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Topic: Your Economic Recovery Program - page 2. (Read 3129 times)

legendary
Activity: 1658
Merit: 1001
July 25, 2011, 05:12:55 AM
#30
http://tarpley.net/five-point-program.pdf

30 MILLION PRODUCTIVE JOBS TO REBUILD US INFRASTRUCTURE, INDUSTRY AND
AGRICULTURE: THE PROGRAM TO END THE ECONOMIC DEPRESSION
 
by Webster G. Tarpley, www.tarpley.net
November 14, 2009

Wow, I would like to see the financial picture of that in detail. Very interesting.

Although I don't think the average US citizen would accept such socialist plan (looking back at the discussion of the health reform plan of Obama). I think the democrats might be able to get enough support from their people to implement such plan, but the republicans would not give them the opportunity to do so.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
July 25, 2011, 04:59:09 AM
#29
That's not necessarily a bad thing. By definition, if there are no more jobs for humans to do, every human need will have been met.
No, that's not right. Assuming that you still need food, water and shelter, how exactly would you convince anyone who owns the means of production to produce for you if you have nothing to offer them in return?

Well, either way you look at it, in a society where every need is met by robots, there won't be anyone who "has not"... at least, not for long.
sr. member
Activity: 321
Merit: 250
Firstbits: 1gyzhw
July 25, 2011, 04:49:01 AM
#28
As a singularitarian and technology geek I welcome our robot overlords, I just can't imagine new types of jobs for humans if technological change continues at its current rate.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. By definition, if there are no more jobs for humans to do, every human need will have been met.
[/quote]
No, that's not right. Assuming that you still need food, water and shelter, how exactly would you convince anyone who owns the means of production to produce for you if you have nothing to offer them in return?
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
July 25, 2011, 04:43:02 AM
#27
http://tarpley.net/five-point-program.pdf

30 MILLION PRODUCTIVE JOBS TO REBUILD US INFRASTRUCTURE, INDUSTRY AND
AGRICULTURE: THE PROGRAM TO END THE ECONOMIC DEPRESSION
 
by Webster G. Tarpley, www.tarpley.net
November 14, 2009
 


US infrastructure is pretty fucked up.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
July 25, 2011, 04:35:50 AM
#26
http://tarpley.net/five-point-program.pdf

30 MILLION PRODUCTIVE JOBS TO REBUILD US INFRASTRUCTURE, INDUSTRY AND
AGRICULTURE: THE PROGRAM TO END THE ECONOMIC DEPRESSION
 
by Webster G. Tarpley, www.tarpley.net
November 14, 2009
 
legendary
Activity: 1658
Merit: 1001
July 25, 2011, 04:25:28 AM
#25
Since we are still in a Global Economic World Wide Depression

Global? Only the 1st world are affected. Anything outside the Americas, Europe and Australia are doing just fine.
hero member
Activity: 2086
Merit: 501
★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!
July 25, 2011, 04:07:39 AM
#24
Since we are still in a Global Economic World Wide Depression I'm wondering what the general consensus is out there regarding:

1) What caused it (primarily)
2) What is your plan to get out of it (includes any laws or programs you would add or repeal)


I'll post my program after I put some finishing touches on it.

Fractional Reserve Banking is the main culprit IMO, together with assorted laws like legal tender and such. They have enabled the US & other govts to drown themselves in debt. You cannot fix anything without abolishing this system. It is designed to concentrate wealth in the hands of a few and this will continue no matter what policies are implemented. Millions may die due to the ensuing political and economic chaos, but this is largely unavoidable. You simply cannot run an entire planet on a flawed monetary system for decades and expect to fix things without pain.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
July 22, 2011, 09:56:25 PM
#23
Someone has confused saying automation has caused the current economic situation with saying technology displacing workers is bad. It's not bad per se. However it has been used in a way that the end result is bad.

Stop trying to read between the lines.

hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
July 22, 2011, 09:37:27 PM
#22
At least this batch of techno-alarmists is more entertaining than the last 50.

Fire bad! Thok like cold meat! Wheel Bad! Thok like walking!
As a singularitarian and technology geek I welcome our robot overlords, I just can't imagine new types of jobs for humans if technological change continues at its current rate.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. By definition, if there are no more jobs for humans to do, every human need will have been met.
sr. member
Activity: 321
Merit: 250
Firstbits: 1gyzhw
July 22, 2011, 09:28:06 PM
#21
At least this batch of techno-alarmists is more entertaining than the last 50.

Fire bad! Thok like cold meat! Wheel Bad! Thok like walking!
As a singularitarian and technology geek I welcome our robot overlords, I just can't imagine new types of jobs for humans if technological change continues at its current rate.

If AI can do every job a skilled and creative human can, you've got a lot more to worry about than your naughty bits.
I completely agree. Fire up the paperclip maximizer, we've got a solar system to tile!

I agree that automation doesn't nec hurt workers, but it doesn't nec help them either under the current arrangement, as most of the profit from that productivity gain gets captured by the super-rich. If we lived in a different socioeconomic system, I'd be a lot more excited about advancements that allow productivity to be gained, because then it is much more liekly that people will actually have the choice to work less and maintain a basic standard of living - eg the mythical world where the dripfeed essentially provides you basic shelter and food for next to nothing and one can build on top of that.

Yeah, Russell wrote about a 4-hour work day almost 80 years ago. We've got all this extra productivity and no extra slack, no change at all.
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
firstbits: 121vnq
July 22, 2011, 09:18:45 PM
#20
If AI can do every job a skilled and creative human can, you've got a lot more to worry about than your naughty bits.

--

I agree that automation doesn't nec hurt workers, but it doesn't nec help them either under the current arrangement, as most of the profit from that productivity gain gets captured by the super-rich. If we lived in a different socioeconomic system, I'd be a lot more excited about advancements that allow productivity to be gained, because then it is much more liekly that people will actually have the choice to work less and maintain a basic standard of living - eg the mythical world where the dripfeed essentially provides you basic shelter and food for next to nothing and one can build on top of that.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
July 22, 2011, 09:16:25 PM
#19
Automation doesn't wreck the economy. Imagine how many scribes were put out of work when the printing press was invented.
Imagine how many harvesters were put out of work when the tractor was invented.
Automation doesn't ruin the economy, it shifts it.

We'll see about that in the next few decades when AI can not only do any job that even the most skilled and creative human can do, but can be trained much faster than the redundant human workforce. Prostitution might survive for a while, but I don't fancy manning a glory hole through my golden years

At least this batch of techno-alarmists is more entertaining than the last 50.

Fire bad! Thok like cold meat! Wheel Bad! Thok like walking!
sr. member
Activity: 321
Merit: 250
Firstbits: 1gyzhw
July 22, 2011, 09:11:21 PM
#18
Automation doesn't wreck the economy. Imagine how many scribes were put out of work when the printing press was invented.
Imagine how many harvesters were put out of work when the tractor was invented.
Automation doesn't ruin the economy, it shifts it.

We'll see about that in the next few decades when AI can not only do any job that even the most skilled and creative human can do, but can be trained much faster than the redundant human workforce. Prostitution might survive for a while, but I don't fancy manning a glory hole through my golden years
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
July 22, 2011, 08:23:42 PM
#17
Since we are still in a Global Economic World Wide Depression I'm wondering what the general consensus is out there regarding:

1) What caused it (primarily)
2) What is your plan to get out of it (includes any laws or programs you would add or repeal)


I'll post my program after I put some finishing touches on it.

1. Automation.

Automation?

Don't tell me you're one of those "Robots will doom the workforce!!!1one!" people are you?

It's more than robots.
Barcode scanners for example
 Less than 50 years ago you could raise a family as a clerk. Now they have you doing it yourself.
Automated cars are a decade away. Do you have any idea how many people drive for work?
Just wait . You'll see.

Automation doesn't wreck the economy. Imagine how many scribes were put out of work when the printing press was invented.
Imagine how many harvesters were put out of work when the tractor was invented.
Automation doesn't ruin the economy, it shifts it.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
July 22, 2011, 08:10:58 PM
#16
Since we are still in a Global Economic World Wide Depression I'm wondering what the general consensus is out there regarding:

1) What caused it (primarily)
2) What is your plan to get out of it (includes any laws or programs you would add or repeal)


I'll post my program after I put some finishing touches on it.

1. Automation.

Automation?

Don't tell me you're one of those "Robots will doom the workforce!!!1one!" people are you?

It's more than robots.
Barcode scanners for example
 Less than 50 years ago you could raise a family as a clerk. Now they have you doing it yourself.
Automated cars are a decade away. Do you have any idea how many people drive for work?
Just wait . You'll see.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
July 22, 2011, 07:52:10 PM
#15
Since we are still in a Global Economic World Wide Depression I'm wondering what the general consensus is out there regarding:

1) What caused it (primarily)
2) What is your plan to get out of it (includes any laws or programs you would add or repeal)


I'll post my program after I put some finishing touches on it.

1. Automation.

Automation?

Don't tell me you're one of those "Robots will doom the workforce!!!1one!" people are you?
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
July 22, 2011, 07:46:24 PM
#14
Since we are still in a Global Economic World Wide Depression I'm wondering what the general consensus is out there regarding:

1) What caused it (primarily)
2) What is your plan to get out of it (includes any laws or programs you would add or repeal)


I'll post my program after I put some finishing touches on it.

1. Automation.

2. What Depression?
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
July 22, 2011, 07:00:37 PM
#13
Since we are still in a Global Economic World Wide Depression I'm wondering what the general consensus is out there regarding:

1) What caused it (primarily)
2) What is your plan to get out of it (includes any laws or programs you would add or repeal)


I'll post my program after I put some finishing touches on it.

1) Printing money will-nilly.
2) STOP!

Simple, brief, yes... But added complexity wouldn't help anything.

So a deflationary panic meltdown of the market by cutting off all new credit?

This would result in millions of deaths and probably WWIII.

Try again.

Because without an excess of credit, the wealth it represents would disappear.

Yeah, this is a massive simplification. Honestly, the correct answer under the ideal conditions would be "End legal tender", "End most federal agencies (assuming we are recovering the US economy", "Cut taxes" and "Pull out of any international organizations that would attempt to stop the US from doing this for being a so-called tax haven (UN, World Bank, etc)" in that order. Without doing that, the best option would be "No bailouts, wait out recession, then jack up rates to clear out excess credit" (Kind of like the Volcker solution).

Volckner solved less than he caused.  His actions devastated the industrial sector of the USA while chasing phantoms of inflation.  Inflation is about 13th on what the average person should be demanding out of a central bank policy.  In addition much of what the Central Banks consider inflation is a rise in wages -- to which they are against.  A 20% prime rate is exactly what we don't need right now.  That would cause incredible misery and hardship for 99% of the world and favor those that have money in this economy which really only is the rich and super rich, everyone else's effective debt burden would be greatly expounded by the deflation this would cause.  Works great for the bankers though, they sign you on to some debt when money is cheap (low interest rates) and then get you to pay that back after the price of money is made very expensive (high interest rates).



Uh, what?

Have you even heard of prices in the 70s? The US was a couple of clumsy rate decreases away from hyperinflation and collapse. Had Volcker not increased rates, the US would have been screwed over and Jimmy Carter's idiotic new government agencies wouldn't have helped in the slightest. As it was, he dealt with inflation and the US recovered from the recession and began to grow again. A lot of the growth was from easy credit policies, but at the very least the malinvestment of the past thirty years was cleared out and the economy was far healthier in the long run as a result. Mind, a solution like that might not work this time, it might take a more radical push (again, removing legal tender), but it would at the very least be better than bailouts, easy lending, lots of inflation, bailouts for other countries trying equally retarded strategies (Japan and the Eurozone lack the "worldwide reserve currency" status of the USA), and stagnation.

The facts of the 80s disagree with your wild claims about catastrophe from high rates.


Quote
The overall lack of solutions being posted to this board proves the general ignorance of the member of this forum on economics.  That goes for all that aren't reading this.

 

This depression can be stopped almost overnight, this is a political problem not a failing of economics or a lack of solutions that do exist if we seek to find them.

"DAMN IT YOU GUYS! YOU AREN'T COMING TO THE CONCLUSIONS I WANT SO IMMA CLAIM YOU DIDN'T PROVIDE ANY SOLUTIONS"

derp

hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
July 22, 2011, 06:57:59 PM
#12
The overall lack of solutions being posted to this board proves the general ignorance of the member of this forum on economics.  That goes for all that aren't reading this.

 Cheesy

This depression can be stopped almost overnight, this is a political problem not a failing of economics or a lack of solutions that do exist if we seek to find them.


Well, Please, enlighten us, oh Guru, that we may bask in your radiance, and make you Fed Chairman ASAP.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
July 22, 2011, 06:54:15 PM
#11
The overall lack of solutions being posted to this board proves the general ignorance of the member of this forum on economics.  That goes for all that aren't reading this.

 Cheesy

This depression can be stopped almost overnight, this is a political problem not a failing of economics or a lack of solutions that do exist if we seek to find them.
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