Topic: Russian ruble is scam - page 3. (Read 2071 times)

I read about it in many places but I will have to search for that information again.

Where did you get the idea that the Russian-speaking population in eastern Ukraine was subjected to systematic contempt and oppression by the Kyiv regime? Give examples, sources, we will discuss.   In the meantime, on your part there are only slogans on this matter.
Regarding the Russian patriots who criticized Putin, I know that for such criticism Girkin was put in prison and already sentenced to imprisonment, and the second shot himself right at the front because he was subjected to threats and oppression.

Are you saying that the Ukrainian Armed Forces were under fire from the separatists and Russian military from the territory of the DPR and LPR? Nothing can be further from the truth. This is a lie. The artillery fire was started by the Ukrainian nazi but not by the separatists or the Russian Army. And there was no Russian army there in that time. There were a number of Russian volunteers who came to protect the Russian world so to to speak but not the Russian army.

Moreover I know that at that time the Russian authorities complied with requests received from Ukraine and handed some separatists over to Ukraine where they were tortured and killed.

Do you think that it would be absolutely normal for the Ukrainian Armed Forces to be under fire from the separatists and Russian military from the territory of the DPR and LPR and not respond to fire, because there could be civilians there? Your ideas about military operations are interesting. This then is not military action, this is the execution of one side. And responding with fire to fire is, in your opinion, murder. Interesting logic.

Tell me then how this logic was applied in two Chechen wars, when, as you write, the province tried to break away from Russia. And Russia didn’t fire at all on the cities of Chechnya? May I remind you how Russia practically turned the central city of Chechnya, Grozny, into ruins? So which side in this war were the killers on? Or if regions “break away” from Ukraine, this is normal, but at the same time such regions are subject to destruction if they want to secede from Russia?

Yes, You are right in saying that the pace of shelling was not that intensive but it did happen and people in the streets were indeed killed by artillery fire. So the killings of civilian population by artillery fire did take place and you admit it, Then why are you arguing with me?

It does not matter what was the reason for shelling and it does not matter at all whether or not the Kiev regime was vacillating whether or not to start shelling. They nevertheless gave an order to start shelling and bombing these 2 provinces. So the Kiev regime is full of murderers who regarded people in the east of Ukraine somewhat inferior to them. This is called racism, pure and simple.

Do you want to say that Russian speaking population in the east of Ukraine has not been systematically despised and oppressed by the Kiev regime? I have read many stories about such incidents almost every week during 2014-2022 period. And I did not watch Russian state TV. All I was reading at that time were the blogs of some Russian patriots that openly criticized the Putin regime. Still many Russian voluntreers in the Russian forces are still criticizing Putin.

You again have incorrect information about the actions of the Ukrainian government and its people. The events of the end of 2013, which took place mainly on the Independence Square in Kyiv and were called the Revolution of Dignity, were exclusively directed against Yanukovych’s entourage, who abandoned Ukraine’s previously taken course of joining the European Union. It was because of this that people took to the streets in outrage. But since Putin saw that Ukraine would escape Russia’s control if it joined the European Union, he decided to forcefully turn Ukraine away from the European Union, and at the same time from possible accession to NATO in the distant future. But the Russians were practically indifferent to the pro-European positions of the Ukrainians. That’s why the Kremlin came up with the myth that Ukraine is becoming anti-Russian. Otherwise, the Kremlin would not have been able to mobilize Russians for war against Ukraine. The hostility towards Russians is now increasing only because Russian soldiers are now trying to destroy Ukraine and Ukrainians, and the remaining 70 percent of the Russian population still supports this war.

And now about the bombing of the “breakaway provinces”. Putin’s initial plan was to return the DPR and LPR to Ukraine after some time, but on the basis of autonomy, in which these pseudo-republics would have their own police, courts, army and representation in the legislative body of Ukraine - the Verkhovna Rada. If this happened, this autonomy with the full control of Russia would strictly prevent Ukraine from joining the European Union and NATO. But Ukraine, understanding this, could not accommodate such plans of the Kremlin. Then they decided that they would encourage Ukraine to make such a decision by constant shelling of Ukrainian territory from the demarcation line. For some time, understanding the essence of these provocative attacks, Kyiv did not give permission to the Ukrainian Armed Forces to return fire. But the soldiers at the demarcation line began to be indignant: they were under constant fire, unable to hit enemy firing points. Therefore, after some time, such permission was given.

And now about the shelling of the LPR and DPR, and in particular, Donetsk. You claim that from 2014 to 2022, Ukraine constantly bombed these territories, destroying cities and their populations. The positions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces near Avdeevka were only a few kilometers from the city of Donetsk and cannon artillery could freely reach there. What would have happened to Donetsk in eight years if all this time the Ukrainian Armed Forces had been constantly shelling and bombing it? Let me remind you: Russia is now turning large populated areas of Ukraine into ruins in just a couple of months. But even now there is no major destruction in Donetsk. From time to time, the Ukrainian Armed Forces only carry out targeted strikes against concentrations of enemy personnel and equipment. In addition, the Ukrainian Armed Forces could return Donetsk under its control many times over. Periodically, they drove into Donetsk in armored vehicles and noted the almost complete absence, not only of defense, but even of enemy troops. But if the Ukrainian Armed Forces had done this, then Donetsk would definitely have been turned into ruins, as Russia is now trying to do with the liberated Kherson.

Today I stumbled across an interesting series of articles about the Ukrainian conflict.
Here is a link:

The economic viability of Ukraine is now questionable. Either those men are dying or the ones abroad who fail to renew nationality documents for fear of breaking the tyrannical laws in Ukraine (cease to remain Ukrainian)

https://imontheball.com/the-genocide-that-nobody-is-discussing/ Poland will get a chunk, Russia will keep the East & the money spent will be a fulcrum to spill battles & conflict throughout Europe.

Wrote about on my blog why I think the next round by the military industrial complex will not be in Iran, Syria or Africa, but Europe.
https://imontheball.com/europe-is-the-next-big-battlefield-again/


After reading it through I wrote the following to the author of those two articles:

I have read both of your articles and since I am Russian myself and have been living in Russia since the time of USSR I would say that you did a good job by giving the right eye opening information in both of your articles.

There's only one thing that I would like to add regarding those Ukrainians who managed to escape to the West from the meat grinder:

Now that their passports have expired all those Ukrainians who escaped to the West can escape to Russia where they would be met with sympathy and treated well and not sent to the meat grinder. If they go back to Ukraine they would be sent to the meat grinder.

Do you see the irony of the situation? Many of the Ukrainians who escaped to the West hate Putin but now they might find out the hard way that only Russia is their friend  and not the West because I read that countries of the West are already thinking about how to send all these male Ukrainian migrants back to Ukraine where they would be slaughtered in the war.

Not oppressed there? What are you smoking? It is being oppressed there every single day!

If there is a fascist regime in Ukraine, then why is the Russian-speaking population not oppressed there?

Well. I have read all your post up to the end and I must admit that you described the events quite correctly.
There's only one thing that should be stressed. What Russia did was not a waging of war against Ukraine but assissting Ukrainian separatists in their armed struggle against the new fascist regime in Kiev.

I believe that this was an honorable deed that was done by Russia but you say that Russia waged a war against Ukraine. Of course the new fascist regime in Kiev after Maidan was a regime that was going to convert Ukraine into anti Russia and the majority of people living in the east of Ukraine as well as Crimea did not want to obey the Kiev regime. That's why they decided to separate from Kiev and as a result of this the Kiev regime sent ATO forces to the east of Ukraine and ordered the bombing of the 2 breakaway provinces.     

Well, let's count how many years Russia has been waging war against Ukraine. If we consider the chronology of the development of events, everything falls into place.
Since the summer of 2013, various action plans for the seizure of Ukrainian territories have begun to be worked out in the circles of the Russian authorities. In September 2013, during Russian-Belarusian exercises in the Kaliningrad region, “operations to protect compatriots allegedly oppressed on the territory of a foreign state” were practiced. According to the scenario of these exercises, “unrest and attempts to seize power occur on the territory of a neighboring state, illegal armed groups are created,” and Russia and Belarus, as neighboring countries, “come in and restore order.” Does this remind you of anything? There was no Maidan yet, and the plan to seize Ukraine was already being worked out by Russia. Subsequently, Russia actually used Euromaidan as a justification for the annexation of Crimea and the subsequent hybrid war against Ukraine in the Donbass.

  By February 23, 2014, Russian special forces received their first orders for Crimea and within a few days the initial covert transfer of troops to the peninsula took place, where, meanwhile, civil confrontation continued.
On February 23-24, under pressure from pro-Russian activists, the executive authorities of Sevastopol were changed.
On February 26, supporters of the Mejlis and the new Ukrainian government tried to seize the building of the Crimean parliament and blocked its work.
  Early in the morning of February 27, the active phase of Russian actions in Crimea began - Russian special forces seized the buildings of the authorities of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, after which deputies of the Supreme Council of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, who gathered in the parliament building, dismissed the government of Anatoly Mogilev and appointed the leader of the Russian party as the head of the new government of Crimea unity" by Sergei Aksenov. He declared non-recognition of the new leadership of Ukraine and turned to Russia for “assistance in ensuring peace and tranquility in the territory of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea.

So, in February 2014, Russia captured the Ukrainian peninsula of Crimea and after that in March, at gunpoint, it held the so-called “referendum” on independence. From that time to the present day, it is already the 11th year since the Crimean peninsula was illegally occupied by Russia.

  Now about the events in Donbass. After the events on the Maidan of Independence in Kyiv, rallies of opponents of the new government established in Kyiv after the removal of President Yanukovych are taking place in the cities of eastern Ukraine. Some activists come out with pro-Russian slogans, in particular, calling for the annexation of the eastern regions to Russia according to the “Crimean scenario.”
On April 6, 2014, rally participants seized the buildings of the Donetsk Regional State Administration, as well as the building of the Lugansk Directorate of the Security Service of Ukraine.
On April 12, several dozen people under the command of former Russian FSB employee Igor Girkin (Strelkov) seized administrative buildings in Slavyansk, Donetsk region.
  After Petro Poroshenko took office as President of Ukraine, Kyiv launched a large-scale counter-offensive. Slavyansk, Kramatorsk, Mariupol, Severodonetsk, Lisichansk come under the control of the ATO forces. But the offensive of the ATO forces was interrupted by their severe defeat near Ilovaisk. The course of the military operation was turned around by eight tactical groups of regular troops of the Russian Federation, who crossed the border in armored vehicles and took part in the hostilities. After this, the separatists acquire armored vehicles, which were allegedly found in the mines of Donbass. The Russian military had a significant influence on the separatists, supplying them with weapons and carrying out shelling at their requests. It was under the direct influence of Russian troops and its armored personnel in Minsk that an agreement was concluded that established the demarcation line between the DPR/LPR and Ukraine.
By the way, at the beginning of 2023, the ECHR made a decision according to which the territories of eastern Ukraine controlled by the DPR and LPR were de facto under the control of Russia.

The Russian attack has continued for the eleventh year? What are you smoking?
After Maidan in 2013 the Ukainian Army started to fire on the territory of 2 break away provinces of Ukraine and this has been going on for 10 years before Russia started special miltary operation of denazification and demilitarization of Ukraine.
Are you calling this military agression of Kiev against Donbass and Lugansk the Russian attack?  
Ukrainian nazies have been killing innocent civil people in Donetsk and Lugansk since 2014 up to 2022 and you are saying that it was the Russian attack?

Before Russia attacked Ukraine in 2014 and seized part of its territory militarily, there was no hatred towards Russians. And probably, about half of the population of Ukraine themselves spoke Russian, although they considered themselves Ukrainians. Nothing can be done - the legacy of the USSR, when the Russian language was implanted throughout the territory and national languages were forced out. But the Russian attack has continued for the eleventh year. During this time, a younger generation has grown up and sees with their own eyes the consequences of Russian aggression. Do you want to say that they should have loved the Russians for this?

But before the full-scale invasion of Ukraine by Russians in February 2022, there was also no hatred of Ukrainians towards Russians and there were no conflicts on this basis at all. In addition, I would not say that there is hatred towards Russians in Ukraine now. Most likely, there is a rejection of everything Russian and this is quite natural.   And I agree with you: it is quite natural that young people consider Russian the language of the occupiers, because the occupiers speak it.

You are right in your thinking that I found the quote function too complicated for me. I have no problem with using it if I want to reply to the whole message of my opponent but I find it too complicated for me to write my comment to only some extracts from my opponents posts. I will try to learn how to use this function properly.

@gloffs. You are using the available functions incorrectly when writing a post. Apparently, you simply copy your opponent’s text, changing its font, and then write your comment. Other forum users may perceive this post design as your contradictory thoughts, and not a dialogue with your opponent.

First, click on the “quote” option, which is located on the right side of the topic title line above the text of your opponent’s post and in the window that opens, after your opponent’s text, insert or write your text.

  If you need to give a comment on a specific phrase of your opponent, then after clicking “quote” in the window that opens, delete the text of your opponent that you do not need and write your text below.

If you need to place your opponent’s text a second time in order to write your comment under it, then you first need to copy the first two lines at the top of the window with your opponent’s data and date, which begin with the words “quote author”, then the opponent’s text, after which you can write or insert your comment.

In all cases, when faced with inconvenient questions, you have a habit of referring to the influence of the United States and its CIA.


But this is reality. What world are you living in?
I am  living in a world where the US has the largest army in the world and where the US pokes its nose into affairs of almost all countries of the world.
This is CIA, my friend.  This is life.

In the case of Finland and Sweden, the US has nothing to do with it.


Are you sure? Can you swear by your mother that this is true?

These states would still be outside NATO, but Russia's direct military aggression in Ukraine changed their attitude towards a neutral status and they also became concerned about their security. And the best guarantee of security for European states against the threat of Russian invasion is NATO membership. For many residents of Finland, the attack of Russia as part of the former USSR on Finland in 1939-1940 is still fresh in their memory. Therefore, like no one else, they immediately soberly assessed the growing military threat from Russia.


Oh, oh, oh. The 2 atomic bombs that the US dropped on Japan in 1945 are also still fresh in my memory.
The Vietnam war is also still fresh in my memory. The inside job carried out by FBI and CIA in 9-11 is also still fresh in my memory. It's all still fresh in my memory.

So, as a result of a direct and open military attack on Ukraine, Russia has 1,271.8 kilometers of land border with NATO member Finland. But here’s a paradox: instead of strengthening the border with this new NATO member, the number of Russian troops on the Kola Peninsula decreased by five times in February 2023 and continues to decline. Maybe the reason for this is that Finland joined some other NATO alliance, more friendly to Russia, than Ukraine wanted? But no. The reason is that Russia does not have enough troops or military equipment for this. Back in early 2023, the 200th Motorized Rifle Brigade, the 61st Separate Marine Brigade, and the 80th Arctic Motorized Rifle Brigade, which are now fighting in Ukraine, were withdrawn from the Kola Peninsula. Therefore, in order to somehow save his face, Putin had to once again lie that the entry of Finland and Sweden into NATO does not create an immediate threat to Russia.
https://24tv.ua/ru/chto-izvestno-ob-armii-finljandii-chto-budet-baltijskim-morem_n2289607

Another year or two of war in Ukraine and Putin will have to declare that the United States is the most friendly country for Russia...


What should we do about it? Should I contact Putin and let him know what's going on on the border with Finland?

In all cases, when faced with inconvenient questions, you have a habit of referring to the influence of the United States and its CIA. In the case of Finland and Sweden, the US has nothing to do with it. These states would still be outside NATO, but Russia's direct military aggression in Ukraine changed their attitude towards a neutral status and they also became concerned about their security. And the best guarantee of security for European states against the threat of Russian invasion is NATO membership. For many residents of Finland, the attack of Russia as part of the former USSR on Finland in 1939-1940 is still fresh in their memory. Therefore, like no one else, they immediately soberly assessed the growing military threat from Russia.

So, as a result of a direct and open military attack on Ukraine, Russia has 1,271.8 kilometers of land border with NATO member Finland. But here’s a paradox: instead of strengthening the border with this new NATO member, the number of Russian troops on the Kola Peninsula decreased by five times in February 2023 and continues to decline. Maybe the reason for this is that Finland joined some other NATO alliance, more friendly to Russia, than Ukraine wanted? But no. The reason is that Russia does not have enough troops or military equipment for this. Back in early 2023, the 200th Motorized Rifle Brigade, the 61st Separate Marine Brigade, and the 80th Arctic Motorized Rifle Brigade, which are now fighting in Ukraine, were withdrawn from the Kola Peninsula. Therefore, in order to somehow save his face, Putin had to once again lie that the entry of Finland and Sweden into NATO does not create an immediate threat to Russia.
https://24tv.ua/ru/chto-izvestno-ob-armii-finljandii-chto-budet-baltijskim-morem_n2289607

Another year or two of war in Ukraine and Putin will have to declare that the United States is the most friendly country for Russia...

Can you tell us in more detail who exactly promised Gorbachev as President of the USSR in 1990 that NATO would not expand eastward and under what circumstances this happened? If this happened, it happened in a private conversation and such a promise does not have any legal consequences.


That's correct. This was a promise in a private conversation.
Gorbachov turned out to be a traitor of Russia. That's why he accepted a promise in a private conversation.


Do, for example, the promises of Putin and other Russian officials that the Russian Federation will not attack Ukraine have any force? If such promises are not enshrined in the relevant agreements, these conversations mean nothing at all.


Well, as you can see Putin simply copies the same methods of deception that are used by the US. Why are you offended by this?  He's just copying US politicians.

Finland, which has a direct border with Russia of more than 1,200 kilometers, recently became a new NATO member. I am absolutely sure that all Finnish missiles are now aimed at Russia, and recently there was information that Finland wants to locate NATO bases on its territory. This is not even the illusory desire of Ukraine to join NATO by 2014, this is Finland’s direct participation in this alliance. Finland even closed its borders with Russia.

In this regard, the question is: where is Russia’s special military operation in Finland? Or is the reason for Russia’s attack on Ukraine something else?


This change of heart in Finland can be easily explained away by the fact that the US is secretly controlling almost all European countries by the European politicians that have been bought by Washington. Almost all European states including Finland are vassal states of the US.