Topic: [∞ YH] solo.ckpool.org 1% fee solo mining USA/DE 251 blocks solved! - page 371. (Read 1514501 times)
May 17, 2015, 12:23:30 PM
on the same thought, If the dev.of cgminer are aware of block witholding isn't it possible to stop it within the cgminer code it self just asking.
May 17, 2015, 11:27:17 AM
just to clear things..
stealing blocks when renting rigs is not possible.
but blocking minergear to submit high shares to pool is possible,
or blocking rentalsite submitting high share from miner to pool is possible.
this will only gain waste of energy and leaving the possible blocks to other miners.
correct me if im wrong.
Yes you can't steal a block, but that is not what we've mentioned in any of this or at my link.stealing blocks when renting rigs is not possible.
but blocking minergear to submit high shares to pool is possible,
or blocking rentalsite submitting high share from miner to pool is possible.
this will only gain waste of energy and leaving the possible blocks to other miners.
correct me if im wrong.
You can't leave a block to someone else.
You can simply stop a block by not submitting it and no pool can identify that you didn't submit it.
If you are mining at 1,000 difficulty, a 1,000 difficulty share is worth the same as a 10,000,000,000 difficulty share, so stopping high shares is pretty much irrelevant.
talking about the same thing. possible but irrelevant and stupid if done.
only way to measure possible blocking attacks is to compare your bestshare at long period, or pools expected shares when block is found, (ck solo has no expected shares stats and shares does not matter..).
and suchs attacks are really hard to identify, too many variables and the so much missed/called: "can vary greatly depending on your luck.."
... and I know coz I wrote the original small bit of code in cgminer that identified the blocks and reported them in cgminer.
... and I've no idea what that guy from the hash place is going on about.
It is as jonnybravo0311 said above and as I posted in my thread.
Does the hash guy not understand how mining works?
It's simple, if you rent mining power, you must trust the source of the mining power.
There is no way for you to verify if they are withholding blocks from you without a VERY large amount of data.
And just to make it worse, they could easily withhold 3 out of every 4 blocks they find and it would be next to impossible to show they are doing that.
It is a clear and present risk.
Ignore the hash guy further above with the vested interest in this.
May 17, 2015, 11:13:24 AM
just to clear things..
stealing blocks when renting rigs is not possible.
but blocking minergear to submit high shares to pool is possible,
or blocking rentalsite submitting high share from miner to pool is possible.
this will only gain waste of energy and leaving the possible blocks to other miners.
correct me if im wrong.
Yes you can't steal a block, but that is not what we've mentioned in any of this or at my link.stealing blocks when renting rigs is not possible.
but blocking minergear to submit high shares to pool is possible,
or blocking rentalsite submitting high share from miner to pool is possible.
this will only gain waste of energy and leaving the possible blocks to other miners.
correct me if im wrong.
You can't leave a block to someone else.
You can simply stop a block by not submitting it and no pool can identify that you didn't submit it.
If you are mining at 1,000 difficulty, a 1,000 difficulty share is worth the same as a 10,000,000,000 difficulty share, so stopping high shares is pretty much irrelevant.
talking about the same thing. possible but irrelevant and stupid if done.
only way to measure possible blocking attacks is to compare your bestshare at long period, or pools expected shares when block is found, (ck solo has no expected shares stats and shares does not matter..).
and suchs attacks are really hard to identify, too many variables and the so much missed/called: "can vary greatly depending on your luck.."
Exactly, probably impossible to identify. And since all PPS pools (and others to some extent) are voulnerable to this type of attack (and PPS pools being here for several years) - the big question is, why this question was 'opened' by kano regarding rentals? To me, it looks like an attempt to discredit certain rental sites. All rental sites together have less than 10 PHs, but major PPS pools have more than 50 PHs. If anyone should be worried about this are large PPS pools rather than rentals, because these pools have the most to loose in events of such attacks.
Let's say that I write some code to the effect of "do not submit any shares that are of 40B or greater". How would you know that I'm withholding that? To you I'm still hashing away and regularly submitting shares. You think all is good and pay me. The renter is still getting the hash rate he paid for.
May 17, 2015, 11:03:31 AM
just to clear things..
stealing blocks when renting rigs is not possible.
but blocking minergear to submit high shares to pool is possible,
or blocking rentalsite submitting high share from miner to pool is possible.
this will only gain waste of energy and leaving the possible blocks to other miners.
correct me if im wrong.
Yes you can't steal a block, but that is not what we've mentioned in any of this or at my link.stealing blocks when renting rigs is not possible.
but blocking minergear to submit high shares to pool is possible,
or blocking rentalsite submitting high share from miner to pool is possible.
this will only gain waste of energy and leaving the possible blocks to other miners.
correct me if im wrong.
You can't leave a block to someone else.
You can simply stop a block by not submitting it and no pool can identify that you didn't submit it.
If you are mining at 1,000 difficulty, a 1,000 difficulty share is worth the same as a 10,000,000,000 difficulty share, so stopping high shares is pretty much irrelevant.
talking about the same thing. possible but irrelevant and stupid if done.
only way to measure possible blocking attacks is to compare your bestshare at long period, or pools expected shares when block is found, (ck solo has no expected shares stats and shares does not matter..).
and suchs attacks are really hard to identify, too many variables and the so much missed/called: "can vary greatly depending on your luck.."
Exactly, probably impossible to identify. And since all PPS pools (and others to some extent) are voulnerable to this type of attack (and PPS pools being here for several years) - the big question is, why this question was 'opened' by kano regarding rentals? To me, it looks like an attempt to discredit certain rental sites. All rental sites together have less than 10 PHs, but major PPS pools have more than 50 PHs. If anyone should be worried about this are large PPS pools rather than rentals, because these pools have the most to loose in events of such attacks.
May 17, 2015, 10:28:58 AM
just to clear things..
stealing blocks when renting rigs is not possible.
but blocking minergear to submit high shares to pool is possible,
or blocking rentalsite submitting high share from miner to pool is possible.
this will only gain waste of energy and leaving the possible blocks to other miners.
correct me if im wrong.
Yes you can't steal a block, but that is not what we've mentioned in any of this or at my link.stealing blocks when renting rigs is not possible.
but blocking minergear to submit high shares to pool is possible,
or blocking rentalsite submitting high share from miner to pool is possible.
this will only gain waste of energy and leaving the possible blocks to other miners.
correct me if im wrong.
You can't leave a block to someone else.
You can simply stop a block by not submitting it and no pool can identify that you didn't submit it.
If you are mining at 1,000 difficulty, a 1,000 difficulty share is worth the same as a 10,000,000,000 difficulty share, so stopping high shares is pretty much irrelevant.
talking about the same thing. possible but irrelevant and stupid if done.
only way to measure possible blocking attacks is to compare your bestshare at long period, or pools expected shares when block is found, (ck solo has no expected shares stats and shares does not matter..).
and suchs attacks are really hard to identify, too many variables and the so much missed/called: "can vary greatly depending on your luck.."
May 17, 2015, 09:40:14 AM
just to clear things..
stealing blocks when renting rigs is not possible.
but blocking minergear to submit high shares to pool is possible,
or blocking rentalsite submitting high share from miner to pool is possible.
this will only gain waste of energy and leaving the possible blocks to other miners.
correct me if im wrong.
Yes you can't steal a block, but that is not what we've mentioned in any of this or at my link.stealing blocks when renting rigs is not possible.
but blocking minergear to submit high shares to pool is possible,
or blocking rentalsite submitting high share from miner to pool is possible.
this will only gain waste of energy and leaving the possible blocks to other miners.
correct me if im wrong.
You can't leave a block to someone else.
You can simply stop a block by not submitting it and no pool can identify that you didn't submit it.
If you are mining at 1,000 difficulty, a 1,000 difficulty share is worth the same as a 10,000,000,000 difficulty share, so stopping high shares is pretty much irrelevant.
May 17, 2015, 09:34:41 AM
just to clear things..
stealing blocks when renting rigs is not possible.
but blocking minergears to submit high shares to pool is possible,
or rentalsite blocking miners submitting high shares to pool is possible.
this will only gain waste of energy and leaving the possible blocks to other miners.
correct me if im wrong.
stealing blocks when renting rigs is not possible.
but blocking minergears to submit high shares to pool is possible,
or rentalsite blocking miners submitting high shares to pool is possible.
this will only gain waste of energy and leaving the possible blocks to other miners.
correct me if im wrong.
May 17, 2015, 08:35:25 AM
...
Also, what you're describing is possible to do on any other pool with physical miners, it's one of the issues of stratum mining where you can't actually know if miners are submitting all of their shares.
...
Not sure what your point is there - that's nothing specifically to do with stratum - that's to do with all mining - including your rented miners.Also, what you're describing is possible to do on any other pool with physical miners, it's one of the issues of stratum mining where you can't actually know if miners are submitting all of their shares.
...
As noted above - solo mining with your own hardware is protected against it coz you'd be a retard to withhold blocks when solo mining with your own hardware, but nothing stops someone renting you hardware from withholding since they get paid if you don't find blocks.
As I already made this clear before:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/pps-block-withholding-and-rentals-1002086
May 17, 2015, 08:16:03 AM
Also, what you're describing is possible to do on any other pool with physical miners, it's one of the issues of stratum mining where you can't actually know if miners are submitting all of their shares.
PPLNS or DGM protect pool operators partially as the miners actually lose out by withholding their blocks. The only pooled mining which is "protected" is... solo mining. But thanks for your contribution and reassurance.EDIT: Actually do you monitor how many blocks your miners solve? You said full share validation but you didn't mention blocks. Shares are worth precisely zero here.
May 17, 2015, 08:14:25 AM
100T + seems to be the magic numbers lately.
Funny you say that. I had noticed that not a single person who rented 1+ PH has ever found a block here. Not sure exactly what that means but as well as some very lucky people there have been some very unlucky people. There is really, however, no way to confirm the hardware you are hiring isn't configured in such a way as to never find you a block mind you so you're always taking a risk (they'd need to be very nasty operators and I seriously doubt they'd risk their reputation with so much hashrate at their disposal but you never know).Well, just to make a small comment here - hashing power from NiceHash/WestHash is as good as from any physical miner... Maybe even better, because we're the only service that is actually doing full share validation at our side to exclude any possible fakers (https://www.nicehash.com/index.jsp?p=faq#faqg3).
Also, what you're describing is possible to do on any other pool with physical miners, it's one of the issues of stratum mining where you can't actually know if miners are submitting all of their shares.
Here is a sneak-peak from one of our upcoming features - hashing power buyers will be able to see detailed graph statistics for their order (speed, rejects and other possible target pool issues) and thus will be able to compare purchased hashing power to the one that target pool is getting.
Take a look at the current solo-club 1PH order (times UTC-2):
As you can see the hashing power is stable and "good quality". But I'd like to raise here another issue with "pausing" orders. As you can see, solo-club's order is on pause in particular periods or doesn't reach full speed (due to order's price limitation - this is typical for many big orders). Now, if we're talking about luck (and to be honest, luck is all about solo mining), what if your lucky moments are exactly in those "paused" periods and you're just missing them? ... just joking
May 17, 2015, 08:12:52 AM
I am trying to wrap my head around this.... As far a withholding the blocks or configuring the miners to not find or show the blocks? Would this be on the rig owners end or the site you rent thru?
Could be done at any level, but rig owners stand to gain by effectively earning PPS on their hashrate without the concomitant rise in diff associated with their hashrate. 
May 17, 2015, 08:11:16 AM
100T + seems to be the magic numbers lately.
Funny you say that. I had noticed that not a single person who rented 1+ PH has ever found a block here. Not sure exactly what that means but as well as some very lucky people there have been some very unlucky people. There is really, however, no way to confirm the hardware you are hiring isn't configured in such a way as to never find you a block mind you so you're always taking a risk (they'd need to be very nasty operators and I seriously doubt they'd risk their reputation with so much hashrate at their disposal but you never know).
May 17, 2015, 06:50:32 AM
we are in hold mode with only the bonus fixed rate hashing
http://solo.ckpool.org/users/1CqbvmuJcLFDFzFewKmBVAaghXEtByzY9Y
"bestshare": 9,717,111,133.1762638}
the big orders of 200th and 800th at west and nice hash are in a frozen state
#393676 Standard Alive 0.0098 0.01458511 ∞ 50.00 0 0.0000
#393756 Standard Alive 0.0098 0.99647398 ∞ 200.00 0 0.0000 us at west hash
#394035 Standard Alive 0.0098 0.48487025 ∞ 10.00 0 0.0000
#382338 Standard Alive 0.0098 0.51807463 ∞ 50.00 0 0.0000
#393760 Standard Alive 0.0098 4.83884262 ∞ 800.00 0 0.0000 us at nicehash
#386619 Standard Alive 0.0098 0.04788766 ∞ 5.00 0 0.0000
we have about 13 hours left
http://solo.ckpool.org/users/1CqbvmuJcLFDFzFewKmBVAaghXEtByzY9Y
"bestshare": 9,717,111,133.1762638}
the big orders of 200th and 800th at west and nice hash are in a frozen state
#393676 Standard Alive 0.0098 0.01458511 ∞ 50.00 0 0.0000
#393756 Standard Alive 0.0098 0.99647398 ∞ 200.00 0 0.0000 us at west hash
#394035 Standard Alive 0.0098 0.48487025 ∞ 10.00 0 0.0000
#382338 Standard Alive 0.0098 0.51807463 ∞ 50.00 0 0.0000
#393760 Standard Alive 0.0098 4.83884262 ∞ 800.00 0 0.0000 us at nicehash
#386619 Standard Alive 0.0098 0.04788766 ∞ 5.00 0 0.0000
we have about 13 hours left
May 17, 2015, 05:27:36 AM
100T + seems to be the magic numbers lately.
Funny you say that. I had noticed that not a single person who rented 1+ PH has ever found a block here. Not sure exactly what that means but as well as some very lucky people there have been some very unlucky people. There is really, however, no way to confirm the hardware you are hiring isn't configured in such a way as to never find you a block mind you so you're always taking a risk (they'd need to be very nasty operators and I seriously doubt they'd risk their reputation with so much hashrate at their disposal but you never know). 
May 17, 2015, 02:25:50 AM
Another lucky winner awaiting confirm
https://blockchain.info/block/000000000000000011ef02ef1195c36e736edda14045c03ee34f84f6406b1203
1H5QBZ6GdZug2BNx6oRAi8GBCi4nuJARiK with ~125THs
https://blockchain.info/block/000000000000000011ef02ef1195c36e736edda14045c03ee34f84f6406b1203
1H5QBZ6GdZug2BNx6oRAi8GBCi4nuJARiK with ~125THs
Congratulations to 1H5QBZ6GdZug2BNx6oRAi8GBCi4nuJARiK
Code:
{"hashrate1m": "124T", "hashrate5m": "125T", "hashrate1hr": "125T", "hashrate1d": "46T", "hashrate7d": "7.93T"
Code:
[2015-05-16 11:04:11] Possible block solve diff 61309078439.746254 !
[2015-05-16 11:04:11] BLOCK ACCEPTED!
[2015-05-16 11:04:11] Solved and confirmed block 356675
Congrats! 100T + seems to be the magic numbers lately.
May 17, 2015, 12:27:02 AM
Good luck to the group, hoping to wake up tomorrow and see you hit a few blocks!
Us too. Lol May 16, 2015, 09:10:38 PM
Good luck to the group, hoping to wake up tomorrow and see you hit a few blocks!
so far zip http://solo.ckpool.org/users/1CqbvmuJcLFDFzFewKmBVAaghXEtByzY9Y
{"hashrate1m": "252T", "hashrate5m": "347T", "hashrate1hr": "704T", "hashrate1d": "275T", "hashrate7d": "49T", "lastupdate": 1431824966, "workers": 12,
"bestshare": 9,717,111,133.1762638}
And a few are paying over our price so our hash is down a bit.
so I raise us in price to 0.0104 from 0.0100 which is 4% and higher then we should pay.
Since I did this without asking I added funds on my dime.
see screen shot and someone raised price upwards to 0.011 which means I amd dropping us down and going defensive.
order number 393760 will stop for a bit it is nicehash
order numer 393756 will stop for a bit it is westhash
the fixed order 393769 my gift to the club will carry-on it is west hash a 5th place holder
May 16, 2015, 03:25:10 PM
Good luck to the group, hoping to wake up tomorrow and see you hit a few blocks!
May 16, 2015, 02:00:40 PM
How can we be part of this ck solo club?? 
give us 25btc and you get a full membership
joking mate! come back to this thread in 23h and you will find out if the club will live on!
LE: jonnybravo0311 forgot the entrance fee of 1 block
maybe interested joining some later round but not yet...
May 16, 2015, 12:51:22 PM
How can we be part of this ck solo club??
give us 25btc and you get a full membership
joking mate! come back to this thread in 23h and you will find out if the club will live on!
LE: jonnybravo0311 forgot the entrance fee of 1 block
it is like fight club you don't talk about fight club.
and all your blocks belong to phil
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