Topic: The Blocksize War is still ongoing. (Read 705 times)

That's true, although the dynamic limit also discourage miner create very relative big block (compared with other recent block). And there are other concern such as block propagation time despite existence of fluffy block (Monero variant of Bitcoin's compact block) and how much it push Monero's node hardware.


FWIW the something else doesn't have to be altcoin. It could be sidechain or layer 2, although usually it's not decentralized and less popular than some altcoin.

mindrust, bitcoin does not need high fee's and stifle transaction counts to force fee's even higher..
bitcoin becomes more useful by letting more transactions per block where those extra transactions pay less than now, but where the extra transactions can then collectively total an amount that gives pools a free bonus

EG
instead of
$50 x 4000tx = $200k
there can be with a few code changes to give pools a $200k total bonus(they dont yet even need this amount of bonus)
$11.30 x 17,700tx = $200k
as you can see fee's can become cheaper and more transactions.. .. whilst still being the $200k idiots THINK pools deserve and need
(again for emphases pools do NOT NEED $200k in total fees now or anytime soon)
and these changes come even before scaling the blocksize. and just concern making the blocksize as is more efficient and actually utilised, counted, and validated to meet actual bitcoin purpose properly where every byte literally counts

you wanting to propose strategies of stifling transaction counts upgrades, limiting transactions and make them annoying slow and expensive does not help bitcoin. it only helps do what you now admit to "People who can afford to pay them high fees are paying it. People who can't, they don't have much of a choice... They use something else naturally"
you want bitcoin to be more expensive to transact to recruit people over to other networks by making them think "they dont have much of  choice"

but here is the thing, bitcoiners could have the choice, by scaling bitcoin.. by sorting bitcoins code out and make it useful for the masses and less centrally governed, less pcentral points of failure where by it actually works better then now, and be more open and better like it used to be

the only choice is not to naturally try another network

this topic and hundreds of topics like it are proof that people do want bitcoin to scale up and offer more transactions.. infact there are more bitcoin scaling topics than there are LTC/LN recruitment topics.. which shows people would rather scale bitcoin than abandon it for whatever network you prefer to promote

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as for medusa, well thats just a doomad alt account, acting too much like doomads cultish self to be a coincidence, its even more plagiarised repeated rhetoric of doomads words to just be an acolyte of his cult.. too much idiocy to even be taken seriously in any way
medusa offers nothing different to any conversation that doomads cult has not already said.

I don't want people to abandon bitcoin. People who can afford to pay them high fees are paying it. People who can't, they don't have much of a choice... They use something else naturally. They don't need my opinion on the subject, they can notice the situation as much as I do.

Do you think Bitcoin hodlers care about it anyway? Seriously. Price is going up, everybody is happy. Except you.

Bitcoin is working as intended, making people rich, killing the USD.

In fact, I decided to DCA on LTC after I saw that chart I posted earlier. It means I am joining them, they ain't joining me.

Does DooMAD sound reasonable too? 


He does not promote BCH.  He is just a big whiny keyboard warrior.  I just cannot believe the fact that he registered in 2012 and still supports these rookie ideas.  In a decentralized network, you cannot force change.  You can only implement change and see who follows you.  If there's a thing we learned from the blocksize war, it's this.

mindrust.. this topic is about BITCOIN and how to scale it in such ways including but not limited to the blocksize
its not a altcoin promotion topic
the solution to scale bitcoin is not to abandon it

YOU want people to abandon bitcoin.. so how about YOU abandon bitcoin because you seem to love other networks so much
take YOUR altcoin recruitment games over to the altcoin forum categories

You want bigger blocks. LTC has bigger blocks. Use LTC, problem solved. Stop being a moron for one second.

BTC is digital gold with small blocks. Accept it and move on.

Here are the choices you got:

a) Digital Cash (LTC)
b) Store of value/Digital Gold (BTC)



c) Keep crying bwaaa Core killed BTC bwaaa why not Core make blockz bigga

^ I feel like you'll always choose c) 

i am not even talking about BCH you idiot.. and stop thinking the answer to everything is "accept cores central governing politics or f**k off to another network"

how about you as a other network adorer move yourself to another network if you love them so much, then us actual bitcoiners can get back to discussing methods of scaling bitcoin.. without your silly other network promotion plans

you have no clue what you speak of and you only want to speak of doomads mantra of moving people to other networks while keeping core devs as a god like central government,, you want bitcoins fees to stay high stay bloated with meme junk and telling people to not transact on bitcoin because the issues affecting bitcoiners becomes promoting tools for your other network you love.

i still find it funny that the actual idiots that promote other networks should be the ones that should move themselves to other networks.. and stop trying to get bitcoiners to be the ones that should leave

actual bitcoiners like me want to sort out the central points of failure that have arisen in the last under a decade era, and get things sorted to actually scale BITCOIN

The OP and you also are promoting a different network other than Bitcoin. Remember BCH is not Bitcoin.

BCH is an altcoin just like LTC and XMR. I am indeed not happy with the transaction fees and there are lots of people like me. As you can see in the chart I posted earlier, many people who think like me have decided to use Litecoin.

If you (and the OP) don't like BTC or find it expensive like me use something else. Hell, use BCH if you want. Nobody's stopping you. Apparently though, most people decided on LTC.

Why don't you create a thread and educate people on BCH if you like it so much? Why do you think people like LTC more than BCH?

you sound too much like doomad, infact i think you are doomads alt account because its too similar/verbatim to not be doomad

what you dont get is that core can code things, BUT bitcoins consensus WAS hard consensus(and should be hardened again) where it required the network of USERS to be ready to understand a new features rules and format BEFORE the feature would activate. thus requiring the consent of the masses to activate a feature(consensus)
thus like years ago(pre may 2017) core had to propose things and get users onside to want to upgrade and be ready to THEN activate

however things have changed(after sumer 2017) due to the softening of the way things work where by core can now implement stuff without users mass consent (consensus)
because users nodes now dont need to understand new stuff and just let it be accepted into blocks and not reject blocks that have data that nodes do not understand..
things have become softened where it no longer requires a mass of full network nodes to fully validate all bytes of a block...

this trick has allowed core to do things like ad exploits which have caused headaches, congestion and fee peaks and bloat.
and now that all other brands that could have different other proposals outside of cores roadmap, have been REKT before they even got popular on the bitcoin network so no one bothers because they know they will get slammed by an army of cultish idiots screaming at them that they should create an altcoin instead of propose things on the bitcoin network, and how the bitcoin core moderation policy of all discussion platforms and other development has been a closed door to anyone not kissing the core monarchy ring and obeying the core path

learn what consensus did for the network before core softened it.. it will shock you(if you re not doomad) but im starting to think you are too similar in the narratives being verbatim to not be his alt account

You're not getting it, are you?  The roadmaps of Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash, Monero, Litecoin and so on are not determined by just the users, but by the developers.  People decide which protocols to join according to the available options and roadmaps.  You cannot force a developer implement what you have got in your head.  The developer is free to write any code he/she wants and you can do nothing about it other than not running it.  

That's how it's going to work, no matter how you feel about it.


If there's enough demand, Monero can deal with more onchain transactions compared to Bitcoin.  The dynamic block size limit can be increased to maximum of (60 KB, 2 * median size for the past 100 blocks).  Read more about it in here:  https://monero.stackexchange.com/a/74.

But don't forget Monero theoretically have lower TPS. While Monero have 2 minute block time, Monero TX is bigger and has smaller block size than Bitcoin. Looking at https://moneroj.net/blocksize/, current average Monero block size is only about 342KB.

look at you all 'if your not happy with bitcoin use another network'
funny how those promoting that no one should suggest bitcoin onchain scaling solutions, are the same people that admit they prefer to use other networks and promote other networks


you really need to drop the doomad rhetoric and instead research bitcoin
the purpose of hardened rules and consensus was that new features did not activate unless the masses consented by having network readiness for a change..
that got softened in recent years where now core can change things even before network readiness to understand new core features
LEARN BITCOIN not cult adoration narratives, and you will see what bitcoin was all about before the core religious crap stepped in

yes core have got a foothold and now able to do more crap without network readiness but learn bitcoin and learn why we should not let it stranglehold bitcoin further.. learn that a core government is a central point of failure that needs to be sorted out

and dont bother replying if you are just going to sound like something you read from the cult group..

learn the real purpose of bitcoin and its consensus mechanism that ensured network readiness to fully validate rules. learn why it was invented and learn what need to change to get back to a secure lean and stronger network thats not governed by core politics and its twit army of cultish idiots

bitcoin is code and code can do things without the need of dev politics and sheep following acolytes
there should not be a central point of failure commanding and governing it. where it requires a hierarchy of human political decisions in a centralised group such as core

the point of my question is..
we should get back to numerous full node reference client brands on the network(that dont get REKT just for not being in cores roadmap path), where there is no single(centralised) moderated monarchy of proposal politics, whereby proposals are not controlled/REKT if they are not cores master plan. and then people can decide which is best and the best option activates based on consensus(consent of the masses)..

things you need to research:
solution to the byzantine general issue
consensus
the fact that bitcoin can operate without a central core government, and should operate without a central core government

and no.. the only option is not "follow core or f**k off to another network", though idiots will try to say thats the only option(they prefer to ever see)

edit about below
funny to see them same guys promote other networks in a topic about bitcoin scaling/blocksize needs for bitcoin utility

Litecoin is currently the best choice as cryptocurrency that be used as a currency.

The price is quite stable and acceptable in a lot services, unlike Monero which get banned by government.
Safe enough and quite decentralized, unlike relying on centralized smart contract which usually get hacked once every few years.

Right now there's no problem with Litecoin, probably when it's already gain more attention, we might see ordinals inscriptions would attack Litecoin.

Or just use Monero and enjoy top anonymity levels and the lowest fees.


You do not need to make it any more apparent that you have no idea of what you are talking about.  Bitcoin is not around the masses voting for their most favored protocol.  It is about masses being given the alternative to select their most favored protocol.  Not change protocols.  Enter protocols.

Yes they weren't wrong indeed.

LTC is exactly like silver.

Look at gold (I mean actual gold, not btc), while gold is wandering around its ATH price(~$2200), silver (not ltc, actual silver) is nowhere near of its ATH (~$50). Gold to silver ratio today is 2183,86÷24,61=88.73. Silver has much more use in the industry than gold. More to that, silver becomes unusable once it is used. Gold can be as used again and again. You can use gold 10000 times and then use the same gold again for the 10001st time and it will function just like how it did in the last 10 thousand times. I heard that's not the case with silver.

We see the same picture between BTC and LTC. LTC is dominating the purchases but its price is not reflecting that demand from the users. People use it more, people need it more to buy stuff but its price is not going anywhere.

(stuff in red is exactly what doomad had been suggesting in his cult narrative of core adoration policy of them making decisions "someone" "them")
sounds like it was DOOMAD that suggested we should wait for someone (core) to collectively make the decisions because he does not believe in consensus(consent of the masses)

funny how he said many times for years that users dont get to tell core what to code and users just follow cores decisions, (his narrative: backward compatible (opt in (upgrade to latest core) after the activation by core) buzzwords) or users can make another network if they dont like cores decisions as the only choice to oppose core politics...(his narrative: follow core or f**k off)
yet now he says users get to choose collectively(consensus).. (i know him well enough that i think he is implying core is the 'collective',"them" as decision makers)
however if there is a true network node collective choice by the greater masses of bitcoin users..
choice based on which codebase/full node brand? which code base/brand will he not want to be REKT before people even get a choice?

seems he forgets his own narrative of which side he sits on..

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it is funny though how he says bitcoin cant be coded to do things (like manage its own hashrate difficulty using measurements/formulaes) and how bitcoin requires human politics aka a coding government of decision makers that are not the bitcoin users, but a central group(core) of lead maintainers

but the funny thing is bitcoin is code. bitcoin does and can use code to create formulae that look at measurements(reference again "hashrate difficulty") without ongoing need of core human politics.. but doomad doesnt believe in trusting code, he wants us to trust core devs and be obediant to core devs, not code that can do things autonomously

People always used to say that if BTC was digital gold, then LTC would be digital silver.  Guess they weren't wrong.  Proof of the power of both network effects and first-mover advantage.  Earlier coins are proving more resilient than later clones.  They've had more time to grow their userbase and provide greater utility because of that.  A 'snowball effect' in action.

If you are not happy with the high fees of btc, just use litecoin. Don’t waste your time with  bch which is a failed project. Litecoin has been dominating the on-chain purchases on bitpay for months now. It is clear that ltc is the ultimate cryptocurrency people want to use. If btc’s onchain was cheap, everyone would use it but it is not really cheap. Ltc is faster and cheaper. Yes it is a shitcoin, a btc copy pasta but guess what, that doesn’t stop ltc from being a great crypto.


Bch is done. The competition was over long time ago. LTC won.

It sounded as though you were suggesting that someone would calculate some costs, determine a block size based on those costs and that those securing the chain would just kinda go along with it.  But whatever you did or didn't say, I'm making it abundantly clear that it doesn't work like that. 

I somewhat disagree about increasing based on how much block is filled, considering previous Ordinals spam. But otherwise i actually support bigger block size.

I don't think any sane Bitcoiner would agree to pay $50 for as TX fee and i already run full node on more expensive hardware. Besides, even $100+ used computer like this one (4 core, 16GB) with extra $50 probably can handle at least 5x of current BTC block size/weight while still can be used for other light tasks.


I never state i make any call either. And i never say about implementing formula which determine maximum block size either.