Topic: You don't need a mobile device to make lightning payments (Read 434 times)

I do not want to piss on the parade here, but is the whole idea of the Lightning Network not to have a 100% digital payment network? we will go backwards, if we start the physical printing of "money" again. 

The whole idea of Bitcoin, was to replace the old way of physically printing money and now people want to go back to that again? Nope, I think you must go back to the drawing board with your idea and eliminate the "printing" idea.   

Like I said I open also to using a plastic (or other material) card that would work like a credit card with daily limits and approved merchants (identified with public keys). The paper bills would be a backup choice for untrusted merchants or when your phone battery dies, just a primitive way to pay without strings attached.

I would like to dispell the myth that you need a mobile device to pay at a store with lightning. I personally don't carry a phone or such device with me when I am outside.

I think it is quite simple actually.

1) Set up a lightning node at home
2) Print little paper bills with QR codes that act as one time auth keys for telling your node to send money with lightning. Print different denominations such as 10k satoshi, 50k satoshi, 100k satoshi
3) At the store, whatever the price, you give the paper bills and they scan them, and (as long as they have a computer with an internet connection) then your node sends the right amount. The denomination of the bill would specify the maximum that your node would send for the auth key. So if you have to pay the store cashier 152k satoshi, then you would give a 100k bill, a 50k bill, and a 10k bill. Yes they may steal 8k satoshi from the extra amount allowed by your 10k bill, but that's worth like 50 cents now, so it's a small risk, and you can use smaller denominations if you wish.

This type of setup would need a standard protocol that nodes use and cashiers would have on their computers, so would be worth starting on this if someone wants.

Edit: You can also use plastic/cardboard cards with a fixed code that has a daily limit and you can set "approved merchants" that are identified by public keys, and each merchant can have a unique daily limit.

It gets even better. OP's giving an example where he has a specific amount to spend. Like he knows that there are things worth $10, $5, $1 at the store and he takes all of these in the form of qr codes. But what if you're going to a mall, ready to spend a few hundred USD. Are you going to print 3x 100, 5x 50, 10x10 and then juggle these bills around while the clerk scans? This would have to be the slowest and most annoying way to pay at a store. Only a true nerd would choose it.

It gets even better. OP's giving an example where he has a specific amount to spend. Like he knows that there are things worth $10, $5, $1 at the store and he takes all of these in the form of qr codes. But what if you're going to a mall, ready to spend a few hundred USD. Are you going to print 3x 100, 5x 50, 10x10 and then juggle these bills around while the clerk scans? This would have to be the slowest and most annoying way to pay at a store. Only a true nerd would choose it.

It gets even better. OP's giving an example where he has a specific amount to spend. Like he knows that there are things worth $10, $5, $1 at the store and he takes all of these in the form of qr codes. But what if you're going to a mall, ready to spend a few hundred USD. Are you going to print 3x 100, 5x 50, 10x10 and then juggle these bills around while the clerk scans? This would have to be the slowest and most annoying way to pay at a store. Only a true nerd would choose it.

exactly my thoughts. why would you want to use bitcoin if you want to carry around a "piece of paper", just use cash, it is more convenient that way and it is accepted everywhere.

even if you wanted to use bitcoin then why use lightning network? why not simply use bitcoin with on-chain transactions? you can print private keys each containing a certain amount of bitcoin in them (10k, 50k,...) and go around giving them as money and if there is "change" you can also print an "address" on the same paper which they can send the change back to.

I do not want to piss on the parade here, but is the whole idea of the Lightning Network not to have a 100% digital payment network? we will go backwards, if we start the physical printing of "money" again.  

I do not want to piss on the parade here, but is the whole idea of the Lightning Network not to have a 100% digital payment network? we will go backwards, if we start the physical printing of "money" again. 

The whole idea of Bitcoin, was to replace the old way of physically printing money and now people want to go back to that again? Nope, I think you must go back to the drawing board with your idea and eliminate the "printing" idea.   

I would like to dispell the myth that you need a mobile device to pay at a store with lightning. I personally don't carry a phone or such device with me when I am outside.

I think it is quite simple actually.

1) Set up a lightning node at home
2) Print little paper bills with QR codes that act as one time auth keys for telling your node to send money with lightning. Print different denominations such as 10k satoshi, 50k satoshi, 100k satoshi
3) At the store, whatever the price, you give the paper bills and they scan them, and (as long as they have a computer with an internet connection) then your node sends the right amount. The denomination of the bill would specify the maximum that your node would send for the auth key. So if you have to pay the store cashier 152k satoshi, then you would give a 100k bill, a 50k bill, and a 10k bill. Yes they may steal 8k satoshi from the extra amount allowed by your 10k bill, but that's worth like 50 cents now, so it's a small risk, and you can use smaller denominations if you wish.

This type of setup would need a standard protocol that nodes use and cashiers would have on their computers, so would be worth starting on this if someone wants.

Ya basically. A protocol like this would need to be standardized of course, it's still not existent. But for privacy reasons, security reasons (phone gets hacked), and other reasons, I don't like to use a phone, and would prefer just to pay by paper, so if others feel that way, then we can create something, and it could be more accessible to a wider variety of people. No rush Just brainstorming and making it clear because I keep seeing posts saying you need a mobile phone to pay by lightning, and you can't have anything equivalent to a paper wallet.