PeachBitcoin.com | P2P Bitcoin Exchange 🍑 #kycfree - page 2.

dkbit98

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For everyone who had concerns about PeachBitcoin source code, good news that developers released it on their github page, and it is verifiable with Commons Clause plus MIT license.
I know clear Open Source license would probably be better, but they wanted to have basic code protection against forking, and I can understand that more than when some hardware wallets are doing it.
Blog article is explaining more this decision to go with MIT-CC license:
https://peachbitcoin.com/blog/open-sourcing-our-peach-app/

Code:

(c) Copyright 2023 by Peach Sàrl.

Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:

The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.

"Commons Clause" License Condition v1.0

The Software is provided to you by the Licensor under the License, as defined below, subject to the following condition.

Without limiting other conditions in the License, the grant of rights under the License will not include, and the License does not grant to you, the right to Sell the Software.

For purposes of the foregoing, "Sell" means practicing any or all of the rights granted to you under the License to provide to third parties, for a fee or other consideration (including without limitation fees for hosting or consulting/ support services related to the Software), a product or service whose value derives, entirely or substantially, from the functionality of the Software. Any license notice or attribution required by the License must also include this Commons Clause License Condition notice.

Software: All peach app associated files. License: MIT Licensor: Peach Sàrl

Source: https://github.com/Peach2Peach/peach-app/blob/develop/LICENSE.md

This makes PeachBitcoin one of the best mobile options for exchanging Bitcoin for cash, with no-kyc at the moment ^{(with reasonable limits)}.

PS
Make sure to update to latest Peach version that was released few days ago.

dkbit98

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Quote from: icopress on July 22, 2023, 05:38:47 PM

Let's just think logically together (why the Peach is very promising).

I was one of the first guys who wrote about PeachBitcoin in forum, so I deserve some share of future profits, right? Just kidding, but I am open for business Grin

They have big growth potential because many people still didn't hear about Peach or they never used it, so there are no sell/buy offers available in many countries.
Biggest problem for me so far is the fact they still didn't switch to (more) open version of code, and they are not available anywhere outside Europe, as far as I know.
I would also like to see Peach web version, that can work as alternative for people who already signed up with smartphones.

RickDeckard

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Quote from: icopress on July 22, 2023, 05:38:47 PM

Ten31 became the leader of the round (Pre-seed).
At the beginning of May, Peach surpassed one million trading volume in CHF (which at the time was approximately 45 BTC). ^{For a project that started in September 2022, I find this amount amazing, and it makes me believe that P2P adoption has a good future ahead of it.}
There is practically no competition among peer-to-peer trading platforms (not centralized exchanges advertising themselves as P2P). ^{There are only a few names on the list - Bisq, Hodlhodl, AgoraDesk, Robosats.}
Already, Peach has three times as many buy orders as the infamous Binance P2P.
Peach fully operates on a Bitcoin Standard (Peach doesn’t have a bank account, has its reserve in BTC and will get its revenue in BTC.

Adding to this list is the fact that Peach has managed to reach these values with almost zero marketing and with a Beta product. Once they iron out some issues and polish their app overall, I'm sure they'll be able to reach higher levels. Their tactic so far - word of mouth - is good to generate awareness with almost no cost, but once they start focusing on marketing I'm sure they'll attract a lot more users. They just need to keep doing what they've been doing greatly so far.

icopress

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Quote from: RickDeckard on July 22, 2023, 10:29:10 AM

I think that being transparent on this subject is always good [...]

That's why I like Peach so much... I've spent dozens of hours texting Steph and I can say with confidence that she will defend Peach's ideals at all costs. They are having a pretty busy days right now as they prepare for the next seed round and if I had half a million dollars in Bitcoin I would definitely invest in them as Peach has a lot of potential. Lol... if anyone has half a million dollars in BTC let me know... i would like to borrow from you to invest in Peach.

Let's just think logically together (why the Peach is very promising).

Ten31 became the leader of the round (Pre-seed).
At the beginning of May, Peach surpassed one million trading volume in CHF (which at the time was approximately 45 BTC). ^{For a project that started in September 2022, I find this amount amazing, and it makes me believe that P2P adoption has a good future ahead of it.}
There is practically no competition among peer-to-peer trading platforms (not centralized exchanges advertising themselves as P2P). ^{There are only a few names on the list - Bisq, Hodlhodl, AgoraDesk, Robosats.}
Already, Peach has three times as many buy orders as the infamous Binance P2P.
Peach fully operates on a Bitcoin Standard (Peach doesn’t have a bank account, has its reserve in BTC and will get its revenue in BTC.

RickDeckard

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Quote from: LeGaulois on July 22, 2023, 10:09:37 AM

Another thing:
They said the dispute rate is about 2%. Very low to me, but the matter was they're not in shame to say it. I was a bit surprised.
I've never heard a platform having this transparency about it.

I think that being transparent on this subject is always good since disputes (and how they are proceeded, how much there are, etc) are always the first question that someone asks when they hear about P2P markets (at least whenever I engage in this discussion with someone else) and that is understandable since people want to feel that there is a system protecting both buyers/sellers. They are also very active on their Telegram channel as well regarding this - You just have to post your dispute and someone from their team will tell you their current status and what they can do to help you out. Overall a very direct and clear communication (which is great to see!), that allows for an easier adoption by trusting the system.

LeGaulois

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Quote from: icopress on July 22, 2023, 07:57:36 AM

I didn't know Nostr until 2-3 days ago. (yes I know, what a shame). It's amazing what can be done with it and when I thought about it, the idea is very similar to Bitcoin's keys.
By jumping in the train, PeachBitcoin would really be an early adoptor in this area.

Another thing:
They said the dispute rate is about 2%. Very low to me, but the matter was they're not in shame to say it. I was a bit surprised.
I've never heard a platform having this transparency about it.

(generally speaking, honesty is rewarding soon or later)

RickDeckard

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Taking advantage of that update, I recently also found out that QnA (Head of Customer Service of Foundation Devices[1]) wrote a really in depth guide[2] regarding how to use Peach Bitcoin that is really useful for users that may be interested in trying out the service.
Regarding going open source, @capoczino, the lead developer of the wallet, has recently talked about it:

Quote

To be clear, the app will be source code verifiable under MIT-CC

But we are going to make some parts available under MIT license such as the API wrapper

[1]https://foundationdevices.com/about/
[2]https://bitcoiner.guide/peach/
[3]https://nitter.nl/capoczino/status/1681546380836319232

icopress

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Looks like Peach is heading in the right direction. Tongue

Quote from: https://twitter.com/peachbitcoin

I also spoke with Steph not too long ago and she was kind enough to share what they want to focus on in the near future.

Code:

1. Open order book, peach can be built on nostr 
2. Built-in market discovery data (I think that’s the killer use case) 
3. LN integration

Guys... I can't tell you what a positive charge comes from this bitcoin maximalist.

RickDeckard

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Quote from: RickDeckard on May 03, 2023, 06:13:19 PM

Secondly, as per Steph announcement (who I assume runs the OP account) today, Peach has surpassed the millionth CHF volume traded (which equals to roughly 45 BTC as of now). For a project that started in September of 2022[1][2], I find this amount awesome and it makes be believe that P2P adoption has a good future ahead.

Sorry for the double post but thought that this could be interesting - As of 15th of June, Peach has surpassed 55 P2P BTC traded in their app/service. In about 1.5 months they were able to increase the volume by 10 BTC which is great considering that their marketing is still low and they are still ironing out their app. Congrats @Peach Bitcoin!

RickDeckard

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Quote from: icopress on June 06, 2023, 07:34:24 AM

It looks like my unobtrusive congratulation turned into a lot of retweets for my pizza. Cool

Quote from: https://twitter.com/LoveIsBitcoin21/status/1663925477394767873

That sure is some devotion to both pizza and Peach! I sure hope it was as tasty as it looks! Peach gets exposition and you get to taste some delicious pizza - Win win?

icopress

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It looks like my unobtrusive congratulation turned into a lot of retweets for my pizza. Cool

Quote from: https://twitter.com/LoveIsBitcoin21/status/1663925477394767873

dkbit98

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Quote from: RickDeckard on May 25, 2023, 05:07:18 PM

Reading your definition of it and after listening to the podcast section, I would say that yes, it is the same license. This is mostly because your information matches with my bullet points - they want to protect the code to be used by other people and prevent (exterior) financial benefit.

This license is better than closed source but it's clearly not open source.
I don't want this to become industry standard, just because you don't want someone else to fork your code (and maybe improve it).
However, this is still better than current license they are using now, but they shouldn't put open source label on it.

Quote from: n0nce on May 26, 2023, 05:56:52 AM

It would only be fair to let people use the code freely by e.g. launching a modified version of the code, for instance to make a Monero exchange or whatnot. Then, the original project can learn from the bug fixes and modifications of the 'fork team' and implement those changes, too. Win-win.

I guess we should all thank ''NVK coldcard'' for this invention... shame^(not) Satoshi was not so ''smart'' to do the same thing with Bitcoin license Tongue

n0nce

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Quote from: RickDeckard on May 25, 2023, 05:07:18 PM

Quote from: dkbit98 on May 25, 2023, 04:51:45 PM

Dies MITCC means MIT Common Clause license?
If that is the case, than this is not really open source license, similar stuff is used by Coldcard and this is verifiable code.
I will have to find some time to listen that podcast.

Reading your definition of it and after listening to the podcast section, I would say that yes, it is the same license. This is mostly because your information matches with my bullet points - they want to protect the code to be used by other people and prevent (exterior) financial benefit.

I'm not a fan of this either. They want the benefits of open-source: have other people look at their code, getting people to help them find bugs, the good reputation of FOSS etc. while not committing to real 'free open-source software'.
It would only be fair to let people use the code freely by e.g. launching a modified version of the code, for instance to make a Monero exchange or whatnot. Then, the original project can learn from the bug fixes and modifications of the 'fork team' and implement those changes, too. Win-win.
Also security-wise, I highly doubt you will get any 'free security reviews' and bug fixing pull requests if people are meant to do them purely out of the kindness of their heart.

RickDeckard

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Quote from: dkbit98 on May 25, 2023, 04:51:45 PM

Dies MITCC means MIT Common Clause license?
If that is the case, than this is not really open source license, similar stuff is used by Coldcard and this is verifiable code.
I will have to find some time to listen that podcast.

Reading your definition of it and after listening to the podcast section, I would say that yes, it is the same license. This is mostly because your information matches with my bullet points - they want to protect the code to be used by other people and prevent (exterior) financial benefit.

dkbit98

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Quote from: n0nce on May 23, 2023, 03:20:28 AM

Sure, but I prefer reading code instead. Only code gives you the full picture and confidence about what data is really collected and uploaded to their servers.

I agree, even if I am not developer and can't read the code very well, but I know other security experts will do it.
Good news is that Peach devs announced they are moving everything to opensource, but without any eta.
It would be best if they could say more about that, since they are already registered in forum.

Quote from: RickDeckard on May 23, 2023, 02:41:09 PM

The planned license to implement in the MITCC. MITCC basically allows any user to use the code to create another application but aren't able to create a company based on the code used (by Peach Wallet).

Dies MITCC means MIT Common Clause license?
If that is the case, than this is not really open source license, similar stuff is used by Coldcard and this is verifiable code.
I will have to find some time to listen that podcast.

RickDeckard

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Quote from: Agbe on May 23, 2023, 04:37:42 PM

Then you have to create two campaigns here in the forum for the massive awareness. Signature campaign and Review campaign. These two campaigns will give you enough customers to the site.

I don't think that Peach is ready for mass marketing (yet) and it seems that I am not the only one thinking about that[1]. If I were them, I would wait until their previously shared roadmap is done[2] before considering making a signature campaign (if they ever do one). The reason for that is simple - you have to have a mature product in order to receive/attract a larger audience than they currently have. So far the UI also seems to be a bit rough in some areas but also the options could be improved (for example you only have the option to empty your Peach Wallet to an address of yours, you can't make a custom transfer). Make no mistake, I totally support small companies in spreading a word regarding their product, but I also believe that in order for a campaign to be successful, the product itself has to have a certain maturity in order to avoid the usual problems that non-mature app have (crashing, confusing UI, servers overloading, amongst others).

In the future, if they do decide to run a campaign here, I'm sure icopress is up to the task

.

PS: I think it is worthwhile to mention that, despise having invested 0 sats[3] in their app, their volume traded has surpassed a million CHF[4]. Congratulations on the achievement @Peach Bitcoin!

[1]https://nitter.it/peachbitcoin/status/1659993332196470785
[2]https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.62121530
[3]https://nitter.it/peachbitcoin/status/1661434993606885389
[4]https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.62190426

Agbe

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Quote from: Peach Bitcoin on April 11, 2023, 11:34:05 AM

Hey Bitcointalk!

I would like to introduce you to Peach, a mobile application that directly connects buyers and sellers of BTC. Bitcoin is winning, we believe we are part of the good people who wanna win with Bitcoin, and we want Peach, whose aim is make stacking sats p2p the standard, to be known.

Though I am commenting late but nothing is late in the forum. Exchange is one of the best platform in the cryptocurrency ecosystem world. But which of the exchange is the best customer friendly is the issue on ground. The one that is trying right now is Binance exchange platform. So if you are coming to the exchange platforms then you have compete with Binance if you can do that.

Quote from: Peach Bitcoin on April 11, 2023, 11:34:05 AM

Building a great product is cool, but it’s cooler if people actually use it.

People will use it when they discovered that the platform is good to use. It is the people will still advertise it to other people so the major thing here is your customer friendly attitude.

Quote from: Peach Bitcoin on April 11, 2023, 11:34:05 AM

We want peach to learn from the user insights! We intend to strengthen our position in the p2p niche and want to start with Bitcointalk, moreover, we have already started some preparations, so we will announce ourselves in full force very soon! Please feel free to ask!

- https://twitter.com/peachbitcoin
- https://peachbitcoin.com/how-it-works/

Then you have to create two campaigns here in the forum for the massive awareness. Signature campaign and Review campaign. These two campaigns will give you enough customers to the site.

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Quote from: n0nce on May 23, 2023, 03:20:28 AM

Quote from: dkbit98 on May 22, 2023, 04:04:59 PM

It's certainly a good to read Terms & Conditions and Privacy Policy page before using Peach:
https://peachbitcoin.com/privacy-policy/
https://peachbitcoin.com/terms-and-conditions/

Sure, but I prefer reading code instead. Only code gives you the full picture and confidence about what data is really collected and uploaded to their servers.

Just letting you know that this has been discussed in the beginning of the thread[1] - the plan of this application is to go open source in the near future (I would say that it still could happen this year, but one never knows). Peach also gave an the interview recently[2] with the Foundation team and the open source subject is discussed here[3]. On that subject, I could sum up their reply in the following bullet points:

They want verifiable source code first to legally protect them against possible application copies based on their work;
It also took them a lot of time to get their API ready (which seems to be almost ready) in order to make sure that 1 person only has 1 account and doesn't exploit the system (in this case the daily trade limit) and thus comply with regulations. Naturally their API will also be open source;
The planned license to implement in the MITCC. MITCC basically allows any user to use the code to create another application but aren't able to create a company based on the code used (by Peach Wallet). This was also explained better on this segment of the podcast[4].

[1]https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.62121530
[2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_dh6nusghk
[3]https://youtu.be/w_dh6nusghk?t=2196
[4]https://youtu.be/w_dh6nusghk?t=2386

n0nce

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Quote from: dkbit98 on May 22, 2023, 04:04:59 PM

Quote from: n0nce on May 19, 2023, 08:11:34 PM

Why limited? I'm really interested to understand why this needs to be an app. Maybe I will just install it in an emulator and have a look myself.

It's limited for The Bitcoin Company (and their cards), and I don't know why, maybe because it's still in early beta phase.
I have no idea how thsi would work for Peach Bitcoin.

I was looking for a technical reason; if it's due to being in early beta, they could just as well have focused on getting it to work (at all; as well as with non-limited functionality) in an anonymous browser before doing the app, for instance.

Quote from: dkbit98 on May 22, 2023, 04:04:59 PM

It's certainly a good to read Terms & Conditions and Privacy Policy page before using Peach:
https://peachbitcoin.com/privacy-policy/
https://peachbitcoin.com/terms-and-conditions/

Sure, but I prefer reading code instead. Only code gives you the full picture and confidence about what data is really collected and uploaded to their servers.

joker_josue

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Quote from: n0nce on May 19, 2023, 02:12:39 PM

Quote from: joker_josue on May 19, 2023, 02:01:03 PM

The question now arises is how the app stores this type of communication. Whether it's point to point or not. But that, I can no longer answer. On the other hand, as there is no kyc, it is difficult to obtain a court order to present the data. Whose data, if they don't identify anyone?

Looking at my example. Even if the seller has problems with the law, the only information they have is the transfer of money via mobile phone. A system widely used among friends and family to pay for group meals, so little to no indication that it has anything to do with BTC.

Well, mobile phone numbers are nowadays often tied to real identities using KYC. So if this communication is not encrypted end-to-end without backdoors or implementation flaws, a three-letter agency could knock at Peach's door, fetch a copy of their data, map phone numbers to identities and end up with a nice list of 'suspicious P2P Bitcoin investors'.

Just one more note on this point: you don't need to do everything on the same mobile phone.

You can install/use the app on one device. And then make the payment via another device. Payments are made outside the app, so you can easily do things without linking one thing to another.

Topic: PeachBitcoin.com | P2P Bitcoin Exchange 🍑 #kycfree - page 2. (Read 1519 times)