Topic: Your lack of Vigilance is costing YOU - Wake up! - page 2. (Read 432 times)
All i know is that any gambling website where people lose often will certain lose patronage and fold up. There is no 100% sure way of knowing whether a site is provably fair or not.
You would better don’t do that, Do not gamble this is very dangerous
Vigilance is still not the problem. Even if you are vigilant but do not know what to be vigilant about then there is no point. The fact is that people are not aware of what to look out for, heck for sure more than half of the people that try to gamble don't even know how the site is able to roll a random number (which is not actually random by the way, it is just simulating "randomness"). I do believe that in terms of the gambling sites, there should be some sort of centralized authority that would check the gambling sites if they are truly "provably fair". I know that people around here hate the word "centralized" but I believe this is a necessary evil.
You'd be surprised how unregulated online gaming is. It's sadly a very dark industry. It goes a lot deeper than just fairness, practices used to retain players & feed on addiction can be quite sad sometimes.
I think the original post should be reworded a bit, as the article is great but the discussion regarding it has been skewed.
Interesting article, I have never looked at provably fair games in deeper like this.
So Sites that promote their games to be provably fair just because they give out hashed seed can also be rigged if we can't set up our own client seed. Have seen many of provably fair sites only allow us to autogenerate next client seed automatically which might also come from server side.
So Sites that promote their games to be provably fair just because they give out hashed seed can also be rigged if we can't set up our own client seed. Have seen many of provably fair sites only allow us to autogenerate next client seed automatically which might also come from server side.
Are you accusing Bitcasino of defrauding you?
Also, why would you bet on a website you doubt?
Its not lack of vigilance, its stupidity to bet on a fishy website.
Its even more stupid to create a provably unfair house, more the unfairness, less the traffic and less the profit.
Also someone already said above, the aim of the house to hold you in, an unfair website will only empty your pockets faster and drive the users away.
Also, why would you bet on a website you doubt?
Its not lack of vigilance, its stupidity to bet on a fishy website.
Its even more stupid to create a provably unfair house, more the unfairness, less the traffic and less the profit.
Also someone already said above, the aim of the house to hold you in, an unfair website will only empty your pockets faster and drive the users away.
Vigilance is still not the problem. Even if you are vigilant but do not know what to be vigilant about then there is no point. The fact is that people are not aware of what to look out for, heck for sure more than half of the people that try to gamble don't even know how the site is able to roll a random number (which is not actually random by the way, it is just simulating "randomness"). I do believe that in terms of the gambling sites, there should be some sort of centralized authority that would check the gambling sites if they are truly "provably fair". I know that people around here hate the word "centralized" but I believe this is a necessary evil.
There is nothing like pure randomness. No matter how hard you try paradox of rationality vs irrationality will haunt you.
I have to agree with the other users as the article you quoted has a lot of "ifs" in it meaning that it is just a thought. There are no examples or named dice sites that are actually doing what the article is saying. Your warning is simply for something that does not even exist yet or it isn't even a mere issue for gamblers. If the article only have shown evidence with what dice sites are doing it will prove itself as a credible article.
Provable fair has been thrown around in every gambling site in the internet like it is a casual thing but we still couldn't prove that they are indeed fair in the first place. They can say upfront in their website that they practice provable fairness in their games but we still don't have the means to verify it in a 100% manner. Well, as for starter, don't play in any casino where they don't "claim" their website is governed by provable fair. Second, gamble only the money that you are willing to lose. Never ever expect that you'll go home with any money or profit out of online casinos. Just play it as a hobby and don't expect anything.
Definitely not fair to accuse casinos of doing such a thing without proof. Then again, when a casino isn't provably fair, how can you prove it?
Hopefully these casinos implement fairness. It's a very simple thing to do. It's not complicated what so ever.
Hopefully these casinos implement fairness. It's a very simple thing to do. It's not complicated what so ever.
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You would have lost your money anyway, even if they weren’t rigged.
I don’t understand why casinos would rig their systems because they make a lot of money without rigging them. The most important point for a casino is to attract customers. If there is traffic, casinos make money. The only reason I can think of, is that if they rig the system, people lose their money faster, but if they lose it too fast, they have a bad customer experience and tend to come back less.
I don’t understand why casinos would rig their systems because they make a lot of money without rigging them. The most important point for a casino is to attract customers. If there is traffic, casinos make money. The only reason I can think of, is that if they rig the system, people lose their money faster, but if they lose it too fast, they have a bad customer experience and tend to come back less.
If you play too much on gambling you will never know that you already lose, provably fair never help for a quite fair play game only a house edge gives favor for the advantage.That's why just test the water first if the gambling site gives a fair justice but a doubt only limited number of gambling sites are legit for fair level playing field.
Interesting article, although it seems a bit hypothetical. How is it related to your first paragraph? Are you accusing those sites of defrauding you through this practice? Do they prevent you from choosing hi or low? Are there any gambling websites that prevent you from making this choice?
The last few months after losing far too much money on Bitcasino & a little on Bitstarz I have come to understand that their games are not fair. I have looked into the industry through a VIP contact I made there and have come to understand that white label solutions are 100% RIGGABLE. Since then I have contacted some people from other websites which are members of the Crypto Gambling Foundation. At first I thought it was a bit of a joke but have soon come to realise this needs to be looked into more!
https://cryptogambling.org/articles/the-problem-with-a-lack-of-vigilance/
Have you lost money playing on non provably fair websites? WAKE UP NOW
Here's the article I linked above. It's worth the read. Gamble responsibly guys. I'm going to start my own website soon trying to help people understand. I'd love it if Aengus could also reply to my PM in regards to helping the CGF more. This is an innitiative I want to take on.
https://cryptogambling.org/articles/the-problem-with-a-lack-of-vigilance/
Have you lost money playing on non provably fair websites? WAKE UP NOW
Here's the article I linked above. It's worth the read. Gamble responsibly guys. I'm going to start my own website soon trying to help people understand. I'd love it if Aengus could also reply to my PM in regards to helping the CGF more. This is an innitiative I want to take on.
Quote
Provable fairness allows users to play on sites without the fear of their bets being altered into the house’s favor. But there’s an important caveat that is often missed or not explained to the players: full trustlessness is only there if the player does what they need to do also. Nearly all provably fair systems operate on the server seed client seed model. The server shows you a hash of their seed before you start betting and allows you to change your client seed before the first bet of the round. This way, since you are introducing new data into the hash function, the outcome of the hash is no longer controlled by the site as they do not have control over the data you give them.
But here’s the problem: many sites will pre-fill that box for users when they change their seed. This in itself does not have to be a problem. In fact, it’s possible for this to be even more secure than the user entering their own data. If the site allows you to enter up to 32 random characters and they pre-fill the client seed box with 32 actually random characters (preferrably generated on the client side with JavaScript instead of by the server) then it’s more secure than just entering “1234” as your seed, just like a password. (However it’s only “more secure” if the site is malicious and trying to change outcomes, and such a site would probably not generate good seeds for you so the point is moot).
The problem with pre-filling the client seed comes from a situation where the site is malicious, which we should assume until proven otherwise. A malicious site can easily generate a server seed and client seed ahead of time that when used result in more losing bets than winning ones. It’s just a matter of generating random client seeds and checking the results until they get one that’s sufficiently “bad”. If this site were to present this bad seed to the user as a sort of default option, many people would click past it and not think about it. The site would still use all the same provably fair algorithms, but could still be cheating you. Such a thing would only be possible if the site thinks you are likely to keep betting high or keep betting low, because estimates for you winning rely on consistently betting one or the other. (If the site generated a seed pair that would make you lose 55% of the time if you bet high, but you chose to bet low instead, you would be winning 55% of the time instead of losing). However, if the site does not allow you to pick high or low (or the game is some game other than dice where the numbers affect the outcome in a different way) then this opens up a good attack vector for them.
The concern with this kind of attack on players is small, because it would be difficult for a site to pull off consistently, especially without eventually drawing attention, but no hole however small should be discounted, especially with technology like machine learning becoming more prominent. If you take anything from reading this, always change your client seed to something that you created, copy down the hash of your server seed before you start betting and you’ll be fine.
But here’s the problem: many sites will pre-fill that box for users when they change their seed. This in itself does not have to be a problem. In fact, it’s possible for this to be even more secure than the user entering their own data. If the site allows you to enter up to 32 random characters and they pre-fill the client seed box with 32 actually random characters (preferrably generated on the client side with JavaScript instead of by the server) then it’s more secure than just entering “1234” as your seed, just like a password. (However it’s only “more secure” if the site is malicious and trying to change outcomes, and such a site would probably not generate good seeds for you so the point is moot).
The problem with pre-filling the client seed comes from a situation where the site is malicious, which we should assume until proven otherwise. A malicious site can easily generate a server seed and client seed ahead of time that when used result in more losing bets than winning ones. It’s just a matter of generating random client seeds and checking the results until they get one that’s sufficiently “bad”. If this site were to present this bad seed to the user as a sort of default option, many people would click past it and not think about it. The site would still use all the same provably fair algorithms, but could still be cheating you. Such a thing would only be possible if the site thinks you are likely to keep betting high or keep betting low, because estimates for you winning rely on consistently betting one or the other. (If the site generated a seed pair that would make you lose 55% of the time if you bet high, but you chose to bet low instead, you would be winning 55% of the time instead of losing). However, if the site does not allow you to pick high or low (or the game is some game other than dice where the numbers affect the outcome in a different way) then this opens up a good attack vector for them.
The concern with this kind of attack on players is small, because it would be difficult for a site to pull off consistently, especially without eventually drawing attention, but no hole however small should be discounted, especially with technology like machine learning becoming more prominent. If you take anything from reading this, always change your client seed to something that you created, copy down the hash of your server seed before you start betting and you’ll be fine.
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