Your thoughts on Greece? What's the most likely outcome in your opinion?

n2004al

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Quote from: alani123 on July 01, 2015, 11:46:26 AM

It seems like Greece is heading to the referendum no matter what. As a Greek myself I wonder what others think of the current situation the country is in.

Your country is in the worst situation that a country can be. The debt of Greece taken e create from dozens of non conscious politicians which had used it to have more personal power and not for the better of the simple Greeks is unsustainable and as such it is very hard to be repaid. The Greeks will suffer for to many other years and no one can know where the situation will be better.

I'm so sorry about that and I hope that this situation (which I see without hope) passe with less possible consequences. I have heard that "the state of Greece is poor but the people is rich". If this is true I hope that the people help the state because is its state and without it their life will be worst very soon.

Their must work hardly to repaid the debt and to return in their normal life. The results of referendum were a shame and the people must be responsable that the money of the others are the money of the others and must be returned back to the owners.

eerygarden

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Quote from: bojan92 on July 29, 2015, 02:43:45 PM

The greeks must stick to the rules given by the European Union and save money. If you do that you will successfully beat the the situation you are facing. That is your only way out, so save money pay bigger taxes and you will payout the dept you owe

Haha, "payout the dept you owe". Thanks i needed that. Haha.

mrhelpful

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Quote from: HigsonPP on July 01, 2015, 11:17:17 PM

I think that after the Greece default, it gets kicked out of Euro zone. Followed by that, more countries leave as euro has always been about more money than just more support. The economy of Greece faults destroyed, they keep losing power and faith of people keeps fluctuating from one leader to another each promising a better future. The euro zone asks an important asset or a part of the country as a payment of the dues and Greece has a fall out if it isn't rescued by another country.

If they kicked out how will germany and other european nations gets its funds back in what form?

wouldnt make sense to kick out someone when they owe you money. Also greece`s problem is similar to any state problem on how a city goes broke its just their on a global level. They wont get a rescue, but im sure they will have to be settled down with a reasonable # to come back from if their country ever does grow.

bojan92

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The greeks must stick to the rules given by the European Union and save money. If you do that you will successfully beat the the situation you are facing. That is your only way out, so save money pay bigger taxes and you will payout the dept you owe

Zorrocoin

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Quote from: alani123 on July 01, 2015, 11:46:26 AM

It seems like Greece is heading to the referendum no matter what. As a Greek myself I wonder what others think of the current situation the country is in.

First of all, my condolences. I hope you and your beautiful country comes out of the crisis. It will , as you guys are really strong. Anyway, there are a lot of criteria to worry about but I dont think there will be any defects to fix after a couple of years. Everything will redeem back to its original and authentic position . Wink

NUFCrichard

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Quote from: bitcoinarchitecture on July 03, 2015, 05:57:04 AM

Europe can’t afford to loose Greece.
Politically Europe will look very weak if they can’ t keep it together.

Europe looks weaker economically with Greece involved. I think both sides should see this as a positive, it is like an abusive relationship, it isn't productive for either side.
What they should do is leave the Euro, stay in the EU, try to get their house in order and maybe re-apply in 20 years or so.

What they probably will do is stay in the Euro and suffer badly for the next 50 years through constant cuts and bailouts stunding any chance of a recovery.

bitcoinarchitecture

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Europe can’t afford to loose Greece.
Politically Europe will look very weak if they can’ t keep it together.

eerygarden

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Quote from: alani123 on July 02, 2015, 08:31:40 PM

Quote from: eerygarden on July 01, 2015, 03:17:19 PM

Quote from: alani123 on July 01, 2015, 11:46:26 AM

It seems like Greece is heading to the referendum no matter what. As a Greek myself I wonder what others think of the current situation the country is in.

I'm from the UK. Our media shows unhappy queues of people at banks complaining. Some say Tsipras is our saviour, others say he has lost all credibility. To be honest I don't know what it's like for you over there? Are you ok? Are you still able to get the food you want? Are you able to cook it at home? Is the electric still on? Do your taps still release drinking water? Is there violence on the street? Does the bank holiday mean you are off work? Are you worrying? Are you relaxed? I'd love to know.

We're doing ok from what I see. There are no notable riots, no violence on the streets. So I'm confident that the worst has been avoided (for now). Of course, there are capital controls imposed. There are some side effects by this as expected but luckily businesses, companies etc. still have the ability to work normally. Transfers within the country are allowed so we individuals can pay for the essentials with cards. Cash withdrawals are limited to 60 EUR per atm card per day. I'm mostly sad about the pensioners that didn't receive their full payment at the end of the month from the state. However, what's most concerning for me right now is the propaganda that is literally everywhere. I'm disappointed by both private media and the Government because they both fail to be objective about the referendum.There was some effort from the Government to give people the whole picture, but I just can't ignore the fact that Syriza is openly urging people to vote no.

It is interesting that the private media is at loggerheads with the government. I can understand why Tsipras is urging a no vote. It is just like another election for him and election campaigns tend to lead to party leaders saying vote for me, don't vote for them because blah blah blah. Tsipras has made it in to an election campaign by announcing he will not continue in office if there is a yes vote. Tsipras Vs Europe, and you don't yet know the face of the Europe representative you will get if you vote yes. This is a great test for Europe. They get to see how many people will vote for them when their representative isn't even known yet.

Once again it is a case of picking your master and the candidates are flexing their muscles.

Quote from: brekyrself on July 02, 2015, 09:23:57 PM

This is the scary part:
http://www.ekathimerini.com/198816/article/ekathimerini/business/importers-protest-delays-in-getting-approval-for-transactions

Greek companies basically not able to purchase imported goods from funds being frozen.

Enter the fear. "Greece choose yes and your food will continue." The one thing that fiat does spectacularly well is provide order, I can't emphasize the word 'spectacular', enough. It truly is spectacular how well human beings serve each other in return for the promise of a transaction. Take away the ability to transact and you take away the motivation for one human being to serve another. Transacting is key.

Alani123 I hope everything turns out alright for you. It is nice to hear the thoughts of someone living in Greece.

brekyrself

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Quote from: alani123 on July 02, 2015, 08:31:40 PM

Quote from: eerygarden on July 01, 2015, 03:17:19 PM

Quote from: alani123 on July 01, 2015, 11:46:26 AM

It seems like Greece is heading to the referendum no matter what. As a Greek myself I wonder what others think of the current situation the country is in.

I'm from the UK. Our media shows unhappy queues of people at banks complaining. Some say Tsipras is our saviour, others say he has lost all credibility. To be honest I don't know what it's like for you over there? Are you ok? Are you still able to get the food you want? Are you able to cook it at home? Is the electric still on? Do your taps still release drinking water? Is there violence on the street? Does the bank holiday mean you are off work? Are you worrying? Are you relaxed? I'd love to know.

We're doing ok from what I see. There are no notable riots, no violence on the streets. So I'm confident that the worst has been avoided (for now). Of course, there are capital controls imposed. There are some side effects by this as expected but luckily businesses, companies etc. still have the ability to work normally. Transfers within the country are allowed so we individuals can pay for the essentials with cards. Cash withdrawals are limited to 60 EUR per atm card per day. I'm mostly sad about the pensioners that didn't receive their full payment at the end of the month from the state. However, what's most concerning for me right now is the propaganda that is literally everywhere. I'm disappointed by both private media and the Government because they both fail to be objective about the referendum.There was some effort from the Government to give people the whole picture, but I just can't ignore the fact that Syriza is openly urging people to vote no.

Alani123

Any news on the banks opening up again 7/7? Nowhere can I find information on cash liquidity levels of the banks within Greece.

This is the scary part:
http://www.ekathimerini.com/198816/article/ekathimerini/business/importers-protest-delays-in-getting-approval-for-transactions

Greek companies basically not able to purchase imported goods from funds being frozen.

alani123

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Quote from: eerygarden on July 01, 2015, 03:17:19 PM

Quote from: alani123 on July 01, 2015, 11:46:26 AM

It seems like Greece is heading to the referendum no matter what. As a Greek myself I wonder what others think of the current situation the country is in.

I'm from the UK. Our media shows unhappy queues of people at banks complaining. Some say Tsipras is our saviour, others say he has lost all credibility. To be honest I don't know what it's like for you over there? Are you ok? Are you still able to get the food you want? Are you able to cook it at home? Is the electric still on? Do your taps still release drinking water? Is there violence on the street? Does the bank holiday mean you are off work? Are you worrying? Are you relaxed? I'd love to know.

We're doing ok from what I see. There are no notable riots, no violence on the streets. So I'm confident that the worst has been avoided (for now). Of course, there are capital controls imposed. There are some side effects by this as expected but luckily businesses, companies etc. still have the ability to work normally. Transfers within the country are allowed so we individuals can pay for the essentials with cards. Cash withdrawals are limited to 60 EUR per atm card per day. I'm mostly sad about the pensioners that didn't receive their full payment at the end of the month from the state. However, what's most concerning for me right now is the propaganda that is literally everywhere. I'm disappointed by both private media and the Government because they both fail to be objective about the referendum.There was some effort from the Government to give people the whole picture, but I just can't ignore the fact that Syriza is openly urging people to vote no.

alani123

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Quote from: Gyfts on July 02, 2015, 06:41:52 PM

Quote from: alani123 on July 01, 2015, 11:46:26 AM

It seems like Greece is heading to the referendum no matter what. As a Greek myself I wonder what others think of the current situation the country is in.

You are actually in the country? I'm interested to see the banks honestly. They're almost closed at this point, they've limited and monitored withdrawal to my knowledge. I'm shocked its people haven't gone in complete panic. If it were to happen in a place like the US, riots would break out.

Yup, I live in Greece. What I can tell is that there's a lot of uncertainty and the propaganda spread through the media at the moment doesn't help. There are capital controls imposed and we're technically locked from buying anything from companies not based in Greece at the moment. (Thank god I had some bitcoins saved) 60 euro withdrawal limits per atm card per day, pensioners didn't get their full payment at the end of the month and there are more issues caused by the capital controls. Greeks don't go out as much despite the fact that schools are closed and it's Summer. There are protests everywhere (no major violent riots as far as I'm concerned though).

Gronthaing

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Quote from: boopy265420 on July 01, 2015, 01:36:52 PM

Greeks are great nation after all they will come out of this crisis successfully.The real problem is for the European Union states if they let Greece on its own or help it,in both cases they need to support the burden.If people say ''yes'' in referendum then real problem will be for government as it has opposed it from the start.Any way tough time for Greeks on short to medium term but good on long term.

If the Greeks say yes there will probably be early elections. Don't think the current government would be able to continue in those conditions. But I doubt the yes vote will win.

Quote from: kOLElEVI on July 02, 2015, 07:30:12 AM

in my opinion the things Greek government has been doing all these years are beyond horrible.
the greaks by default are whiney people.

they have pensions 1 500 eur a month. it gets paid 14 times a year. and people are still whining that they can afford to travel only two times a year.
considering that they are spending money which they dont have.

and in the end all europe will suffer.

What was it, 46% of pensioners in Greece are below the poverty line or something? Over 25% unemployment in the country? A destroyed economy? Don't think only Greece is to blame here. Even with the corruption of previous Greek governments and tax evasion.

Quote from: Argwai96 on July 02, 2015, 09:36:58 AM

I really want to see what gonna happen they get back to printing money with a broken economy, i think the people will suffer a lot, my question is will the people take down the government? could we see the people taking to the streets and take down the current government.

Doubt it. The syriza government is maybe not as left leaning as some expected. But they have kept to their word so far. Tried to stay in the euro and avoid the worst of austerity as they were elected to do. And the Greeks must know how hard it will be to leave the euro. So the referendum helps here too. It's their choice.

Gyfts

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Quote from: alani123 on July 01, 2015, 11:46:26 AM

It seems like Greece is heading to the referendum no matter what. As a Greek myself I wonder what others think of the current situation the country is in.

You are actually in the country? I'm interested to see the banks honestly. They're almost closed at this point, they've limited and monitored withdrawal to my knowledge. I'm shocked its people haven't gone in complete panic. If it were to happen in a place like the US, riots would break out.

IIOII

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I think sooner or later Greece will leave the Eurozone. They should have done this years ago, because it's the only reasonable way to reduce their debt burden and to become more economically competitive. It's really bad that there isn't a established mechanism for leaving the Euro-club. The current situation has destroyed all trust between the EU and Greece and ignited a lot of anger between people. This is a serious burden for the EU.

Another possible scenario would be the introduction of a parallel currency in addition to the Euro.

I don't know how things will work out - but it won't be pretty. The whole EU is on the verge of collapse (Spain and France as big economies also have serious problems). Only for now the music still plays...

eerygarden

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Quote from: The Young Turk on July 02, 2015, 04:48:48 PM

If Greece asks for a loan from Turkey (that Turkey can give if Tsipras asks formally) Then Turkey can loan Money to Greece.
(Ps: If Greece defaults loan from Turkey, Then We'll get some of your islands Grin

)

I thought about this. If average Joe defaults on his mortgage he loses his house. 2 strikes is typical. Is there anything in the IMF terms what happens in the event of default. Seems a standard thing to put in to a loan agreement. Could the IMF take some land?

The Young Turk

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If Greece asks for a loan from Turkey (that Turkey can give if Tsipras asks formally) Then Turkey can loan Money to Greece.
(Ps: If Greece defaults loan from Turkey, Then We'll get some of your islands Grin

)

Argwai96

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I really want to see what gonna happen they get back to printing money with a broken economy, i think the people will suffer a lot, my question is will the people take down the government? could we see the people taking to the streets and take down the current government.

AtheistAKASaneBrain

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Quote from: cryptojumper on July 02, 2015, 12:47:17 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: cryptojumper on July 01, 2015, 01:57:41 PM

I think EU don't need Greece that much really, all these talks about EURO collapsing are way too much exaggerated and unsound. If Greece does not want to live by the financial terms they themselves got into then it's their choice..

The thing is, if Greece leaves then Spain and Italy could be next, possibly France. I think the EU has been shady and borderline fraudulent throughout all this. They cooked the numbers to even get Greece into the EU in the first place. The Greek economy did not meet the requirements and they knew it in Brussels. It looks now like it was always about privatizing Greece's public sphere and looting their economy with predatory lending. The same BS the global 1% NWO assholes are trying to pull all over the world. At some point these a-hole bankers will probably demand that Greece hand over the Acropolis as a dept payment. Hopefully their whole system of power will collapse before it comes to that tho.

The creditors helped Greece to get into the situation, there's no doubt about that. But what's done is done.. Now, however, the circumstances are such that Greece are in no position to demand something, but they don't seem to realize it or pretend to not realize it and are pushing themselves into further troubles..

If they are or aren't in a situation to demand something is irrelevant. Europe knows Greece will never be able to pay back, the mega austerity situation can't go on any longer and for it to be paid back ti would require decades of a society living in depressing austerity. It's just not viable long term, so what are they going to do about it?

Amph

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Quote from: kOLElEVI on July 02, 2015, 07:30:12 AM

in my opinion the things Greek government has been doing all these years are beyond horrible.
the greaks by default are whiney people.

they have pensions 1 500 eur a month. it gets paid 14 times a year. and people are still whining that they can afford to travel only two times a year.
considering that they are spending money which they dont have.

and in the end all europe will suffer.

other countries are indeed suffering not only because of their internal problem but becuse of so many errors of few of them like Greece, if the central bank keep lend money to one country like Greece, it's obvious that they are reducing their loan to some other countries to do this

they keep printing like no tomorrow, there must be a limit for that or their toilet paper(Euro) will certainly become toilet paper

looks at the euro now, it looks like a dead horse, the fault is a bit of those poor country that joined the Eurozone since the beginning, i think the Eurozone, should have been made only with few countries and only the stronger ones, like Germany

Xialla

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/dev/null

ahh, lazy corrupted Greeks and their gov. full of handsome young stupids just got what they deserved. Germany stop paying their ouzo and siesta and finally they realized, where they are. I really hope, that they will say NO in referendum and prove to rest of Europe, that they deserve to be part of.

Topic: Your thoughts on Greece? What's the most likely outcome in your opinion? (Read 1443 times)