Topic: Your thoughts about legal drugs - page 2. (Read 2059 times)

If you had read my post thoroughly, then you would see that I agreed with you that synthetic cannabinoids can be dangerous, and said I was sorry to hear about your family. There's no need to start shouting about how you want me and my kids to die slowly. And no-one is persuading anyone to take anything, don't know where you got that idea. If safer alternatives like real cannabis/LSD/MDMA weren't outlawed then situations like this would never exist. That's not my fault, it's the fault of the War on Drugs, as I said earlier.

The point I was trying to make was too many people say "all legal highs will kill you" (or the opposite), which simply isn't true. Each one has its own safety profile, and a result some can be dangerous, others not so much. I understand that this is quite an emotional subject for you, but just saying that "all legal highs are evil!!" isn't a rational viewpoint I'm afraid.


The legality of BD-FLY is sketchy, it's still legal in many places, and was legal in many more when the incident occured. My point is that there is always an element of danger with ANY drug, but some are more likely to kill at a lower dosage. I was also using the BD-FLY incidents as an example where a simple mislabelling had serious consequences. I don't think it matters whether the examples are legal or not, I'm just using them to illustrate some basics about how drugs work.

Re: the dose-response curve, no that's not what I mean. You're right that some people have different effects from the same dose, but this is down to physiological differences such as tolerance. A steep dose-response means that there is a fine line between a threshold dose (one where the effects are barely felt) and an overdose (where undesired side-effects appear). For example with 25I-NBOMe, (which was legal in most places until not long ago), 10x the normal dose would be a huge overdose and would probably put the user in hospital if not kill them. But 10x the dose of LSD would cause no physiological damage (although it could be dangerous for your mental health).

If a drug has a steep dose-response curve, then a very small amount over the threshold dose will have a large effect - on the contrary, a drug with a shallower dose-response curve will need a large amount over the threshold for changes in effect. But drugs are complicated, as I said earlier side-effects occur at different dosages with different drugs. Looking at LSD vs 25I-NBOMe, you will get extreme physical side-effects with just a small OD of 25I-NBOMe (such as tachycardia that could cause a heart attack). With LSD, you'd just be away with the fairies for a few days if you took 10-100x the threshold dose. You could get run over or have a really bad time, but the drug itself wouldn't kill you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dose%E2%80%93response_relationship#Dose.E2.80.93response_curve

This is what happens when people are forced to use shitty research chemicals with no safety controls because the good stuff that doesn't kill you is outlawed.

In essence, prohibition is still the main factor that caused the deaths of your friends.

Sorry.

Die quick twat.. you'd agree with anything that allow's you to convince other's that this crap is safe.. what no apologies for your mistaken belief that they were on more than a blast of a joint? Say's it all.. scum.

Remind yourself when searching for new legal high's that some folk's will sell poison to you knowing people like you persuaded kid's to die

You are right. The best you can do is either research/test before consumption or trust your vendor, but can't see where your example fits here. Bromo-Deagonfly is labelled as class A drug, illegal in most countries, and clearly proven to be dangerous taken in any dosages.  


Again you are giving class A drug examples. Also I would say the steep dose/response curves you mentioned, it's not drugs, it's the people and the way their organisms response to substances. For example, John takes a puff of herbal incense and doesn't feel a thing, but his buddy Nick takes the same puff and gets so high he forgets where he's at. Is this what you mean?


I completely agree.

Spot the fuckin IDIOT's..

My cousin and her girlfriend had a few puff's of a 'legal' joint, 1 died, the other lived. The cause of death was asphixiation, or to put it mildly, not enough oxygen to the brain. She was brain dead on arrival. I would love to sit the last two poster's here in a room with Melissa, and watch her rip you to shred's, until you are dead. And film it for youtube. It wont bring Roxy back, but to say they were on anything else is nothing more than trying to convince yourselve's, that they were, when all they did was toke on a fuckin joint. I know the fact's, you clearly know fuck all. I was a raver in the '80's-'90's, and I can say, I've done my fair share of ekkies that would blow ya away, pink champagne that made ya too scared to sleep, cocaine that didnae run around my brain, it took off.. I stopped all that back then, but yup, it was good. But when I have a single toke on a j and feel what they experienced a year later, I know that there is something wrong, especially when the 'legal' is more likely to kill than anything else.

To the two posters commenting on my comment's, I hope your kid's die from this same stuff, over and over again, just so I can say with certainty, that what you posted, is nothing more than what a junkie would say to a clued up kid trying to make them feel it's safe to keep taking them, when in fact you are clearly fuckin wrong..

I hope god in his wisdom makes you two fuckin watch while they die.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/police-swoop-in-60-000-edinburgh-legal-high-raids-1-3518804

These raid's happened because of this incident.

I hope you two die SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.......

While this is technically true, the issues are a little more complicated. First off, unless you have access to GC/MS or other analytical equipment (costing tens of thousands of pounds), you'll never know for sure that what you have is what you think it is. However trustworthy your vendor is, everyone makes mistakes. Eg, the whole Bromo-Dragonfly incidents, where a batch was incorrectly mislabelled as 2C-B-Fly (a compound 20x less potent), and quite a few people died.

Also, drugs can have very steep dose/response curves (meaning the difference between a recreational dose and an overdose can be very small). Side-effects of different drugs also manifest at different doses. For example, most humans would probably survive 100x the standard dose of LSD, but would almost certainly die if they ingested 100x the standard dose of Bromo-Dragonfly or 25I-NBOMe (even though all 3 have similar potency).

Some people could also have an allergic reaction to a substance, which could only affect 0.00001% of the population. As a loose example, think of how serious peanut allergies can be, but it is a very rare condition.


While stimulants make up the majority of legal highs, there are many other classes, such as cannabinoids, sedatives, dissociatives, opioids, serotonergic psychedelics etc. All drugs will have different safety profiles and dosages, which will affect how safe they are to use. Don't forget that some drugs can be extremely addictive as well, which is not necessarily dangerous in the short term, but could mess your life up. Eg, it's perfectly safe to be addicted to clinical-grade Morphine or Heroin for your whole life (as we can see from war veterans using it daily for years), but it's not ideal for most people.


Good points. I think many of the people that get into trouble with legal highs haven't a clue what they're taking, and often take too much, too soon.

I am sorry to hear that, but it is impossible to die just after taking a legal high of known source. You have to overdose it for the side effects to kick in, but that's with every drug and not only drugs. You can simply overdose anything and die. Legal highs are basically perfectly legal natural or synthetic stimulants, not harmful to humans if taken correctly but dangerous if taken in high doses. Your friends might have overdosed or bought something else, you need to research what you are taking before consumption. Packages are mostly blank and doesn't contain any information about what you are smoking, or snorting.

You're both kinda right with these comments.

Decksperiment, you're pretty much describing the Synth Cannabinoid market here, I think the chemists are now on the "4th Generation" of noids, probably the 5th is in development when the 4th get banned. And as they get banned, the newer ones tend to be even more unpredictable.

laverre, I also agree with you that people should have a choice. After all, if the safer option is illegal, then many people will turn to the option that won't land them in jail.

The real thing here is there should be EDUCATION not PROHIBITION. Many people assume that because a drug is legal, it is safe. This is obviously false, but don't forget that doesn't mean all legal highs are dangerous - they are, after all, simply chemicals.

Some legal highs or "research chemicals" can be dangerous, while others have been shown to be safer. What you ingested was almost certainly herbs impregnated with a synthetic cannabinoid, or a mixture of them. Although they haven't killed many people, synth cannabinoids have a horrible track record of being stupidly strong, and they seem to be very addictive as well. Sorry to hear about your family members getting into trouble btw, nasty business.

[chemistry] This is probably due to most of them being a full agonist at the cannabis receptors, rather than THC, which is a partial agonist. This means basically that many of these synth noids fully activate the CB receptors with a very low dose (making them strong), and are then metabolised very quickly (making the high short-lived, and the user wanting to smoke more). I call them "crack weed". Also bear in mind that real cannabis contains nearly 100 active cannabinoids, some of them such as CBD and CBN have different effects to THC, and can extend and "balance" the high. [/chemistry]

However there are many other classes of synthetic drugs, most of which don't seem to be as dangerous (for at least as long as they've been around, which admittedly isn't very long in most cases). For instance, many phenethylamines first synthesized by Alexander Shulgin, such as 2C-B/2C-I, are still legal in some countries and seem to be relatively benign if dosed carefully. Saying that, there have been many more recent phenethylamines, such as 25I-NBOMe, which are far more potent and have less known long-term effects.

My point is, if you do want to try any new legal highs/research chemicals, be aware that you are basically a guinea pig. Always research what you plan on taking thoroughly - read online reports of subjective effects/dosages/routes of administration etc. Pick your vendor carefully, and avoid products which don't inform you of the ingredients. If dealing with powdered chemicals, buy a good set of scales (accurate to 0.001g), and start very low - just remember you can never "untake" a drug, but you can always try a higher dose the following week. And avoid synthetic cannabinoids, I can tell you from experience that they can be horrible, unpredictable and addictive - just stick with real weed.

The best thing to do really is to just not try any of them, but if you must, PLEASE do your homework - don't become another victim of the War on Drugs. You see, the legal high market only exists because of prohibition, and the governments simply cannot keep up with the chemists that synthesize chemicals designed to circumvent new laws. This means that while safer drugs such as MDMA, LSD and Cannabis remain illegal, there will always be newer/less tested and probably more dangerous drugs being developed.

Moderate alcohol consumption is good.

It is good thing.
I have never used them and I am not going to use them ever but I think if someone wants to use them they can decide it by themselves.

You think this is a good thing?

I guess I dunno the 'quality' of legal high's from here to there, wherever you are, but allow me:

Take a green plant, change it's molecular structure by one notch, in order to make it 'legal' and each time the gov catch on, do same. In the end, you have something that is nothing like the origional, and is so dark a buzz, that one day, that dark will be permanent. If you ever have a thought that your 'buzz' is too dark, your halfway to realising how close you are to the biggest fright of your life, the one that scare's you to death.

You'd be better jumping off a bridge, at least you get the time to wish you never before you die.

Edit: Dont do legal high's, you'd be better off with a good bit green, and a few beers, at least you know what is what.

It is good thing.

I once went for a bit green for a friend, and whilst waiting, a friend passed me a j, so I took a puff, and within 5 minute's, hit he deck.. it was as if the life force drained from my body.. my heart went all out of sync, and I was mega toiling just to take a breath.. it took about an hour to fully recover.. only then did they say it was a 'legal' high.. never again I said to myself..

Almost a year to the day, my cousin and her girlfriend both took a legal high, both ended up in hospital, both 'died', one came back, the other is dead.

Enjoi..

I cant say anything bad about legal highs, I drink every weekend, and I really enjoy it. Except the hangover obviously.

As far as drugs go, I don't touch them, not even weed. I even have a problem taking antibiotics. I don't take any medicine unless I really really have to.

Thank you for your input. The main advantage of legal drugs I think is they are completely legal in most countries, but still get you the same effect as illegal drugs, like cocaine or weed. You can just buy it with your credit card and have it delivered to your front door without any repercussions.

Legal drugs are mostly prohibited under the age of 18, but I completely agree, no person under 18 should be involved in any drugs, alcohol or psychoactive substances.

 

I have no moral problem with any drug or alcohol.  In fact, I consume alcohol a couple times a week and even do pot with friends now and then (not that often cause it leaves me one hell of a hangover!)

What I am against, however, is their use on developing minds.

If you are a teenager, your brain is still developing, and such use will retard you in the future.

We have a user on here, dank, that admitted taking lots of drugs when he was young.  His mind is shot beyond repair.

Do not use drugs or alcohol unless your body and mind is fully mature.  You have a lot of years ahead of you that you will need your mind.

 

"Legal intoxicants, also known as legal drugs or, more commonly, as legal highs, are those intoxicating drugs which are either completely legal or uncommonly prohibited by various drug laws. The most widely consumed legal intoxicant is alcohol—legal throughout the vast majority of the world's countries—but a wide array of other drugs are also not specifically banned in many international jurisdictions: these may vary from native intoxicating plants historically used by indigenous cultures to foodstuffs eaten in various parts of the world, to modern compounds and designer drugs that have not been defined as illegal, or even long-standing medicines that have intoxicating or anesthetic side effects."

What is a "legal high"?

Taking too much Tylenol?

What are your thoughts about legal highs? Would you try it?