 blocks a day which equals 14 days of mining give or take a few days. Total coins to be mined before the next halving 5760x6250x14=504000000
5 second block times, your proposal, I think.
80276 left before the halving with 5 second block times. That is roughly 14400 blocks a day which equals 6 days of mining give or take a few days. Total coins to be mined before the next halving 14400x2500x6=216000000
Granted, I know that you probably mean that you wanted to adjust the block halving numbers to make your idea consistent with Satoshi and not reduce the rewards sooner...and such....
right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.
this give us the same exact inflation main problem is inflation as it is. maybe keep de 10 seconds 520 xvg option in the new poll?! In the last poll 70% wanted less inflation smoother blocks.
you cant just change the amount of coins though, without pissing off the portion of the community that isnt sitting on tens of millions of coins, and wants to mine and get more before halvings. i honestly cant think of anything that would be more unfair..
edit: thought of something even more unfair, also adding PoS, so baghodlers get even richer.
I can not agree by any means that by the will of a single miner who is complaining you pulled the poll when most were happy and 70% already asked for smoother inflation.
right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.
this give us the same exact inflation main problem is inflation as it is. maybe keep de 10 seconds 520 xvg option in the new poll?! In the last poll 70% wanted less inflation smoother blocks.
you cant just change the amount of coins though, without pissing off the portion of the community that isnt sitting on tens of millions of coins, and wants to mine and get more before halvings. i honestly cant think of anything that would be more unfair..
edit: thought of something even more unfair, also adding PoS, so baghodlers get even richer.
you are not changing the amount of coins that will be mined you are smoothing the total coins per block adding more future blocks. I think the only people that will be pissed is a handful of miners who are not exactly thinking as a community. You can run a poll with these options and let the community decide as you saw 70% voted for smoother inflation.
Stealing whom? Please elaborate. The number of coins will not be reduced or increased and everyone who has coins will continue to have their coins. I don't see anyone else objecting smoothing inflation.
That's exactly what I guessed!
Are we looking here the interest of a few miners and miners only? Is this what is becoming??? Which btw are free to mine any coin and overlook an entire community??? Btw you also opposed a name change to the coin not sure I assume you mine wait the highs and sell over and over again.
right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.
this give us the same exact inflation main problem is inflation as it is. maybe keep de 10 seconds 520 xvg option in the new poll?! In the last poll 70% wanted less inflation smoother blocks.
you cant just change the amount of coins though, without pissing off the portion of the community that isnt sitting on tens of millions of coins, and wants to mine and get more before halvings. i honestly cant think of anything that would be more unfair..
edit: thought of something even more unfair, also adding PoS, so baghodlers get even richer.
you are not changing the amount of coins that will be mined you are smoothing the total coins per block adding more future blocks. I think the only people that will be pissed is a handful of miners who are not exactly thinking as a community. You can run a poll with these options and let the community decide as you saw 70% voted for smoother inflation.
Stealing whom? Please elaborate. The number of coins will not be reduced or increased and everyone who has coins will continue to have their coins. I don't see anyone else objecting smoothing inflation.
right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.
this give us the same exact inflation main problem is inflation as it is. maybe keep de 10 seconds 520 xvg option in the new poll?! In the last poll 70% wanted less inflation smoother blocks.
you cant just change the amount of coins though, without pissing off the portion of the community that isnt sitting on tens of millions of coins, and wants to mine and get more before halvings. i honestly cant think of anything that would be more unfair..
edit: thought of something even more unfair, also adding PoS, so baghodlers get even richer.
you are not changing the amount of coins that will be mined you are smoothing the total coins per block adding more future blocks. I think the only people that will be pissed is a handful of miners who are not exactly thinking as a community. You can run a poll with these options and let the community decide as you saw 70% voted for smoother inflation.
Dev I agree with this post coins will remain the same amount the first poll had all options possible not sure why you removed it.
right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.
this give us the same exact inflation main problem is inflation as it is. maybe keep de 10 seconds 520 xvg option in the new poll?! In the last poll 70% wanted less inflation smoother blocks.
you cant just change the amount of coins though, without pissing off the portion of the community that isnt sitting on tens of millions of coins, and wants to mine and get more before halvings. i honestly cant think of anything that would be more unfair..
edit: thought of something even more unfair, also adding PoS, so baghodlers get even richer.
you are not changing the amount of coins that will be mined you are smoothing the total coins per block adding more future blocks. I think the only people that will be pissed is a handful of miners who are not exactly thinking as a community. You can run a poll with these options and let the community decide as you saw 70% voted for smoother inflation.
right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.
this give us the same exact inflation main problem is inflation as it is. maybe keep de 10 seconds 520 xvg option in the new poll?! In the last poll 70% wanted less inflation smoother blocks.
you cant just change the amount of coins though, without pissing off the portion of the community that isnt sitting on tens of millions of coins, and wants to mine and get more before halvings. i honestly cant think of anything that would be more unfair..
edit: thought of something even more unfair, also adding PoS, so baghodlers get even richer.
right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.
this give us the same exact inflation main problem is inflation as it is. maybe keep de 10 seconds 520 xvg option in the new poll?! In the last poll 70% wanted less inflation smoother blocks.
p.s. 5 secs blocks are even better (260 xvg per block)
right now, in our specs, its 30 seconds, 12,500 xvg per block. of course, difficulty affects this greatly. which is why no coin has exact timing specs actually occuring. i could see keeping the reward schedule identical, but changing the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, however 12,500 isnt divisible by 3. you'd get 4166.666666666667 which just doesnt work. however, 15 seconds, with 6,250 does work. ill add that to the poll, reset, and see how it fairs.
The idea that this is even being considered is troubling. Only if it is exactly proportional enabling shorter block times; not to change inflationary pressures. This is one thing that kills coins and deserves a load of bad feedback on Twitter if not proportionally implemented to reflect the current block time schedule.
I don't think you got it properly the final amount of coins will be exactly the same it's not like Neucoin where they sliced supply 1/3 which helped their price a lot. We are not looking into reducing the total supply just make block rewards smoother which also will make the network more stable. Bitcoin is considering that it's almost going to happen to them. The only losers here are dumpers who will eventually regret. We need an entire community working together Miners are part of the community most coins now days simply ignore them for this exact reason they are not partners so Verge miners as partners will mine and Verge will become even stronger.Maybe the community vote to keep as it is but the only winners will be miners who continue to dump for anyprice they can get. The amount of coins being mined are overwhelming and it's crashing and will always crash Verge with current inflation supply is not the matter the inflation is just to high. I don't see anyone but big miners wanting to keep as it's is. With the multialgo everyone would be prepared to mine it with smoother blocks.
Faster block times would be great, from a transactions perspective, no doubt. I assume that ten second blocks are feasible or a good goal to shoot for since payment systems need to be nearly real time, I think (I never bought into those news articles, reports about how Bitcoins long transaction time (sometimes) lead to more sales... way too pie in the sky). Frankly, in five years, when the novelty of block chain currencies have worn off and coins have matured, can anyone say that it will be "acceptable" to have to wait an hour even even six minutes for a block chain transaction to be verified?
That's why 10 seconds would be nice would be another great feature.
The idea that this is even being considered is troubling. Only if it is exactly proportional enabling shorter block times; not to change inflationary pressures. This is one thing that kills coins and deserves a load of bad feedback on Twitter if not proportionally implemented to reflect the current block time schedule.
I don't think you got it properly the final amount of coins will be exactly the same it's not like Neucoin where they sliced supply 1/3 which helped their price a lot. We are not looking into reducing the total supply just make block rewards smoother which also will make the network more stable. Bitcoin is considering that it's almost going to happen to them. The only losers here are dumpers who will eventually regret. We need an entire community working together Miners are part of the community most coins now days simply ignore them for this exact reason they are not partners so Verge miners as partners will mine and Verge will become even stronger. well, when i briefly said on here once, that i could change/lower the reward system, i got hell for it on twitter.. so im not sure if its a great idea.. but we can keep discussing it if thats what everyone wants.
im removing the poll now, since we have a clear winner on algos.
scrypt, x17, lyra2rev2, blake2s, groestl has won by a landslide.
im removing the poll now, since we have a clear winner on algos.
scrypt, x17, lyra2rev2, blake2s, groestl has won by a landslide.
I seen the heck you got over the mention of the idea... That said maybe they have different visions of what this coin could be (mine one block a day and have ten BTC when it goes up or something like that). We all speculate like that, I suppose.
However, as a practical matter, I see Verge being used for things like paying for file hosting services, legal adult websites (Have a Naughty Urge, use Verge) and torrent subscription sites.... well you get the picture... my point is that the coin cannot be used for these things until the kinks are ironed out, well it could... but vendors might be more inclined to employ the coin if transactions were faster, perhaps.
Faster block times would be great, from a transactions perspective, no doubt. I assume that ten second blocks are feasible or a good goal to shoot for since payment systems need to be nearly real time, I think (I never bought into those news articles, reports about how Bitcoins long transaction time (sometimes) lead to more sales... way too pie in the sky). Frankly, in five years, when the novelty of block chain currencies have worn off and coins have matured, can anyone say that it will be "acceptable" to have to wait an hour even even six minutes for a block chain transaction to be verified?
As to reducing the reward to 1560 per block, at current values
187200-coins an hour@ 0.00000026 sat = 0.048672 BTC per hour
4492800-coins per day @ 0.00000026 = 1.168128 BTC per day
which would make this coin significantly undervalued, which might lead to some dumps in the short term but I think the market could absorb it. You could argue it is undervalued now, since
36000000-coins per day @ 0.00000026 = 9.36 BTC per day
and we are seeing 25 to 30 BTC in volume a day on Bittrex ... so there is lots of demand and not enough supply or whatever.... On the other hand, perhaps, we should be asking ourselves if we want to move to a block reward that might be more conducive to actual transactions, eventually, versus the rather massive rewards, right now since it makes me, (and others, maybe) think that Verge could be viewed as a tipping coin, which is sort of bad, I think.
Lastly, I think of Verge as being a 10 cent coin, in five to ten years or 52 dollars a block is not a bad reward, in my head, if you held it that long. Heck, even a penny would not be a horrible value from a mining perspective.
well, when i briefly said on here once, that i could change/lower the reward system, i got hell for it on twitter.. so im not sure if its a great idea.. but we can keep discussing it if thats what everyone wants.
im removing the poll now, since we have a clear winner on algos.
scrypt, x17, lyra2rev2, blake2s, groestl has won by a landslide.
im removing the poll now, since we have a clear winner on algos.
scrypt, x17, lyra2rev2, blake2s, groestl has won by a landslide.
I remember people were thinking the supply was going to increase
. I'm sure (I would assume) 10/10 people here would agree with the following...Block Time: 10 seconds
Block Rewards: 520
And extend number of blocks
This way as posted by others will smooth and tackle abrupt inflationary pressures.
Btw congratulations now Verge is also the most decentralized crypto-currency!
i put up a poll, and ill choose it later today based on results.
well, when i briefly said on here once, that i could change/lower the reward system, i got hell for it on twitter.. so im not sure if its a great idea.. but we can keep discussing it if thats what everyone wants.
im removing the poll now, since we have a clear winner on algos.
scrypt, x17, lyra2rev2, blake2s, groestl has won by a landslide.
im removing the poll now, since we have a clear winner on algos.
scrypt, x17, lyra2rev2, blake2s, groestl has won by a landslide.
I remember people were thinking the supply was going to increase
. I'm sure (I would assume) 10/10 people here would agree with the following...Block Time: 10 seconds
Block Rewards: 520
And extend number of blocks
This way as posted by others will smooth and tackle abrupt inflationary pressures.
Btw congratulations now Verge is also the most decentralized crypto-currency!
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