Topic: Yet incomplete Merit system. Implementation Proposal (Read 960 times)
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Ok, if you are with 500 or maybe 1000 merit sources meriting all the Billion user's posts, no matter
So ok! Is just I have to be merit source and spend sMerits without restriction, or I rest of a lack of sMerits! Ok
So now I close the Topic
Thanks to all for contribution
Connard
So ok! Is just I have to be merit source and spend sMerits without restriction, or I rest of a lack of sMerits! Ok
So now I close the Topic
Thanks to all for contribution
Connard
Your proposal is not only incomplete but it is also NOT an *implementation* proposal.
The Merit system is not "incomplete". If (you) feel that there is a need for more merits in the system that is fixed either by adding more merit sources or by increasing their merit airdrop.
There is a reason why for one Merit received you only get one Smerit to give and that is precisely to decay merit "cycling" between "regular" users. OTOH, merit sources are somewhat more screened and more appropriate to handle any additional airdrop of merits IF there was really a need to introduce more merits into the system... which is very arguable but a reasonable concern.
And everyone is free to apply as a merit source.
How is that any different than merit sources?
The Merit system is not "incomplete". If (you) feel that there is a need for more merits in the system that is fixed either by adding more merit sources or by increasing their merit airdrop.
There is a reason why for one Merit received you only get one Smerit to give and that is precisely to decay merit "cycling" between "regular" users. OTOH, merit sources are somewhat more screened and more appropriate to handle any additional airdrop of merits IF there was really a need to introduce more merits into the system... which is very arguable but a reasonable concern.
And everyone is free to apply as a merit source.
Quote
of course to users who would be juged to deserve it better
How is that any different than merit sources?
Giving it to random people might results in merit abuse.
Oh, I would state that a bit more strongly--if random people got more airdropped sMerits, there would be abuse up the wazoo. There's already merit abuse going on even without that happening, so you can imagine how bad it would be if OP's suggestion was implemented, which it won't be.If anything, there should be more merit sources added and that's something I've been an advocate for. Sources really have to be trustworthy since they're basically giving away something that does have economic value--merits are bought and sold for real money, though I don't know how alive that market really is. But even if merit isn't sold, it could be given to alt accounts and friends or whatever.
You proposal is interesting, but who is going to monitor, select and enforce it ?
It sounds like a hell of work for moderator (they are already super busy !!) or some kind of special task force.
What about something automated ? A lottery with "sent smerit" condition of entry ?
Imagine the following :
User A earns 50 merit in a 30 rolling days (25 smerit).
If in the same rolling period he has sent >90% of smerit then he is eligible to get some extra smerit the next time he is meriting someone.
So userA earn 50 merits (25 smerits),
Once he has sent 20 of that smerit, he goes into a lottery.
Once in the lottery if he sends smerit he has a lottery ticket. (1 smerit sent = 1 ticket if 5 smerits then tickets)
winnings could be : 1 smerit (1/10 odds) / 2smerits (1/20 odds) / 5smerits (1/50) and 10 extra smerits with 1/100 odds.
If he wins some free smerit, They wont allow him to enter the lottery.
You only get smerit lottery tickets based on the smerit you send from the stack you have earned (not airdropped/won at lottery).
This will do 2 things: make smerit being used instead of hoarded.
Increase by a little the amount of smerit in circulation.
This is just a reflection, in my opinion, the system isn't broken, so why changing it ?
Yes, great idea. Could work very well It sounds like a hell of work for moderator (they are already super busy !!) or some kind of special task force.
What about something automated ? A lottery with "sent smerit" condition of entry ?
Imagine the following :
User A earns 50 merit in a 30 rolling days (25 smerit).
If in the same rolling period he has sent >90% of smerit then he is eligible to get some extra smerit the next time he is meriting someone.
So userA earn 50 merits (25 smerits),
Once he has sent 20 of that smerit, he goes into a lottery.
Once in the lottery if he sends smerit he has a lottery ticket. (1 smerit sent = 1 ticket if 5 smerits then tickets)
winnings could be : 1 smerit (1/10 odds) / 2smerits (1/20 odds) / 5smerits (1/50) and 10 extra smerits with 1/100 odds.
If he wins some free smerit, They wont allow him to enter the lottery.
You only get smerit lottery tickets based on the smerit you send from the stack you have earned (not airdropped/won at lottery).
This will do 2 things: make smerit being used instead of hoarded.
Increase by a little the amount of smerit in circulation.
This is just a reflection, in my opinion, the system isn't broken, so why changing it ?
You proposal is interesting, but who is going to monitor, select and enforce it ?
It sounds like a hell of work for moderator (they are already super busy !!) or some kind of special task force.
What about something automated ? A lottery with "sent smerit" condition of entry ?
Imagine the following :
User A earns 50 merit in a 30 rolling days (25 smerit).
If in the same rolling period he has sent >90% of smerit then he is eligible to get some extra smerit the next time he is meriting someone.
So userA earn 50 merits (25 smerits),
Once he has sent 20 of that smerit, he goes into a lottery.
Once in the lottery if he sends smerit he has a lottery ticket. (1 smerit sent = 1 ticket if 5 smerits then tickets)
winnings could be : 1 smerit (1/10 odds) / 2smerits (1/20 odds) / 5smerits (1/50) and 10 extra smerits with 1/100 odds.
If he wins some free smerit, They wont allow him to enter the lottery.
You only get smerit lottery tickets based on the smerit you send from the stack you have earned (not airdropped/won at lottery).
This will do 2 things: make smerit being used instead of hoarded.
Increase by a little the amount of smerit in circulation.
This is just a reflection, in my opinion, the system isn't broken, so why changing it ?
It sounds like a hell of work for moderator (they are already super busy !!) or some kind of special task force.
What about something automated ? A lottery with "sent smerit" condition of entry ?
Imagine the following :
User A earns 50 merit in a 30 rolling days (25 smerit).
If in the same rolling period he has sent >90% of smerit then he is eligible to get some extra smerit the next time he is meriting someone.
So userA earn 50 merits (25 smerits),
Once he has sent 20 of that smerit, he goes into a lottery.
Once in the lottery if he sends smerit he has a lottery ticket. (1 smerit sent = 1 ticket if 5 smerits then tickets)
winnings could be : 1 smerit (1/10 odds) / 2smerits (1/20 odds) / 5smerits (1/50) and 10 extra smerits with 1/100 odds.
If he wins some free smerit, They wont allow him to enter the lottery.
You only get smerit lottery tickets based on the smerit you send from the stack you have earned (not airdropped/won at lottery).
This will do 2 things: make smerit being used instead of hoarded.
Increase by a little the amount of smerit in circulation.
This is just a reflection, in my opinion, the system isn't broken, so why changing it ?
and by the way fuckyourself shitfucker
Well done and replyed and shows your real Character !
Welcome on my Ignore List
I am not talking of, (100 Merits), every month and to everyone.
Just something kind like a little extra, sometimes.
Just something kind like a little extra, sometimes.
And how many boards on the forum ?
It's around 250 including sub-boards of sub-boards from different local board and I have received merits from at least 15 different boards; there's no lack of merit circulation I have observed ever. The same is also going on other boards I guess. More or less I have visited most of the boards of the forum other than the local.Quote
Lets take an average of 10posts/user/day, No matter the post deserve mert or not, Do you really think that sufficient ??
If they don't deserve merit, I guess the number of merit source is sufficient but if they deserve but not getting merit; that's when we can conclude that it's not sufficient. But I can't remember when last I have seen a post which deserve merit but didn't get. 
It would be best to just add more merit sources if a lack of merit going around is an issue, or also bump up the current merit allocation of current users if frequent and trusted merit sources are running out quickly. Maybe even giving the ability to make additional merit sources to some staff or even trusted users would also be beneficial as I don't know how much time theymos has to keep on top of merit sources-demand etc. I definitely think there should be more sources either way.
This has been suggested a couple of times before but it would just lead to abuse as people would try to game the system. I guess staff can already give merit to certain users if they think they're doing a good job anyway but it shouldn't be automated or anything just based on good reports as it would be quickly abused.
my humble suggestion : board moderators can award Merit to ... quality 'Report to moderator' button clicks
Elias Ch.
Elias Ch.
This has been suggested a couple of times before but it would just lead to abuse as people would try to game the system. I guess staff can already give merit to certain users if they think they're doing a good job anyway but it shouldn't be automated or anything just based on good reports as it would be quickly abused.
<…> That is not enough, I think the system is on lacking <…>
What you’re describing seems no different to a request to add more Merit Sources (even if they are not large in terms of allowance), and whilst I will always favour more eyes on the board as a means of diversifying criteria, they are not solely chosen based on their past meriting history, thus the procedure the forum established for postulating to become one.The reasons to potentially add more Merit Sources are essentially to enhance diversity and merit boards that are under-merited. The former is more of a conceptual feature, and if there is not enough diversity in criteria, then that is an issue to debate (given some concrete grounds). The latter would need to be debated based on (largish) lists of unmerited posts, and some number crunching figures that help support the claims (derivable for example from here: Merit Dashboard).
to users who would be juged to deserve it better
Who is going to judge that?
plaplaplapla
Can you open your eyes instead of your mouth? If you see well you'll see that I'm not talking about (Merits) but sMeritsSo can you go your way, skip this thread, and by the way fuckyourself shitfucker
There are around 100 merit source at the moment.
And how many boards on the forum ?Do you truly think merit source only can give their source sMerit to 1 (one) board? Many merit source i've seen give merit to 5+ boards (not counting it's child board)
Regarding that a dilemma is opposing; Do merit sources have to reward with an extra amount to allow users meriting other users correctly ?
4, 5 peoples could be really enough using tools making stats and filtering datas
That doesn't answer my question. Who are those 4-5 people? Moderators?
There are ~100 merit sources who actually read the posts they merit, what makes you think that 4-5 people with some undefined tools/stats would do something that merit sources can't? And theymos can increase the number of sources and/or number of sMerits available any time he wants. Judging by stats it seems that he's aiming for ~20-25k sent merits per month.
I don't think this will work the way you wanted it to be implemented. Building a system or a tool is a very tedious work, and the only way to check the quality of a user in sending their smerit to other user is by only scrutinizing it manually since giving merit to other user is very subjective.
If by viewing the history of sent merits of the user is the only factor considered by the bot / tool then it can be faked easily for those member who has a lots of smerit to send which can maybe lead to a shady merit distribution to their alts/ useless posts for the sake of another pack of smerit. But the good thing about this is that, high ranking members can easily determined which of the accounts are involved in unethical merit distribution that can decrease the number of accounts who are abusing the system.
Nothing is hard,If by viewing the history of sent merits of the user is the only factor considered by the bot / tool then it can be faked easily for those member who has a lots of smerit to send which can maybe lead to a shady merit distribution to their alts/ useless posts for the sake of another pack of smerit. But the good thing about this is that, high ranking members can easily determined which of the accounts are involved in unethical merit distribution that can decrease the number of accounts who are abusing the system.
A sorting from sent merits can be made just by reviewing the posts, if merited from another side, by who, the users merited, etc etc.
Just that can make a great first view on where to focus..
my humble suggestion : board moderators can award Merit to ... quality 'Report to moderator' button clicks
Elias Ch.
Elias Ch.
This will end up in a mess of reports done by every newbie because they know exactly they get merit for it possible.
Its just an tought but i think this would be not working good out .
There was a few threads and posts about that already somewhere,but cant remember.
my humble suggestion : board moderators can award Merit to ... quality 'Report to moderator' button clicks
Elias Ch.
Update 26-Jan my time 15:30-
disclaimer : key word above is 'quality' , that needs moderator's experience or better.
quantity instead is what will do damage than good, agreed 101%
Elias Ch.
Update 26-Jan my time 15:30-
disclaimer : key word above is 'quality' , that needs moderator's experience or better.
quantity instead is what will do damage than good, agreed 101%
Imagine I don't post much and I own a just little amount of sMerits, when reading a Topic, so I manage te merit some users without meriting the others posts that I think meriting ??!
If you dont post much its realy your problem first !You think to much about getting merits.
If you will be more active and post more its possible that you get merits.
Or Imagine I think that I'm in need of more sMerits but don't want to become a merit source, Here is what I'm talking about, get the possibility to just have more sMerits in my possession
Why you in need of merits ?You are already Legendary Member so there is normaly no need.
If you want so baddly Merits make some quality good posts or topics and its possible that you will get a few and you can spend them to Users that you think they are worth for it.
4, 5 peoples could be really enough using tools making stats and filtering datas
That doesn't answer my question. Who are those 4-5 people? Moderators?
There are ~100 merit sources who actually read the posts they merit, what makes you think that 4-5 people with some undefined tools/stats would do something that merit sources can't? And theymos can increase the number of sources and/or number of sMerits available any time he wants. Judging by stats it seems that he's aiming for ~20-25k sent merits per month.
to users who would be juged to deserve it better
Who is going to judge that?
Hell yeah! There is an approximate 2M forum members and I don't think theymos and other reputable high ranking members can inspect each of them. As I see it, increasing or airdroping smerit to millions of user can escalate the cases of merit abuse
I don't say that it would be gived randomly, it is not hard to build a tool that make evaluation just by reviewing the history of sent merits!
I think of the possibility getting that both by applying for, or without asking for that after a possible review from mods
I don't think this will work the way you wanted it to be implemented. Building a system or a tool is a very tedious work, and the only way to check the quality of a user in sending their smerit to other user is by only scrutinizing it manually since giving merit to other user is very subjective.I think of the possibility getting that both by applying for, or without asking for that after a possible review from mods
If by viewing the history of sent merits of the user is the only factor considered by the bot / tool then it can be faked easily for those member who has a lots of smerit to send which can maybe lead to a shady merit distribution to their alts/ useless posts for the sake of another pack of smerit. But the good thing about this is that, high ranking members can easily determined which of the accounts are involved in unethical merit distribution that can decrease the number of accounts who are abusing the system.
to users who would be juged to deserve it better
Who is going to judge that?
to users who would be juged to deserve it better
Who is going to judge that?
[....]
That is not enough, I think the system is on lackingBeyond to have much more merit sources, (tipically a merit source cannot give out over a certain amount of merits), why not distribute certain amount of sMerits to have in addition to the earned sMerits from merited posts,
it's will be between regular sMerits earning and becoming merit source
Imagine I don't post much and I own a just little amount of sMerits, when reading a Topic, so I manage te merit some users without meriting the others posts that I think meriting ??!
Or Imagine I think that I'm in need of more sMerits but don't want to become a merit source, Here is what I'm talking about, get the possibility to just have more sMerits in my possession
I don't say that it would be gived randomly, it is not hard to build a tool that make evaluation just by reviewing the history of sent merits!
I think of the possibility getting that both by applying for, or without asking for that after a possible review from mods
Those who were awarded smerits to spend every month are called merit sources do you want some changes on it?
Giving it to random people might results in merit abuse.
If you feel that deserved posts are not getting enough merits then you can report it here: Report unmerited good posts to Merit Source
Giving it to random people might results in merit abuse.
If you feel that deserved posts are not getting enough merits then you can report it here: Report unmerited good posts to Merit Source
<...>
That’s what Merit Sources are for, and some even have a monthly allowance lower than the figures you mention in the packs. Chosen Merit Sources, I figure, require a fair share of trust on @theymos’ behalf (not the profile trust, but trust in terms of being capable of handing it out properly). That’s why there is a procedure in place that allows for a glimpse of what a Merit Source candidate would be meriting, in addition to (probably) the reputation that person has. Packaging sMerits to further extend their reach is not really that different from the above.If one finds that a specific board is well under-merited, the best is to postulate to become a Merit Source, or to make a clear cut case why that board is lacking a merit source or an increase for those already acting there (i.e. pointing to a (largish) number of (recent) posts that are merit worthy there and are either not merited or under-merited).
Additionally there is this thread: Report unmerited good posts to Merit Source.
Do you think ?
There are around 100 merit source at the moment.
And how many boards on the forum ?Current number of active users in each month wouldn't be more than 50k(guess). Although there are a lot of posts are generated, I doubt one-fourth of that are actually high quality and deserve merit.
Lets take an average of 10posts/user/day, No matter the post deserve mert or not, Do you really think that sufficient ??
There are around 100 merit source at the moment. Current number of active users in each month wouldn't be more than 50k(guess). Although there are a lot of posts are generated, I doubt one-fourth of that are actually high quality and deserve merit.
Taking myself as an example-
I'm mostly active in Beginner's board. Some merit sources are active there and share smerit consistently. In my local, there's 1 merit source and he is more or less (enough) active in sharing smerit. In fact, boards where I'm active, I never feel the lack of smerit.
The circulation of smerits are much bigger. Not only merit sources, a lot of members also share smerits. I guess we have enough of merit sources and circulation.
If you think any particular board isn't getting enough smerit, you can bring some good quality post and apply as a merit source. Theymos will certainly take a look.
Taking myself as an example-
I'm mostly active in Beginner's board. Some merit sources are active there and share smerit consistently. In my local, there's 1 merit source and he is more or less (enough) active in sharing smerit. In fact, boards where I'm active, I never feel the lack of smerit.
The circulation of smerits are much bigger. Not only merit sources, a lot of members also share smerits. I guess we have enough of merit sources and circulation.
If you think any particular board isn't getting enough smerit, you can bring some good quality post and apply as a merit source. Theymos will certainly take a look.
Do is just me, but I'm thinking the pair (Merit-Sources / Earned sMerits) is yet not sufficient to deserve all the potential for the forum
So,
Why not create a way in what [packs of sMerits, 50 or 100] are distributed to users, both by applying from users and distributing them in some way automatically. of course to users who would be juged to deserve it better
??
So,
Why not create a way in what [packs of sMerits, 50 or 100] are distributed to users, both by applying from users and distributing them in some way automatically. of course to users who would be juged to deserve it better
??
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