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Topic: Your all-new, full custom Bitcoin casino is here ;) (Read 27356 times)

hero member
Activity: 568
Merit: 500
So what i'm asking myself, sending check with gambling winnings to someone in US might be clearly interpereted like intentional breaking of the law. But if you lack the technological setup to online ID everyone of your visitors are you still as responsible?

It's a very good question. But law is a funny thing. Imagine trying to convince a judge and jury that you had the ability to set up an online casino with a cryptocurrency, but didn't have the ability to check IP addresses. I think the question that the US Government would ask would be: Did you take all reasonable steps within your power to prevent breaking the law? And for us it's important that we have.
member
Activity: 90
Merit: 10
good points

I see that bodog was actually sending checks to winners in US (Maryland) which is pretty clear indication that they don't care to keep the law.
But if you pay in bitcoins you don't know where the receiver is. The only thing left is IP checking, but with proxies, vpns and so on that's technologically hard to achieve and not sure if reliable.

So what i'm asking myself, sending check with gambling winnings to someone in US might be clearly interpereted like intentional breaking of the law. But if you lack the technological setup to online ID everyone of your visitors are you still as responsible?
hero member
Activity: 568
Merit: 500
Of course, I agree we shouldn't have to police their citizens for them... however. In terms of online gambling, American law does not make a distinction between dollars or other currencies, or even non-currency items of value. Even if Bitcoin is in no way a currency, if it can be exchanged for something of value and an American can wager it online, that's illegal gambling. It doesn't matter what the thing of value is - it could be gold or baseball cards, or Linden $. This is why Second Life had to shut down all the in-world casinos.

your citizenship shouldn't matter, since it's companies responsibility not personal one, right?

This is not quite correct. The US has a history of directly prosecuting the owners and operators of online casinos that have taken US players, even if those operators are not US citizens and the company is based outside the US. They started this by arresting the chairman of SportingBet when his plane touched down in New York:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/08/technology/08iht-gamble.2743111.html?_r=0

This goes up to the present day with the indictment of Calvin Ayre, a Canadian citizen:
http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/news/story/2012/02/29/bodog-calvin-ayre-indicted.html

And there is at least one story of a US citizen being pulled off a domestic Australian flight that was code shared with American Airlines, and flown to the US for connections with an online casino that was taking US players.

It's just not worth the risk to accept American bets - even if it is only Bitcoin. However,
US laws are not global...yet.
This is of course true, which is why we welcome players from outside the US!
member
Activity: 90
Merit: 10
It's an old thread but very interesting and i just spend like 2 hours to read it all very carefully.
I can't resist to ask, why you should be doing the US government job and police it's citizens? You are not based in US, you don't host in US, you basically don't use US currency (except it's called dollars formally in the games but you use BTC to cash in/cash out). Why you are policing for them? Shouldn't they control their citizens and punish THEM not you if they violate the law? After all there are 100+ countries, you can't be responsible for all their laws.
You should care for the laws in the countries where you are based physically and where you host (and maybe where your domain is registered?). I understand you are US citizens and have plans for business in US, but the company is CR, so your citizenship shouldn't matter, since it's companies responsibility not personal one, right? And about the possible ventures in US, ok I kinda feel you here but still, i'm kinda pissed that US laws are taken for worldwide laws nowadays.
Yeah I know they will send drones to bomb and kill your kids if you don't play by their rules but the new world order is not here yet, we have many countries and US laws are not global...yet.


p.s.
just needed to vent a little, but still discussion in that point would be nice as well Smiley
Congrats on the great casino, over one year later, how is it doing?
full member
Activity: 128
Merit: 100
How do you verify nation of residence? 

They probably use IP - they filter out TOR and vpns - I can't get on due to my VPN for example...

NICE site from the video...
hero member
Activity: 568
Merit: 500
Thanks for joining alkhdaniel ------ and winning as we found out.

No worries about being shorthanded. Great beginnings are always humble.

Next week, we'll warm up with a few low-stakes freerolls before the big tourney, and our 1st place winner for the week "satoshi" (that's his name on our site, folx, but he won't confirm or deny) gets a free buyin. Everybody's invited... free Coin for all Grin

For now, congratulations to the winners!
member
Activity: 114
Merit: 10
10 minutes until the first freeroll  Grin
If 2 more people registers for it, not looking bright :/

edit: nvm, seems like you changed to 3 people minimum?
hero member
Activity: 568
Merit: 500
10 minutes until the first freeroll  Grin
full member
Activity: 208
Merit: 100
Risk-hedging platform for cryptocurrency investors
Quote
Dear Sapphire Player,

StrikeSapphire.com presents our first-ever Bitcoin freeroll!

SUNDAY, 8pm (GMT), we're offering a $100 NL Hold'em Freeroll to all players for a 200 Player Point buyin. 5 players minimum, 20 players (two tables) max.

If we fill 15+ seats, we'll double the pot to $200.

The 1st place winner of the tournament will also receive an automatic buyin to next week's main event.

There are six players so far who've earned 200 player points. If your name is ColdGuy, rikurr, David, Sauviech, Repro or Solloway, you've earned enough points to buy in. If not...you may be closer than you think. You can check your Player Points at any time through the Account > History menu. We reward a point for every $0.25 you wager with us.

Signups start 6 hours beofre the tournament...

Bring yo' kids!

Sweet! Count me in, I've got 2.2K player points so 200 seems like a bargain. Just hoping we reach 5 players, therefor this post I guess.
hero member
Activity: 568
Merit: 500
...and we thought it would be too confusing for players to be converting in and out of bitcoin before sitting at each table, so we front-loaded it. What might happen, eventually, is we might just bail on USD and run the whole thing in Bitcoin. But that depends on how easy it becomes to move other currencies in and out... and we're planning to start taking other types of payments down the line as well.

Yes please bail on the USD. All of us are short USD and you don't allow new US players anyway. So why should anyone convert CHF to BTC to USD to BTC to CHF?

Also why (aside from beautiful land, sea, and culture) have you specifically established in Costa Rica. Had you considered Antigua and Barbuda or other countries?

Well, it's easier said than done (converting our site out of USD), and it might be awhile. As far as we're concerned, USD is as good a type of poker chip as anything else. Possibly better, because everybody knows what it's worth. One of our goals is to attract players who've never touched Bitcoin and may not be comfortable with it beyond using it as a deposit/withdrawal method. Long-term, conversion would depend on whether what we're doing works for us, and whether we end up doing a majority of our deposits in BTC or in other currencies. Any such change is at least six months out. EUR is another logical contender.

We're based in Costa Rica quite simply because CR takes the (logical) position that online gambling occurs at the player's terminal, and in the player's country. This stance is valid under WTO rules and international law, and leaves us essentially with the problem of self-enforcement re: players and/or advertising in other countries we might want to visit which don't take the same view. Costa Rica's neutral position is why most CR casinos continue to accept US players. We've considered a lot of options, and continue to weigh licensing in other jurisdictions alongside our current data processing corp. Because of the sensitivity surrounding online gaming and the fact that it's a small industry where everyone seems to know each other, I don't really want to get into an interview on the pros and cons of various jurisdictions here. Check out the casinomeister.com forum for heaps of info on the topic.

I think it's well-understood that CR doesn't perform the same types of audits as many other countries, but we hold ourselves to a higher level of transparency, as we aren't just a casino but a software company, and we need to be able to license our software to operators in any legal jurisdiction -- including, eventually, the US (see https://strikesapphire.com/reports and our TOS for more about our transparency and randomness measures).
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 251
FirstBits: 168Bc
...and we thought it would be too confusing for players to be converting in and out of bitcoin before sitting at each table, so we front-loaded it. What might happen, eventually, is we might just bail on USD and run the whole thing in Bitcoin. But that depends on how easy it becomes to move other currencies in and out... and we're planning to start taking other types of payments down the line as well.

Yes please bail on the USD. All of us are short USD and you don't allow new US players anyway. So why should anyone convert CHF to BTC to USD to BTC to CHF?

Also why (aside from beautiful land, sea, and culture) have you specifically established in Costa Rica. Had you considered Antigua and Barbuda or other countries?
hero member
Activity: 568
Merit: 500
I'm going to keep my banner.   Grin

I like it a lot, actually. Whatever's workin', let it ride Wink
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1006
I don't see any banners?

Disable your ad-blocker.

*worked*

Added forum.bitcoin.org to Ad-block+ exclusions.

I'm going to keep my banner.   Grin
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
It's called due diligence. We have a multi-stage process, and this is part of it. Not blocking IPs would signal that we don't care, or that we aren't doing everything in our power to block American players.
Using geolocation database, e.g. MaxMind, will be enough.

In the US, fraudulently gathered evidence is inadmissible.
In Russia and Eastern Europe it is the same de jure, but I can tell many examples where courts accepted these evidence.
hero member
Activity: 563
Merit: 501
betwithbtc.com
I don't see any banners?

Disable your ad-blocker.
hero member
Activity: 568
Merit: 500
I don't see any banners?

Hmm. Weird. I see them... Can you go to these links?

https://strikesapphire.com/promo/468x60.gif
https://strikesapphire.com/promo/728x90.gif
https://strikesapphire.com/promo/300x250.gif

Could be our blocking's going a little too crazy...

I'm mirroring them here...






legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1006
I don't see any banners?
hero member
Activity: 568
Merit: 500
Maybe I was kind of stretching the analogy. Bottom line: We don't want to break the laws of any country. Even for loads of cash.

Anyway, on a separate note...New banners for affiliates!!!

--------468 x 60-------


--------728 x 90-------


--------300 x 250-------
hero member
Activity: 530
Merit: 500
and the foreign company delivers that pornography to the US, the company committed a crime under US law

"Foreign" people and companies seldom care about US law though since it doesn't apply to them. It might make travels harder for the future, and some laws (copyright etc) are by agreement similar in many countries, but your example wasn't the best.

Who knows - maybe the content of your post just broke a law in my country. It's neither your nor bitcoin.org's problem though Wink
hero member
Activity: 568
Merit: 500
I repeat, why do you block IPs? It is absolute ridiculous! By doing this, you can only minimize probability that U.S. player can register, NOT eliminate it. Even your filter has 99.999% accuracy, chance to register still remains. With power that have USA law enforcement agencies they can easily cheat your filter, register, deposit money and charge you THE SAME you have not implemented any blocking. Give me 2 BTC, for them I can buy high-privacy VPN account that  provides unique static IP in most countries and is not in any blacklist.

It's called due diligence. We have a multi-stage process, and this is part of it. Not blocking IPs would signal that we don't care, or that we aren't doing everything in our power to block American players. Look at it from our perspective. If someone lies about where they're coming from and has to use a VPN to access our service, they've violated our TOS in multiple ways and committed fraud. In the US, fraudulently gathered evidence is inadmissible.

In some countries the age of consent is 16. If a Federal agent uses a US address to order porn with 16 year old girls, and the foreign company delivers that pornography to the US, the company committed a crime under US law. If, however, they use an address in Germany and a fake name, fake ID, and lie about it; then have the porn delivered to a house and boxed up by somebody who takes it to DHL and ships it to the States, then who is committing the crime? Not the company that printed the magazine.

I think I've been pretty clear about our general philosophy on the matter...you're free to disagree and think it's stupid, of course, but we're a limited membership private club and we're doing things our own way. Are you in the US by the way? Are you blocked?
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