Topic: Zealots and Criminals, Is no one using bitcoin for legitimate purchases? - page 3. (Read 5459 times)

It's difficult but possible. Just as systems were getting in place and easier the regulators moved in and screwed everything up.

Litecoins are being accepted at more & more sites.

On the conversion to fiat... you buy precious metals and take them to your local dealer to convert back into fiat.

Nope - no credit cards, have to be registered with some service called zipmark or something (I've never heard of it) to then have your bank send money over.

Obtaining bitcoin in the United States is a hurdle.

https://www.bitinstant.com/ this is what your looking for.

But he is correct.  The biggest problem Bitcoin has right now is the difficulty of getting Bitcoin with fiat, especially in North America (I am assuming).  I hyped my friend on Bitcoin, and he wanted to grab his credit card and buy a few coins right now.  What we found out is if you don't have a miner, you have to go through several hoops in order to actually buy into the market.  I believe North America needs a registered company where you can easily exchange fiat for Bitcoins, and back again.  All anonymity would be lost, but I think that is what gives politicians ect the grounds for saying Bitcoin is only for criminals and Zealots.

Paypal would actually be the big winner if this happened, so I don't think they would be wanting this not to happen, as it would be the easiest way to transfer Fiat into Bitcoins.

In the end my friend never did end up purchasing any Bitcoins to use in the Bitcoin economy.  If we can't make it so even someone that is sold on the idea can't get in, how do we expect others to follow?

Classic bitcoin bashing from Paypal. They have the most to lose from the rise of bitcoin, so it's only logic. Someone should tell M.Marcus that the vast majority of bitcoin users are legit law-abiding citizens. Saying the opposite is like reading drunk driving stories in the newspaper and claiming that all drivers are drunk.

That follows if you have fiat to convert. But what if you are mining or earning your coins? Then the coins are your salary - maybe your only salary - and you need to decide whether to spend or save - if the purchasing power of the coins looks likely to rise due to the coin design, then the urge is to save.

If you are earning alt-coins - say merge mining an alt-coin along with your bitcoins - then the tendency is to save the bitcoins and use the alt-coins for expenses. But because no ecommerce site takes alt-coins, folk are forced to go to an exchange, sell them and then send the fiat to their bank minus hefty bank charges, to buy their dinner. So why not allow these folk to spend the coins directly, that way no exchange and bank costs.

The above scenario is pretty common - there are loads of threads asking why people merge-mine alt-coins - and the answer is that the alt coins pay for expenses. Now we just need an ecommerce person to exploit that...

I've bought some web hosting, and drooled over a few catalogs.  But unlike many others hereabouts, I don't have a small fortune in BTC.  I have most of what I have invested in ASICminer, hoping to grow it a bit.  This isn't get-rich-quick.  My mining days are pretty well behind me.  I only ever did it part time with the video cards in our two computers, and those cards are just not up to the task anymore. If I am going to participate in the economy, I need a way to make sure my BTC don't spend to zero.  I believe in the principles, and my interest in silkroad or other illegal activity is nil. But with the increasing difficulty of turning fiat into BTC, at least in the US, there will be a stranglehold on spending. And because I don't hold a lot of coin, I need to have a _lot_ of trust in the merchant, since the transaction is irreversible.

I guess the bottom line is, I am interested in shopping with my coin, and have done.  But as a consumer, I have to be more careful than I am with my card/fiat.  Card transactions are reversible if need be (and I've only ever done that once in my life), and more fiat comes my way every other week.  But coin does not.  Mining with my two 6700-series cards is...laughable at this point.

I'd consider offering payment flexibility, BTC and fiat.  I recently read about a guy in San Francisco with a shop (tea shop, maybe?? bakery??) on the Embarcadero that takes BTC or USD.  And gives change either way, mix/match.  I don't know if he's registered under FinCen, or if he needs to be, since he's only doing it when making change for a purchase.  May be a flexibility option to look into.

Actually, price or the expectation on the price does not matter.  I would love to spend my coins when I could to buy things I want (at the moment not yet, unfortunately), and would then just buy back the coins spent.  But maybe you're right that this may be a psychological barrier for some people.

I still don't get this hoarder-argument.
You can hoard and still spend coins without any problem, just rebuy any coins you have used right after that.

People hoard their bitcoins. They are reluctant to spend because they think the price will go up and they don't want to lose out - they don't want to be that pizza guy paying $2million for his dinner.

Suggestion: why don't bitcoinstores and other ecommerce types add an alt-coin payment option to your sites? I know the devcoin community is desperately looking for stuff to spend their coins on. (Devcoin is not a hoarding currency, it's a spending currency in that no-one thinks the price will be massive in a few years, so no psychological barrier to spending).

Due to the way it's been designed, bitcoin will attract more hoarders and speculators as time goes on, as it has gold-like properties. The alt-coins are where commerce will be developed because most have not been designed for hoarding (eg much larger issue of coins etc)

Think to which audience you cater. Most Bitcoin users are still mainly geek.

I bought computer parts, ASIC, precious metal, VPS, domain name, coding and graphical work.

I've sold mining rig, GPU, ASIC and 300 PCI-E riser cables.

Bought over $20K of bitcoins for friends with a small margin.

Did only legal transaction.

Agreed. It is a good list.

+1  Great info for everyone considering a business.

I ran my own small business for over 20 years. When I sold it I had 5 locations that were doing quite well. During my ownership I opened and closed 7 locations because I was in the wrong market/bad location. Running a small business is an experiment. If you succeed great but success takes time and a lot of hard work. I remember sitting in a location for about three months, after a mass of advertising and watching the door never open. I thought to myself well here's another failed location. I guess I'll tell the landlord that I need to exercise the clause to term the lease. Then suddenly customers started showing up and that location became one of my most successful.

Here's some free advice.
 
You haven't given your business enough time to succeed or fail. Success could still happen but you have to really believe in it and work hard for it.

No one person can know every aspect of running a small business. That requires a level of expertise across diciplines that doesn't exist in just one individual. Professional website designers can make a selling website but can't deal with government officials. Legal reps can deal with leases and government licensure but can't help you with suppliers and so on. Hire several consultants or a consulting company. They can help you work out the fine details for making sure you have a chance at success. The money you spend will return to you 1000 fold.

Have enough capital behind you to survive. This is the most important part. If you don't have capital reserves to cover any contingency then even success will be failure eventually. What are those contingencies? That's why you need consultants. Many people, even consultants, will tell you it's key to get cash sales as quickly as possible to survive and this is good advice only if you're short on capital.

Market your business EFFICIENTLY! Most of my business associates would throw masses of money at marketing to only see small increases in sales. They were advertising in the wrong market (don't run an ad on Trinity Broadcasting Network to sell FSM t-shirts).

Read every piece of information ever written about your business. You absolutely MUST be an expert in your field to be successful. If the other guy knows more than you he will win and you will lose.

Find out what your product is worth at retail and if you can live on the profit. Don't sell it for less. I know it sounds counter to every business plan you have ever heard about but discounting your product or service for quick sales doesn't work, even for big business. When big business does it they see it as a marketing expense not a business plan. Small businesses can't afford to do it.

Talk to other business owners with similar businesses (Bitcoin businesses). They can tell you their mistakes (and yours) and keep you from repeating them. Really listen to them and understand what they're saying. If they're judgmental and harsh - roll with it and gleen everything useful that you can out of what they tell you. Don't listen to people that aren't running a business and never have. They don't know what they're talking about and can't really relate.

Never tell your customer base that you're on hard times or having difficulty with your business. This causes them to lose faith in you and your doomed. Even if your living on beans and sawdust bread your customers need to think your driving a limo everywhere you go.

If you're interested, I ran a small chain of tool and equipment rental stores and was gobbled up by a big chain. I retired at 56. If my ideas help you don't tip me. Roll that back into your business and reward me with seeing another sucessful Bitcoin business.

Yeah, I gotta say I'm not very inclined to do business with someone who doesn't like bitcoin and isn't working to see it succeed.

Self-fulfilling prophet.

His business will fail because just like he knew, bitcoins weren't for real.
And all those people making money off it, well they are just criminals, that's why.

Professionalism, or its lack, could be a factor... (clicked on bitcoinstore link in OP's post)

Good point! India is practically outlawing paypal.

3. In countries which is banned by PayPal...