[∞ YH] solo.ckpool.org 2% fee solo mining USA/DE 255 blocks solved! - page 313.

Ziploc

sr. member

Activity: 405

Merit: 250

Quote from: philipma1957 on November 01, 2015, 09:15:24 PM

now ask me how an asic chip generates the number.
or ask me why can't a clever programmer get the dice to be loaded to spin more winners.

And I will tell you : I don't know or understand how the algorithm generates an honest roll of the dice.

But I am guessing it is not gamed or rigged since a lot of guys with good minds would be doing it if possible.

I though so too but I suspected that there might be ways of improving the odds (like having the latest and newest miner), but I guess there's not

Anw Thx again for help and answers to the questions that probably were asked numerous times before.

That's appreciated.

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4326

Merit: 8899

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: Ziploc on November 01, 2015, 08:52:39 PM

yes indeed the variance and ''luck'' is there...

I avoided that to simplify the discussion

BTW thanks all for your time and answers

and what I understood is: (again beside the luck and variance)

1- finding a block means get the right side of multi faced dice (number of faces = difficulty)
2- bigger total hash power = more rolls in a definite span of time
3- a newer generation / faster miner should be equal to a equal sum of hash of multiple older gen / slower miners
4- finding a block might take few seconds or way longer....(this would be luck / variance)
and
5- I'm not sure about this; but I think that finding a block is somehow round based ? ie: once someone finds it, the round restarts and everyone starts new round from the scratch....

and thx philipma1957 for Bitcoinwisdom,
I never noticed that... Wink

always looked at the charts....lol

= or > then the diff is a winner.

now ask me how an asic chip generates the number.
or ask me why can't a clever programmer get the dice to be loaded to spin more winners.

And I will tell you : I don't know or understand how the algorithm generates an honest roll of the dice.

But I am guessing it is not gamed or rigged since a lot of guys with good minds would be doing it if possible.

Ziploc

sr. member

Activity: 405

Merit: 250

And CK..

it's been few days I pointed my humble 2*s3 to your pool and I rented some hash...to experiment..

1- 1,7 Peta for 10 min.....that was fun but gave nothing....lol
2- 4,6TH for 2 days....still running...
3 -will see Wink

Ziploc

sr. member

Activity: 405

Merit: 250

yes indeed the variance and ''luck'' is there...

I avoided that to simplify the discussion

BTW thanks all for your time and answers

and what I understood is: (again beside the luck and variance)

1- finding a block means get the right side of multi faced dice (number of faces = difficulty)
2- bigger total hash power = more rolls in a definite span of time
3- a newer generation / faster miner should be equal to a equal sum of hash of multiple older gen / slower miners
4- finding a block might take few seconds or way longer....(this would be luck / variance)
and
5- I'm not sure about this; but I think that finding a block is somehow round based ? ie: once someone finds it, the round restarts and everyone starts new round from the scratch....

and thx philipma1957 for Bitcoinwisdom,
I never noticed that... Wink

always looked at the charts....lol

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4326

Merit: 8899

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: Ziploc on November 01, 2015, 08:30:35 PM

Quote from: os2sam on November 01, 2015, 08:26:38 PM

Quote from: Ziploc on November 01, 2015, 08:17:20 PM

and all this....because I'm courious about this hash renting

I want to understand if it's relevant to rent better faster equippement or no matter how many miners as long the total hash is greater...

and for how long....

Well, if you rent 456253.85Ths you should find a block in about 10 minutes.

whish I could...lol

that means that 3.1 peta would find a block within 24hrs?

what's the exact equation you've used to calculate that ?

it is around some where but bitcoinwisdom will give you an idea.

punch in the hash say 15th and you will see you get about .11 btc in a day divide the day rate into 25 and you will see how many days 15th needs to hit a block about 240. of course you be lucky and 15th could hit in five minutes. i hit two blocks in under two hours renting five hundred th. about a six hundred to one shot when i did it.

kano

legendary

Activity: 4592

Merit: 1851

Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

That's not exact.

That's the expected average over long term.
e.g. if you found 1000 blocks you would expect to average something close to that over all 1000, but even then no guarantee.
The fewer the blocks found, the greater expected variance.

On just 1 block, the CDF stats are:

Code:

 0.39346934028737   50.000%  1 in 1.6
 0.63212055882856  100.000%  1 in 2.7
 0.86466471676339  200.000%  1 in 7.4
 0.95021293163214  300.000%  1 in 20.1
 0.98168436111127  400.000%  1 in 54.6
 0.99326205300091  500.000%  1 in 148.4
 0.99752124782333  600.000%  1 in 403.4
 0.99872735771441  666.666%  1 in 785.8
 0.99908811803445  700.000%  1 in 1096.6
 0.99966453737210  800.000%  1 in 2981.0
 0.99987659019591  900.000%  1 in 8103.1

What the numbers above mean is how often to expect to get a block longer than the given % of expected time.
i.e. 300% means that taking more than 3x longer than the expected time to find a block (for a given fixed hash rate) is expected to average 1 in 20.1 times you find a block

Ziploc

sr. member

Activity: 405

Merit: 250

Quote from: os2sam on November 01, 2015, 08:26:38 PM

Quote from: Ziploc on November 01, 2015, 08:17:20 PM

and all this....because I'm courious about this hash renting

I want to understand if it's relevant to rent better faster equippement or no matter how many miners as long the total hash is greater...

and for how long....

Well, if you rent 456253.85Ths you should find a block in about 10 minutes.

whish I could...lol

that means that 3.1 peta would find a block within 24hrs?

what's the exact equation you've used to calculate that ?

os2sam

legendary

Activity: 3583

Merit: 1094

Think for yourself

Quote from: Ziploc on November 01, 2015, 08:17:20 PM

and all this....because I'm courious about this hash renting

I want to understand if it's relevant to rent better faster equippement or no matter how many miners as long the total hash is greater...

and for how long....

Well, if you rent 456253.85Ths you should find a block in about 10 minutes.

os2sam

legendary

Activity: 3583

Merit: 1094

Think for yourself

Quote from: Ziploc on November 01, 2015, 08:15:02 PM

but generating this magic number does take time and bigger number, longer is the time, no ?

No. Each roll of the 62.3 Billion sided die has an equal chance of landing on the winning side. Higher hash rate means more roll's of the die in a given period of time.

Ziploc

sr. member

Activity: 405

Merit: 250

and all this....because I'm courious about this hash renting

I want to understand if it's relevant to rent better faster equippement or no matter how many miners as long the total hash is greater...

and for how long....

Ziploc

sr. member

Activity: 405

Merit: 250

Quote from: philipma1957 on November 01, 2015, 07:41:21 PM

the magic dice is a number generator say from 0 to infinite

everytime the dice spin higher then 62.5 billion you win a block.

Ok I follow that too....

but generating this magic number does take time and bigger number, longer is the time, no ?

then the generation speed doesn't count ?

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4326

Merit: 8899

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: Ziploc on November 01, 2015, 07:35:06 PM

Quote from: -ck on November 01, 2015, 07:19:53 PM

Quote from: Ziploc on November 01, 2015, 07:15:21 PM

let say that this 100TH is in reallity 100*s5

then which is better ?

100TH proxied 100*s5 OR 100* separate s5 Huh

? and why ?

Only total hashrate matters. The rest is irrelevant.

Thank You again and I know you're one of the gurus....honestly (plz don't take me wrong or disprespectfull, I just want to undersand and grasp it)

I want to fully understand and i have a hard time to beleive that,
let say;

100 000 block eruptors will beat a new generation miner

let say 1st gen miner (eruptor) calculates 10 hash/s.....like a bicycle that goes 6mph

and the new one does 100 000 hashes/second........... like a sports car that does 100mph

therefore before the 100 000 eruptors reches the finish line at 6mph the sports car will able to make it 10 times back and forth....

then even if 100 000 eruptors may have more total hash power that newer miner....they don't stand any chances ? isn't this right ?
like 100 bicycles doesn't stand a chance to race with a race car....because they just 100 very slow moving objects....

isn't this like that with the mininig ?

completely wrong concept. like os2sam told you it is not a race

everytime you toss the "magic dice" you can win

so 100,000 BE = 33,000gh that should make more blocks then 5 s-7's which are 24,000gh

the magic dice is a number generator say from 0 to infinite

everytime the dice spin higher then 62.5 billion you win a block.

one of my sidehack usb compac sticks at 9gh -10gh tossed a 2 billion number, right now I have 10th in a rental

http://solo.ckpool.org/users/1JdC6Xg3ajT3rge3FgPNSYYFpmf53Vbtje

and it has only tossed 136,144,419.04909989 far less then 2 billion

os2sam

legendary

Activity: 3583

Merit: 1094

Think for yourself

Quote from: Ziploc on November 01, 2015, 07:35:06 PM

100 000 block eruptors will beat a new generation miner?

100,000 BE's would mine at 33.3 Ths. So if the new generation miner is less than 33.3Ths then yes they would, most likely, beat the new gen miner.

Miles per hour is not a valid analogy. Mining is not a race.

Ziploc

sr. member

Activity: 405

Merit: 250

Quote from: -ck on November 01, 2015, 07:19:53 PM

Quote from: Ziploc on November 01, 2015, 07:15:21 PM

let say that this 100TH is in reallity 100*s5

then which is better ?

100TH proxied 100*s5 OR 100* separate s5 Huh

? and why ?

Only total hashrate matters. The rest is irrelevant.

Thank You again and I know you're one of the gurus....honestly (plz don't take me wrong or disprespectfull, I just want to undersand and grasp it)

I want to fully understand and i have a hard time to beleive that,
let say;

100 000 block eruptors will beat a new generation miner

let say 1st gen miner (eruptor) calculates 10 hash/s.....like a bicycle that goes 6mph

and the new one does 100 000 hashes/second........... like a sports car that does 100mph

therefore before the 100 000 eruptors reches the finish line at 6mph the sports car will able to make it 10 times back and forth....

then even if 100 000 eruptors may have more total hash power that newer miner....they don't stand any chances ? isn't this right ?
like 100 bicycles doesn't stand a chance to race with a race car....because they just 100 very slow moving objects....

isn't this like that with the mininig ?

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4326

Merit: 8899

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: Ziploc on November 01, 2015, 07:15:21 PM

Quote from: philipma1957 on November 01, 2015, 07:01:28 PM

Quote from: Ziploc on November 01, 2015, 06:46:05 PM

Quote from: -ck on November 01, 2015, 06:40:05 PM

Quote from: Ziploc on November 01, 2015, 06:37:41 PM

Thank You CK,

Does it mean that few ''proxied" workers work on the same block in the same time ? like 1 miner

for example s7 does 4,5TH and ''proxied'' workers do 100th ?

Everyone always works on the same block all the time everywhere irrespective of who or what they're mining with and which pool they're on.

ah ok,

what's is the concrete advantage of having a faster miner ? or more hash power like s3 vs s7 ?

I was always thiking that everyone was working on a different block in a round and whoever found it first, reset the round and all start over...

I guess I have to read more....

the s3 tosses "magic dice" 500gh a second

the s7 tosses magic dice 4860gh a second

so the s7 is about 9.5 x faster then the s3

or you need 9.5 s3's to do the work of 1 s7

this I can uderstand...and it's very logical

but going back to my 1st question..

proxied miner than run 100TH will be 200x faster than 1 s3 ? therefore 200 times more chances to resolve the block ?

which means for the purpose of the argument:

let say that this 100TH is in reallity 100*s5

then which is better ?

100TH proxied 100*s5 OR 100* separate s5 Huh

? and why ?

Assuming the proxy is setup correctly and all 100 separate s5's are setup correctly it should be a tie.

-ck

legendary

Activity: 4088

Merit: 1631

Ruu \o/

Quote from: Ziploc on November 01, 2015, 07:15:21 PM

let say that this 100TH is in reallity 100*s5

then which is better ?

100TH proxied 100*s5 OR 100* separate s5 Huh

? and why ?

Only total hashrate matters. The rest is irrelevant.

Ziploc

sr. member

Activity: 405

Merit: 250

Quote from: philipma1957 on November 01, 2015, 07:01:28 PM

Quote from: Ziploc on November 01, 2015, 06:46:05 PM

Quote from: -ck on November 01, 2015, 06:40:05 PM

Quote from: Ziploc on November 01, 2015, 06:37:41 PM

Thank You CK,

Does it mean that few ''proxied" workers work on the same block in the same time ? like 1 miner

for example s7 does 4,5TH and ''proxied'' workers do 100th ?

Everyone always works on the same block all the time everywhere irrespective of who or what they're mining with and which pool they're on.

ah ok,

what's is the concrete advantage of having a faster miner ? or more hash power like s3 vs s7 ?

I was always thiking that everyone was working on a different block in a round and whoever found it first, reset the round and all start over...

I guess I have to read more....

the s3 tosses "magic dice" 500gh a second

the s7 tosses magic dice 4860gh a second

so the s7 is about 9.5 x faster then the s3

or you need 9.5 s3's to do the work of 1 s7

this I can uderstand...and it's very logical

but going back to my 1st question..

proxied miner than run 100TH will be 200x faster than 1 s3 ? therefore 200 times more chances to resolve the block ?

which means for the purpose of the argument:

let say that this 100TH is in reallity 100*s5

then which is better ?

100TH proxied 100*s5 OR 100* separate s5 Huh

? and why ?

Cheeseater

sr. member

Activity: 351

Merit: 250

Quote from: -ck on November 01, 2015, 06:32:14 PM

Quote from: Ziploc on November 01, 2015, 06:31:15 PM

I have a question:

this are his stats :

"hashrate1m": "169T", "hashrate5m": "167T", "hashrate1hr": "146T", "hashrate1d": "15.2T", "hashrate7d": "2.48T", "lastupdate": 1446420514, "workers": 3,

How can he have only 3 workers for 169TH ?

Proxy

Congrats that's real good luck!

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4326

Merit: 8899

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: Ziploc on November 01, 2015, 06:46:05 PM

Quote from: -ck on November 01, 2015, 06:40:05 PM

Quote from: Ziploc on November 01, 2015, 06:37:41 PM

Thank You CK,

Does it mean that few ''proxied" workers work on the same block in the same time ? like 1 miner

for example s7 does 4,5TH and ''proxied'' workers do 100th ?

Everyone always works on the same block all the time everywhere irrespective of who or what they're mining with and which pool they're on.

ah ok,

what's is the concrete advantage of having a faster miner ? or more hash power like s3 vs s7 ?

I was always thiking that everyone was working on a different block in a round and whoever found it first, reset the round and all start over...

I guess I have to read more....

the s3 tosses "magic dice" 500gh a second

the s7 tosses magic dice 4860gh a second

so the s7 is about 9.5 x faster then the s3

or you need 9.5 s3's to do the work of 1 s7

Ziploc

sr. member

Activity: 405

Merit: 250

Quote from: -ck on November 01, 2015, 06:40:05 PM

Quote from: Ziploc on November 01, 2015, 06:37:41 PM

Thank You CK,

Does it mean that few ''proxied" workers work on the same block in the same time ? like 1 miner

for example s7 does 4,5TH and ''proxied'' workers do 100th ?

Everyone always works on the same block all the time everywhere irrespective of who or what they're mining with and which pool they're on.

ah ok,

what's is the concrete advantage of having a faster miner ? or more hash power like s3 vs s7 ?

I was always thiking that everyone was working on a different block in a round and whoever found it first, reset the round and all start over...

I guess I have to read more....

Topic: [∞ YH] solo.ckpool.org 2% fee solo mining USA/DE 255 blocks solved! - page 313. (Read 1514786 times)