Topic: You DO NOT NEED 6 confirmations. - page 2. (Read 2118 times)

Agreed with this. Like anything it is a trade-off between convenience and risk.

Buying a coffee or some low amount for $20-30, 0 confirmations would be fine as the risk is small and the inconvenience the make the customer wait around 10 minutes is great.

Medium transactions of $100+ you might want 1-3 transactions, but by then it is pretty safe, and asking someone to wait for 1 transaction in not unreasonable. Think maybe a shoe store, you buy $200 shoes and they ask you to wait for 1-2 confirmation, probably not a big deal.

Large transactions, maybe $10,000+ you would wait for 6 or more confirmations to be sure. Say you buying that Tesla for $100,000 using bitcoin, It would probably take longer to fill out all the paperwork than the time it would take the 6 confirmations to go through.

This is no different than a bank holding large check deposits before you can withdrawal against them. I can deposit a $100 check my grandma gave me for my birthday and spend it the same day. I deposit a $10,000 check and they might let me spend $100-$200 of the funds right away, but they will hold the rest of the balance until the check clear sin 2-3 days, which is a lot longer than waiting around for 6 bitcoin confirmations.

Update: franky1's comment was not there at the time I wrote this post. Seems in a matter of 3 minutes we had the same thoughts.

generally.. if the goods have to be delivered by post (taking days obviously) you can accept 0 confirms. because you can say payment received. and treat it as items ordered' and within the hour you can receive X amount to the actually dispatch the goods.

as for instant offering.. EG facebook credits. where its easy for facebook to rewind any credits if a orphan happens, that too could work with 0 confirmations.

but when the swap is instant and irreversible. then confirms need to be thought about.

many people say if the value is small.. you could accept the risk of 1 confirm. and add more confirms the higher the value is.
EG a sandwich 1 confirm max..
afterall for a 2% risk you dont want to piss off 100% of customers making them wait more then 10 minutes

a second hand car 3 confirms,
after all it takes over 30 minutes to do the 'pink slip' registration paperwork'

a new car 4 confirms.
after all it takes over 30 minutes to do the 'pink slip' registration paperwork'

and a house 6 confirms
after all it takes over an hour to do the property deed and land registration paperwork

6 confirmations are mostly accepted by xapo, coinbase while other websites are OK with 2-3 confirmations which take about 10 mins minimum. I don't think anyone accepts 0 confirmations as the transaction can be dropped as well.

I've made a transaction today and got 3 confirmations in a few minutes..that's not bad at all!

I think it boils down to transactions sizes... If you shift say $ 1 000 000 .... it would be better to wait for at least 6 to 7 confirmations as a merchant. The risk

is just that much lower, if you wait it out. It would be ridiculous to wait 6 to 7 confirmations for say $1 purchase. If you compare this with other payment

methods out there, 10 minutes will not be an issue for bigger amounts. If you want zero confirmations, use off-chain payment services. 

Most people that are complaining about stuff like this go out and have no problem paying with credit cards with have 180 days of confirmation, bunch of idiots complaining as always.
Lightning Network will will allow for VISA level of volume transactions with several order of magnitude safer. Bitcoin with LN will kill every single competitor.

I think BTC-e have 3 confirmations, and they are safest btc exchange so far.
I'm satisfied how it works but the "graphic" is ridiculous and pointless..

the orphan issue is near to be fixed anyway with sub chain, so if that is the problem for not wanting low number of confirmation, it will not be a problem anymore

but there are other attacks that can be done at 3-4-5 confirmations, merchants want to avoid those more than anything else

LOL, am I so old already.. (strokes his grey-ish beard..)


ADDENDUM :

And even if your txn is in an orphan block, it can still, and almost certainly WILL, be added to the new chain. Your counterpart would actively need to be trying to cheat you.. for this not to be the case.

3 would be the safest bet, but that's for online deposits kind of transaction. For those simple on-purchases 3 would already be too long to wait.

even most of exchanges go with 2 confirmation, there's does exist some exchanger that require 6 confirmation and i've seen few debit card provider need 6 confirmation too

I think it's only a "security" manner to manage each deposit for an exchange, normally a lot of sites accept one confirmation

Even exchanges go with 1 or 2 Confirmations now-a-days....
you're talking old school

0 confs are fine too if you just buy a cup of coffee or something like that.

Mathematically - yes. Real World, nowhere near.
..

A lot of comments keep coming up where a user says - Bitcoin is SLOWW! You need to wait an hour (6 confirmations) before your txn is confirmed!

This is simply not backed up by the data.

When you look at the orphan block rate, Bitcoin has, on average, about 2-3 orphans a day. A DAY.. out of 144 blocks.

https://blockchain.info/charts/n-orphaned-blocks

AND - these are not consecutive blocks. So every few hours, 1 block gets orphaned. That means that there has been a mini-fork, but that it only lasts 1 block.

I would love to see a graph that showed the longest orphan chain per day, if someone knows where to get this ?

What this all boils down to, is that anyone who is waiting longer than 2 confirmations (just to be ULTRA sure) for a btc txn, is wasting their time. Since the BTC chain has consistently shown that after 2 confirmations your txn is going to be accepted 4 more blocks down the line..

And quite frankly, 1 confirmation is fine. (3/144 = 2% chance of being in an orphan block = 98% safe)

( And lets not even get started on how long it takes to send money across the world using conventional methods. That's a blood bath.. )

Enjoy!