Topic: You're using too much thermal paste! (Read 9143 times)
I have a big bag (1500 ct) of nylon nuts and bolts that we are going to try out, Cuz.
Chewing gum? I don't why yours is that thick. I use MX-2 all the time (prefer it over AS5 which is thicker). I wouldn't mind trying MX-4 if it weren't 2-3x more expensive.
I might have been confusing MX2 with MX3. Have a look here, check the video:
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/986/pg2/arctic-mx-4-thermal-paste-review-thermal-compound.html
I've been trying to do away with the springs and go with a nut and bolt system with loctite. I absolutely detest that spring system on the current HSF.
I mailed Butterfly some size 4 nylon nuts and bolts. They said over-tightening could be a issue. I don't really think that can happen with nylon though. The threads don't hold if you over tighten. Definitely nicer then those springs. They seem to be holding fine, I didn't even use loctite.
MX2 is pretty difficult to apply properly. Its almost like chewing gum. I would suggest you switch to MX4 which is (marginally) more effective, but more importantly, very easy too apply,.
Chewing gum? I don't why yours is that thick. I use MX-2 all the time (prefer it over AS5 which is thicker). I wouldn't mind trying MX-4 if it weren't 2-3x more expensive.
Yes, MX-2 has always been... about the consistency of taffy. First thing I had to do was get that junk off my BFLs and apply AS5.
MX2 is pretty difficult to apply properly. Its almost like chewing gum. I would suggest you switch to MX4 which is (marginally) more effective, but more importantly, very easy too apply,.
Chewing gum? I don't why yours is that thick. I use MX-2 all the time (prefer it over AS5 which is thicker). I wouldn't mind trying MX-4 if it weren't 2-3x more expensive.
It's kind of immaterial now, though... the ASICs use a totally different HSF, so the problems should not reoccur anyway.
We've actually ordered some of that paste/sheets above to test out.
We've actually ordered some of that paste/sheets above to test out.
If we are talking about bfl asic cooling design, best to just use copper rather than worry about paste too much? (I know it's pricey) Shin etsu ftw.
Also, vote spring hsf design. Nuts and bolts are not a long term 24/7 solution (although they sound like one).
Also, vote spring hsf design. Nuts and bolts are not a long term 24/7 solution (although they sound like one).
I've been trying to do away with the springs and go with a nut and bolt system with loctite. I absolutely detest that spring system on the current HSF.
MX2 is pretty difficult to apply properly. Its almost like chewing gum. I would suggest you switch to MX4 which is (marginally) more effective, but more importantly, very easy too apply,.
+1, its what I use now (was MX2) and what I put on my single. made a 2-3 C difference. the original paste was gray and very thick (almost clumped) BTW.
the springs on a singles heatsink are pretty weak, so a thinner paste should be better. or at least easier to apply correctly.
Have I been doing it wrong all these years or do I need to go back to school??
I got my information from the Artic Silver site and the answer is: it depends on the chip:
http://www.arcticsilver.com/intel_application_method.html#
but a lot of chips now do not use a "middle dot" any more but instead use a line or multiple lines.
However, if you don't know a lot of information about the chip, your method (labeled "surface spread") works fine, and is the method I used. One thing is that the application on the heatsink side is really thin, almost too thin to consider to be applied. It just greys the area. For the singles, I actually put dots of the arctic silver on the corners of the chips and dry press on the heat sink and then remove it to get some markings for the tinting. Then I color it in the lines.
As far as I understand for those documents and others, you are right about the air gaps being removed by heat after use. That's why there's a burn in time.
When reading my message, keep in mind I may be remembering my college courses wrong...
That said... The purpose of thermal compound is to fill in the microscopic gaps between two metal surfaces, maximizing thermal conductivity. Any more than enough to fill in those gaps and it effectively becomes an insulator.
What I recall from my school, is how to apply thermal compound to the CPU, so that way the compound more effectively fills the gaps. If I recall properly, just putting some compund in the center and installing the heatsink isn't the most effective method (it doesn't fill in those gaps as well). But to take a plastic bag over your hand, and smear the compound on the surface of both the CPU and heatsink. Any air that gets trapped when installing the heatsink should be forced out after so much time when the CPU gets hot.
I been applying thermal compound this way for years and tends to save me a lot of compound and usually shows 5-10C cooler themps than factory application.
Have I been doing it wrong all these years or do I need to go back to school??
That said... The purpose of thermal compound is to fill in the microscopic gaps between two metal surfaces, maximizing thermal conductivity. Any more than enough to fill in those gaps and it effectively becomes an insulator.
What I recall from my school, is how to apply thermal compound to the CPU, so that way the compound more effectively fills the gaps. If I recall properly, just putting some compund in the center and installing the heatsink isn't the most effective method (it doesn't fill in those gaps as well). But to take a plastic bag over your hand, and smear the compound on the surface of both the CPU and heatsink. Any air that gets trapped when installing the heatsink should be forced out after so much time when the CPU gets hot.
I been applying thermal compound this way for years and tends to save me a lot of compound and usually shows 5-10C cooler themps than factory application.
Have I been doing it wrong all these years or do I need to go back to school??
What color was the paste? I have been trying to educate the assemblers on proper application of paste and we switched to Arctic Silver MX-2 from the crap we had been using before. I'm wondering if it predated the change. If not, I may need to go talk to them again about application technique.
In my case, it was white.
I'm getting better results on gpu's and singles with thicker pastes. So long as it's not pouring at the sides, your not using to much.
I don't use liquid metal products anymore. I used some with my CPU and waterblock and when it came time to dismount it to sell off and upgrade, the waterblock and cpu became nearly fused. The stuff completely dried up and it was EXTREMELY difficult to pry it apart. The waterblock (fully copper) is ruined now, and the CPU had to be sanded and lapped to be in resaleable condition for use in air cooling. I'll take a picture when I get home from work.
According to the MSDS it's an alloy of indium, copper, and bismuth that melts at 59 C. Not surprised that it fused with the water block made of copper!
I am sure that is why they make the sealed pads now: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5509/thr-35/Coollaboratory_Liquid_MetalPad_Thermal_Interface_CPU_Pad_501249.html?tl=c127s451b74
I don't use liquid metal products anymore. I used some with my CPU and waterblock and when it came time to dismount it to sell off and upgrade, the waterblock and cpu became nearly fused. The stuff completely dried up and it was EXTREMELY difficult to pry it apart. The waterblock (fully copper) is ruined now, and the CPU had to be sanded and lapped to be in resaleable condition for use in air cooling. I'll take a picture when I get home from work.
Yes you have to sand the surfaces, but that would help to keep a proprietary aspect to the equipment, if the unit is rma'd you can tell if someone tried to make mods on thier own. Which would of course void the warranty making bfl not responsible for said damage. Just make sure your heat sink has a copper base, it will corrode aluminum. You can have copper base going into aluminum fins and it's ok, but on high heat the reviews speak for them self.
MX2 is pretty difficult to apply properly. Its almost like chewing gum. I would suggest you switch to MX4 which is (marginally) more effective, but more importantly, very easy too apply,.
This is what I use but its pricey
http://www.coollaboratory.com/en/products/liquid-pro/
http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/coollaboratory_liquid_metal_pro_thermal_compound_review,6.html
http://www.coollaboratory.com/en/products/liquid-pro/
http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/coollaboratory_liquid_metal_pro_thermal_compound_review,6.html
Never heard of the stuff, but it's def interesting! But it sounds like it's more of a pain than it's worth. Removing the "paste" requires sanding down both the chip, and the heatsink.
I like it, I happened to find it on frozen pc about a year ago, no have I done any testing to see what temps do. Before purchasing I did reviews on it and it done better then the artic silver 5 in most reviews and now it seems there is a paste application also. im sure if you need a large quatity they would sale direct there are not many distributers here it seems.
http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/coollaboratory_liquid_metal_pro_thermal_compound_review,6.html
a review I found
http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/coollaboratory_liquid_metal_pro_thermal_compound_review,6.html
a review I found
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