Topic: You know what's racist? (Read 2485 times)

im from austria, i don't know much about ron paul but payed attention to him the last 2 years or so cause i heard alot...

some thoughts:

1. i doubt he has any chance of winning
2. he is -kind- of republican which -kind- of speaks for itself
3. he is "libertarian" - a term which is very disputed - i call myself also libertarian most of the time, cause im kind of a libertarian socialist (anarchist/anarchosyndicalist/antifascist/progressive communist), but the "libertarian" ron paul uses is rather right wing than anarchist.
4. weapons for everybody, criminalize abortion and beeing a conservative patriotic protectionist .. well, kind of outdated, isn't it?
5. i apreciate his antiimperalism, thought i think its rather more populism than serious
6. and finally: obamas comming 4 years will certainly come with more change than the last 4 years did

summa summarum: i would reelect obama. maybe with some urge to  but ron paul would also give me some 

I always thought that Britain was very savvy in dumping the colonial burden of Palestine before it became the problem it is today. The U.N. never had any authority to do what it did other than that which came from the guns of the western colonial powers. It certainly never was selected by the residents of Palestine as their representative.

I recall seeing an interview with Dean Rusk who was present at the U.N. during the colonialist handover of Palestine to a group of European opportunists. In the interview he made that point that the U.N. was crawling with lawyers representing the colonials but there was no such representation of the current natives of the region being appropriated. Funny how that worked.

Israel will go the way of Rhodesia, South Africa, Vietnam, and many others, whether it be the hard way or the not so hard way. In 2009 the US CIA projected this to take place in the next 20 years barring material changes in the policy of Israel towards the locals who have been ground under its heel for over sixty years.

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2011/10/10/panetta-to-netanyahu-israel-may-not-survive-the-current-arabislamic-awakening/

Good for you.  The system needs more people who pay their taxes and don't bother their pretty little heads about where the money goes.

I hate ron paul and obama and all politicians in the world. I'm not voting for anyone

Israel is quite legitimate. It was approved as a country by the UN and is allowed to exist. The fact that it was repeatedly attacked by third parys does not change that.

That's stupid. Israel is not the US. It should not be a deciding factor in voting for President. Let Israel and the middle east handle their own affairs and keep the US out of it - none of our business.

Strange, though. I have some Jewish friends who absolutely hate Ron Paul because of his stance on foreign aid to Israel and his stance on foreign policy in the rest of the middle east. Ron Paul was the only candidate not invited to the Republican Jewish Coalition debate - they purposefully and openly excluded him because of his stance towards Israel.

It's like how pro-life people don't like Paul because he wouldn't want legislation passed that bans abortion - but pro-choice people don't like him because he is personally pro-life. Gay rights people don't like him because he's not for federally defined marriage and anti-gay marriage people don't like him because he's against defining marriage at all! He can't catch a break with some of you unflinching folks with tunnel-vision, huh?

And be careful what you label as 'we' - when I worked on the Ron Paul campaign 4 years ago and organized a rally here in Ann Arbor, we had a TON of supporters coming in from Dearborn. Your view on this matter is not mainstream when it comes to how most American Arabs/Persians/etc or Muslims in general feel. At least not the majority attitude in Michigan.


America is not legitimate. What state is? Government is not legitimate. Ownership is not legitimate. Palestinians are not a people and Israelis are not a people. You are a person.

Recognizing the existence of Israel does not necessarily mean you agree with all of their current geographical borders.

I'm pretty sure Ron Paul has not said anything about who he thinks owns what land in this area of the world. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Ron Paul is the least racist candidate.
He's against collectivist thought. He's against the war on drugs, which hurts minorities more so than any other group. He's against the federal death penalty because minorities are prosecuted most often and received it as punishment at a disproportionate amount.
He's against military aggression and policing the world, spreading our military thin and requiring questionable tactics in recruiting new troops.
He's against corporate welfare and federal bank bailouts.

Homophobe? His 2008 campaign manager was openly gay and likely died of AIDs (right at the end of his campaign). He wants no ban on gay marriage. He believes in the right of any two people to contract. He wants religious values that define marriage to have nothing to do with the federal government.

And when it comes down to it, attacking him on his personality does very little. Unlike most candidates for office, you're not voting on a personality or personal beliefs; you're voting on a political and ideological platform.

Recognizing Israel as a country is far, far different than being an ally of Israel.

The US also recognized the USSR as a country.


Israel recognizes Iran as a country, does that mean that Israel and Iran are allies?

Just because his rhetoric is not explicitly anti-Israel, does not mean he is pro-Israel. As'ad AbuKhalil is simply wrong on this one.

Ron Paul on Gaza 1-3-09
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08gTWqWrI4M


Ron Paul Right On Ground Zero 'Mosque'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wur6BH5i0so


This one is the most telling:
Ron Paul on Nancy Pelosi, listen carefully to what he says
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdJIWsbXIak
Doesn't sound like pro-Israel to me


Again, for the second time, Ron refers to Israel treatment of Gaza is like a concentration camp (unheard of from US politicians, Republican or Democrat)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1t4O9CcZQ0


Also regarding the racist claims against Ron Paul, here's a reality check
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-mVe88Nt1s



There's a strong propaganda effort going on against Ron Paul at the moment from the Establishment, so it's best to be very careful about the facts. I like As'ad AbuKhalil just as much as you do, but he is not an infallible source after all, and especially not on US political subtleties.

True. Look at what he's said in the past. Look at the fact that he's not seen as unconditionally "pro-Israel" by anyone outside of angryarab.blogspot.com. He's a friend of Israel in that he believes they deserve their sovereignty (just as any country does), but he doesn't believe that their ruling class is entitled to any of our money (just as any other country isn't). To say one way or the other that his actions or words give any preferential treatment to any country (with the exception of America) is outright incorrect. Most of the Muslims I've talked politics with agree that Ron Paul is right, if only on foreign policy. The Israel lobby does not control the presidency. Sure there are certain pro-Israel groups who have a lot of influence (just like AARP does or the NRA), but being in or out of favor with any of these groups does not guarantee anything one way or the other.

Uh, no. The bolded part is the opposite of describing Ron Paul.

This is misleading. He voted against condemning the Israeli attack just as he voted against condemning Hamas rocket fire. It's a matter of principle, and that principle is non-interventionism. To paint him as pro-Israel because of that is disengenuous. When asked about Israel, he says the US should treat it like any other country, and stop the foreign and military aid to them. You have to understand that this is US politics, and the Israel lobby is the one that most strongly affects US foreign policy.  This means that all the other GOP candidates, when they went to the Republican Jewish Forum (FROM WHICH PAUL WAS EXCLUDED BY THE WAY), they all were trying to pander hard and one up eachother on who loves Israel the most. You can't realistically expect Ron Paul to make anti-Israel rhetoric and still win office. This will not happen. Especially not with the Israeli grip on US politics, with the Christian Zionist movement, and with the large evangelical base in American voters. This is not even a GOP thing, Democrats are just as zionist as the GOP.

Are there countries whose sovereignty he hasn't stood up for? If the attack would've been on Israel, is there any evidence to suggest he wouldn't have supported Iraq's sovereignty?

It's cute that you think Ron Paul will really get this done and doesn't have inherently racist policies with plenty of fallout as well.

First, there is a difference between 'civil rights' and The Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Second, Ron Paul was not in Congress in 1964 to vote on said act. He has said he approved of eliminating racial discrimination from government actions but opposes federal laws against private businesses discriminating on race.

Atlas, since I have proof it's you, can you explain why you are evading Theymos' ban just to comment on your abandoned threads?

No, he voted for civil rights at a state level.

Ron Paul voted against civil rights